From sly at victoria.tc.ca  Wed Apr  6 20:18:42 2005
From: sly at victoria.tc.ca (Andrew Sly)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 20:18:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PGCanada] James McIntyre
In-Reply-To: <7d574597050329072950798b4b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7d574597050329072950798b4b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0504062018090.8650@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca>


I've run into someone whose poetry I would love to include in
the PG Canada collection. James McIntyre, who is apparantly
"widely regarded as the worst poet in all of Canadian literature."
And his topic of choice was cheese.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_McIntyre

Andrew



From ag737 at freenet.carleton.ca  Wed Apr  6 20:35:01 2005
From: ag737 at freenet.carleton.ca (Wallace J.McLean)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 23:35:01 -0400
Subject: [PGCanada] James McIntyre
Message-ID: <1ef65c1ef235.1ef2351ef65c@ncf.ca>


Ah.... the cheese-poet.

He's been the subject of a PGDP discussion thread. One of his books was 
cleared in August 2003 and is listed in-progress. 

----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Sly <sly at victoria.tc.ca>
Date: Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:18 pm
Subject: [PGCanada] James McIntyre

> 
> I've run into someone whose poetry I would love to include in
> the PG Canada collection. James McIntyre, who is apparantly
> "widely regarded as the worst poet in all of Canadian literature."
> And his topic of choice was cheese.



From ag737 at freenet.carleton.ca  Wed Apr  6 20:36:53 2005
From: ag737 at freenet.carleton.ca (Wallace J.McLean)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 23:36:53 -0400
Subject: [PGCanada] James McIntyre
Message-ID: <1ef14e1e95a5.1e95a51ef14e@ncf.ca>

http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/1/4/2/9/14293/14293-h/14293-h.htm#Page_11


From sly at victoria.tc.ca  Wed Apr  6 23:19:08 2005
From: sly at victoria.tc.ca (Andrew Sly)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 23:19:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PGCanada] James McIntyre
In-Reply-To: <1ef65c1ef235.1ef2351ef65c@ncf.ca>
References: <1ef65c1ef235.1ef2351ef65c@ncf.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0504062316370.19732@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca>


Ok, good. The prospects for Canadian dairy-related
poetry are hopeful then. :)
(That sounds a conversation topic for some CBC radio
program.)

Andrew

On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, Wallace J.McLean wrote:

>
> Ah.... the cheese-poet.
>
> He's been the subject of a PGDP discussion thread. One of his books was
> cleared in August 2003 and is listed in-progress.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Andrew Sly <sly at victoria.tc.ca>
> Date: Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:18 pm
> Subject: [PGCanada] James McIntyre
>
> >
> > I've run into someone whose poetry I would love to include in
> > the PG Canada collection. James McIntyre, who is apparantly
> > "widely regarded as the worst poet in all of Canadian literature."
> > And his topic of choice was cheese.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Project Gutenberg of Canada
> Website: http://www.projectgutenberg.ca/
> List: pgcanada at lists.pglaf.org
> Archives: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/pgcanada/
>


From jenzed at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 08:15:22 2005
From: jenzed at gmail.com (Jen Zed)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 08:15:22 -0700
Subject: [PGCanada] James McIntyre
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0504062316370.19732@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca>
References: <1ef65c1ef235.1ef2351ef65c@ncf.ca>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0504062316370.19732@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca>
Message-ID: <7d5745970504070815156fa5cf@mail.gmail.com>

On Apr 6, 2005 11:19 PM, Andrew Sly <sly at victoria.tc.ca> wrote:
> Ok, good. The prospects for Canadian dairy-related
> poetry are hopeful then. :)

In my dreamier dreams of how the web site is going to work, there will
be a prominent place for highlighting the works of Canada's
illustrious cheese poets. :)

As an update, my work on the site is coming along. I've got some
simple wire-frames posted on the wiki:
http://www.jenzed.com/pgcawiki/pmwiki.php?n=Main.Wireframes. I'd
appreciate people's comments and ideas about how they'd like the site
to look / work / etc. Please feel free to post thoughts either here or
on the wiki.

Currently, I'm experimenting with Drupal (http://www.drupal.org) as
our front-end and  content-management system, but I've yet to arrive
at the stage where I can validate that it will meet our needs. I
expect that I'll have a prototype up within two or three weeks.


jen.


From sly at victoria.tc.ca  Thu Apr  7 09:37:26 2005
From: sly at victoria.tc.ca (Andrew Sly)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:37:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PGCanada] Plans for website
In-Reply-To: <7d5745970504070815156fa5cf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1ef65c1ef235.1ef2351ef65c@ncf.ca>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0504062316370.19732@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca>
	<7d5745970504070815156fa5cf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0504070920270.29305@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca>


I must admit that I am partial to the idea of a simple
interface that anyone can come to and get the text he
wants. I'm not particularly attached to the idea of
presenting a text (like the German Projekt Gutenberg-DE)
in one part of the screen and surrounding it with
other information.

While we are dreaming, a dream of mine is to have a
simple, basic, stable interface to the collection which
can be translated into multiple languages. (Anything
that changes too often would likely pose a problem
in requiring updates to different language versions.)

Andrew

On Thu, 7 Apr 2005, Jen Zed wrote:

> As an update, my work on the site is coming along. I've got some
> simple wire-frames posted on the wiki:
> http://www.jenzed.com/pgcawiki/pmwiki.php?n=Main.Wireframes. I'd
> appreciate people's comments and ideas about how they'd like the site
> to look / work / etc. Please feel free to post thoughts either here or
> on the wiki.
>
> Currently, I'm experimenting with Drupal (http://www.drupal.org) as
> our front-end and  content-management system, but I've yet to arrive
> at the stage where I can validate that it will meet our needs. I
> expect that I'll have a prototype up within two or three weeks.
>


From jenzed at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 09:00:10 2005
From: jenzed at gmail.com (Jen Zed)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 09:00:10 -0700
Subject: [PGCanada] Re: Plans for website
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0504070920270.29305@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca>
References: <1ef65c1ef235.1ef2351ef65c@ncf.ca>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0504062316370.19732@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca>
	<7d5745970504070815156fa5cf@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0504070920270.29305@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca>
Message-ID: <7d5745970504080900638f1fe5@mail.gmail.com>

hmmmm...yeah, I should probably think of the site architecture as
"core" (book search / book display) and "extended" (accounts,
favourites, tagging, etc). The "extended" interface could be enabled
or disabled by the webmaster or the user (or based on the language
selected on the portal page) ... more on the wiki:
http://www.jenzed.com/pgcawiki/pmwiki.php?n=Main.PortalPlan

Good feedback, Andrew - thanks for preventing me from riding madly off
in all directions. :)


jen.

On Apr 7, 2005 9:37 AM, Andrew Sly <sly at victoria.tc.ca> wrote:
> 
> I must admit that I am partial to the idea of a simple
> interface that anyone can come to and get the text he
> wants. I'm not particularly attached to the idea of
> presenting a text (like the German Projekt Gutenberg-DE)
> in one part of the screen and surrounding it with
> other information.
> 
> While we are dreaming, a dream of mine is to have a
> simple, basic, stable interface to the collection which
> can be translated into multiple languages. (Anything
> that changes too often would likely pose a problem
> in requiring updates to different language versions.)
> 
> Andrew
> 
> On Thu, 7 Apr 2005, Jen Zed wrote:
> 
> > As an update, my work on the site is coming along. I've got some
> > simple wire-frames posted on the wiki:
> > http://www.jenzed.com/pgcawiki/pmwiki.php?n=Main.Wireframes. I'd
> > appreciate people's comments and ideas about how they'd like the site
> > to look / work / etc. Please feel free to post thoughts either here or
> > on the wiki.
> >
> > Currently, I'm experimenting with Drupal (http://www.drupal.org) as
> > our front-end and  content-management system, but I've yet to arrive
> > at the stage where I can validate that it will meet our needs. I
> > expect that I'll have a prototype up within two or three weeks.
> >
>


From sly at victoria.tc.ca  Fri Apr  8 12:12:55 2005
From: sly at victoria.tc.ca (Andrew Sly)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 12:12:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PGCanada] Re: Plans for website
In-Reply-To: <7d5745970504080900638f1fe5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1ef65c1ef235.1ef2351ef65c@ncf.ca>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0504062316370.19732@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca>
	<7d5745970504070815156fa5cf@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0504070920270.29305@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca>
	<7d5745970504080900638f1fe5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0504081205130.1953@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca>


I've thought about this a little more. And yes, favourites,
tagging, and "community" features are good _if people want them_.

But on the other hand, I have many times taken a look at a
potentially interesting web site, only to see that I have to
register or create an account to access any content, and then
I leave without looking any further.

So i would suggest that free un-encumbered access to the
texts in the collection is needed.

Andrew

On Fri, 8 Apr 2005, Jen Zed wrote:

> hmmmm...yeah, I should probably think of the site architecture as
> "core" (book search / book display) and "extended" (accounts,
> favourites, tagging, etc). The "extended" interface could be enabled
> or disabled by the webmaster or the user (or based on the language
> selected on the portal page) ... more on the wiki:
> http://www.jenzed.com/pgcawiki/pmwiki.php?n=Main.PortalPlan
>
> Good feedback, Andrew - thanks for preventing me from riding madly off
> in all directions. :)
>


From jenzed at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 12:39:39 2005
From: jenzed at gmail.com (Jen Zed)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 12:39:39 -0700
Subject: [PGCanada] Re: Plans for website
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0504081205130.1953@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca>
References: <1ef65c1ef235.1ef2351ef65c@ncf.ca>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0504062316370.19732@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca>
	<7d5745970504070815156fa5cf@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0504070920270.29305@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca>
	<7d5745970504080900638f1fe5@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0504081205130.1953@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca>
Message-ID: <7d57459705040812395bf06716@mail.gmail.com>

Oh, it was *never* my intention to make registration mandatory.
Absolutely not. No way. Registration will only be required if people
want to use user-based features, like favourites, bookmarks, tagging,
discussions, etc.


jen.

On Apr 8, 2005 12:12 PM, Andrew Sly <sly at victoria.tc.ca> wrote:
> 
> I've thought about this a little more. And yes, favourites,
> tagging, and "community" features are good _if people want them_.
> 
> But on the other hand, I have many times taken a look at a
> potentially interesting web site, only to see that I have to
> register or create an account to access any content, and then
> I leave without looking any further.
> 
> So i would suggest that free un-encumbered access to the
> texts in the collection is needed.
> 
> Andrew
> 
> On Fri, 8 Apr 2005, Jen Zed wrote:
> 
> > hmmmm...yeah, I should probably think of the site architecture as
> > "core" (book search / book display) and "extended" (accounts,
> > favourites, tagging, etc). The "extended" interface could be enabled
> > or disabled by the webmaster or the user (or based on the language
> > selected on the portal page) ... more on the wiki:
> > http://www.jenzed.com/pgcawiki/pmwiki.php?n=Main.PortalPlan
> >
> > Good feedback, Andrew - thanks for preventing me from riding madly off
> > in all directions. :)
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Project Gutenberg of Canada
> Website: http://www.projectgutenberg.ca/
> List: pgcanada at lists.pglaf.org
> Archives: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/pgcanada/
>


From sly at victoria.tc.ca  Sat Apr  9 01:55:17 2005
From: sly at victoria.tc.ca (Andrew Sly)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 01:55:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PGCanada] Fixing typos
In-Reply-To: <7d5745970504080900638f1fe5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1ef65c1ef235.1ef2351ef65c@ncf.ca>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0504062316370.19732@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca>
	<7d5745970504070815156fa5cf@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0504070920270.29305@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca>
	<7d5745970504080900638f1fe5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0504090153170.4570@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca>

Comments regarding this (from the wiki):

     * By fostering a community, the division between content production
       and content acquisition could be reduced: "Report a typo" on the
       book display page would encourage a user, perhaps, to think about
       contributing on a larger scale (for example, by proofing a page).

Jim Tinsely, who has dealt with making corrections to PG texts for years,
and at the present deals with most of the emails sent to the PG "errata"
list, has reported that "about half" of the submitted "corrections" are
actually right in the etext. That is, the e-text itself correctly represents
the original, and the suggested correction is in error.

There are apparently some spots in Mark Twain's writing which were
intentionally misspelled by the author for the effect in the story,
and which are regularly reported as "errors".

Also, sometimes people will try to "fix" older spellings of words
such as Tokio--Tokyo; shew--show; fyle--file; etc.

It takes a very patient volunteer to work through these suggested
corrections, go about fixing those that are obvious, send messages
back saying "thanks for your help, but..." for those mentioned above,
and do further investigation/guessing for those in a grey area.



Andrew



From jenzed at gmail.com  Sat Apr  9 08:19:24 2005
From: jenzed at gmail.com (Jen Zed)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 08:19:24 -0700
Subject: [PGCanada] Fixing typos
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0504090153170.4570@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca>
References: <1ef65c1ef235.1ef2351ef65c@ncf.ca>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0504062316370.19732@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca>
	<7d5745970504070815156fa5cf@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0504070920270.29305@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca>
	<7d5745970504080900638f1fe5@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0504090153170.4570@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca>
Message-ID: <7d574597050409081963458884@mail.gmail.com>

Sure, auditing corrections is a big, thankless grunt-work job (sounds
a little like DP). :) I don't think that should make us wary of taking
typo submissions, though; the submissions can go into a queue and get
dealt with as we have time. Also, I bet we could reduce the number of
typo submissions if we could give users easy access to the the
original scans. For example, maybe the "Report a typo" button could
bring up the OCR of the original page. (This might be possible with
hooks into James' UniBook - not sure. We'll see.) Also, on the same
page, we should include an explanation of the (PG) proofing standards
regarding typos - fix those that are obvious printing errors but
preserve original spellings.

I'll add this discussion to the plans for this function (after I write
a plan for this function). :)


jen.



On Apr 9, 2005 1:55 AM, Andrew Sly <sly at victoria.tc.ca> wrote:
> Comments regarding this (from the wiki):
> 
>      * By fostering a community, the division between content production
>        and content acquisition could be reduced: "Report a typo" on the
>        book display page would encourage a user, perhaps, to think about
>        contributing on a larger scale (for example, by proofing a page).
> 
> Jim Tinsely, who has dealt with making corrections to PG texts for years,
> and at the present deals with most of the emails sent to the PG "errata"
> list, has reported that "about half" of the submitted "corrections" are
> actually right in the etext. That is, the e-text itself correctly represents
> the original, and the suggested correction is in error.
> 
> There are apparently some spots in Mark Twain's writing which were
> intentionally misspelled by the author for the effect in the story,
> and which are regularly reported as "errors".
> 
> Also, sometimes people will try to "fix" older spellings of words
> such as Tokio--Tokyo; shew--show; fyle--file; etc.
> 
> It takes a very patient volunteer to work through these suggested
> corrections, go about fixing those that are obvious, send messages
> back saying "thanks for your help, but..." for those mentioned above,
> and do further investigation/guessing for those in a grey area.
> 
> Andrew
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Project Gutenberg of Canada
> Website: http://www.projectgutenberg.ca/
> List: pgcanada at lists.pglaf.org
> Archives: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/pgcanada/
>


From jon at noring.name  Sat Apr  9 09:22:40 2005
From: jon at noring.name (Jon Noring)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:22:40 -0600
Subject: [PGCanada] Fixing typos
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0504090153170.4570@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca>
References: <1ef65c1ef235.1ef2351ef65c@ncf.ca>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0504062316370.19732@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca>
	<7d5745970504070815156fa5cf@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0504070920270.29305@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca>
	<7d5745970504080900638f1fe5@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0504090153170.4570@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca>
Message-ID: <155276343.20050409102240@noring.name>

> Comments regarding this (from the wiki):
>
>      * By fostering a community, the division between content production
>        and content acquisition could be reduced: "Report a typo" on the
>        book display page would encourage a user, perhaps, to think about
>        contributing on a larger scale (for example, by proofing a page).
>
> Jim Tinsely, who has dealt with making corrections to PG texts for years,
> and at the present deals with most of the emails sent to the PG "errata"
> list, has reported that "about half" of the submitted "corrections" are
> actually right in the etext. That is, the e-text itself correctly represents
> the original, and the suggested correction is in error.
>
> There are apparently some spots in Mark Twain's writing which were
> intentionally misspelled by the author for the effect in the story,
> and which are regularly reported as "errors".
>
> Also, sometimes people will try to "fix" older spellings of words
> such as Tokio--Tokyo; shew--show; fyle--file; etc.
>
> It takes a very patient volunteer to work through these suggested
> corrections, go about fixing those that are obvious, send messages
> back saying "thanks for your help, but..." for those mentioned above,
> and do further investigation/guessing for those in a grey area.

This shows the need and the benefit of having the original page scans
available to readers so those who submit errata can first check with
the original.

Jon



From pmj at jciconsult.com  Sat Apr  9 05:19:22 2005
From: pmj at jciconsult.com (Paul M. Jacobson)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 08:19:22 -0400
Subject: [PGCanada] Fixing typos
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0504090153170.4570@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca>
Message-ID: <BAYC1-PASMTP03F3E27A1BCE9E741A97CBE2300@cez.ice>

 Can I suggest in your new site, and possibly in the pdg site, that you
consider a prominent discussion of this with examples.  However, that does
not excuse some obvious typos that I have found in the books downloaded from
blackmask and manybooks.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: pgcanada-bounces at lists.pglaf.org 
>[mailto:pgcanada-bounces at lists.pglaf.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Sly
>Sent: April 9, 2005 4:55 AM
>To: Project Gutenberg of Canada
>Subject: [PGCanada] Fixing typos
>
>Comments regarding this (from the wiki):
>
>     * By fostering a community, the division between content 
>production
>       and content acquisition could be reduced: "Report a typo" on the
>       book display page would encourage a user, perhaps, to 
>think about
>       contributing on a larger scale (for example, by 
>proofing a page).
>
>Jim Tinsely, who has dealt with making corrections to PG texts 
>for years, and at the present deals with most of the emails 
>sent to the PG "errata"
>list, has reported that "about half" of the submitted 
>"corrections" are actually right in the etext. That is, the 
>e-text itself correctly represents the original, and the 
>suggested correction is in error.
>
>There are apparently some spots in Mark Twain's writing which 
>were intentionally misspelled by the author for the effect in 
>the story, and which are regularly reported as "errors".
>
>Also, sometimes people will try to "fix" older spellings of 
>words such as Tokio--Tokyo; shew--show; fyle--file; etc.
>
>It takes a very patient volunteer to work through these 
>suggested corrections, go about fixing those that are obvious, 
>send messages back saying "thanks for your help, but..." for 
>those mentioned above, and do further investigation/guessing 
>for those in a grey area.
>
>
>
>Andrew
>
>_______________________________________________
>Project Gutenberg of Canada
>Website: http://www.projectgutenberg.ca/
>List: pgcanada at lists.pglaf.org
>Archives: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/pgcanada/
>
>



From jenzed at gmail.com  Wed Apr 13 11:15:12 2005
From: jenzed at gmail.com (Jen Zed)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:15:12 -0700
Subject: [PGCanada] DP: interesting TEI developments
Message-ID: <7d57459705041311154fd04bf5@mail.gmail.com>

Some very interesting developments over on DP regarding using TEI
markup and sourcing:
http://www.pgdp.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7753 (Check out the latest
comments on the thread. jhutch is a deity.)

Note that if you click "judith.xml" link in the post (the sample TEI
source file) you might get an error if your session can't talk to the
TEI DTD on www.tie-c.org (at least, I think that's what's going on -
the error isn't verbose enough to be sure). Don't sweat it - just
right-click the judith.xml link, save it to disk, and open it in a
text editor. sweeeeet!



jen.


From hart at pglaf.org  Mon Apr 18 08:05:04 2005
From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael Hart)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 08:05:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PGCanada] How To Forward Articles
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0504180803260.24508@pglaf.org>


Sometimes I find articles concerning Canandian copyright, etc.,
that I would like to forward to Project Gutenberg of Cananda,
but they might be quite long.

Checking to see if there is anyone I could send them to to make
the decision as to whether such things should go to the whole list.

Thanks!!!

michael


From jenzed at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 07:51:13 2005
From: jenzed at gmail.com (Jen Zed)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 07:51:13 -0700
Subject: [PGCanada] How To Forward Articles
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0504180803260.24508@pglaf.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0504180803260.24508@pglaf.org>
Message-ID: <7d574597050419075125625fd6@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Michael. You can send them to me, and I'll forward highlights to
the list. Andrew, would you like to look at them too?


jen.

On 4/18/05, Michael Hart <hart at pglaf.org> wrote:
> 
> Sometimes I find articles concerning Canandian copyright, etc.,
> that I would like to forward to Project Gutenberg of Cananda,
> but they might be quite long.
> 
> Checking to see if there is anyone I could send them to to make
> the decision as to whether such things should go to the whole list.
> 
> Thanks!!!
> 
> michael
> _______________________________________________
> Project Gutenberg of Canada
> Website: http://www.projectgutenberg.ca/
> List: pgcanada at lists.pglaf.org
> Archives: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/pgcanada/
>


From jenzed at gmail.com  Fri Apr 22 07:59:50 2005
From: jenzed at gmail.com (Jen Zed)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 07:59:50 -0700
Subject: [PGCanada] General IP Issues: Geist on P2P
Message-ID: <7d574597050422075963c01c86@mail.gmail.com>

Michael Hart sent me an interesting article by Michael Geist on the
real effect of P2P file copy and music industry revenues. The entire
article is at:

http://firstmonday.org/issues/issue10_4/geist/

Abstract:

Canada is in the midst of a contentious copyright reform with
advocates for stronger copyright protection maintaining that the
Internet has led to widespread infringement that has harmed the
economic interests of Canadian artists. The Canadian Recording
Industry Association (CRIA) has emerged as the leading proponent
of copyright reform, claiming that peer?to?peer file sharing has
led to billions in lost sales in Canada.

This article examines CRIA's claims by conducting an analysis of
industry figures. It concludes that loss claims have been greatly
exaggerated and challenges the contention that recent sales
declines are primarily attributable to file?sharing activities.
Moreover, the article assesses the financial impact of declining
sales on Canadian artists, concluding that revenue collected
through a private copying levy system already adequately
compensates Canadian artists for the private copying that occurs
on peer?to?peer networks.


Thanks, Michael!


jen.

From jenzed at gmail.com  Fri Apr 22 08:28:38 2005
From: jenzed at gmail.com (Jen Zed)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 08:28:38 -0700
Subject: [PGCanada] Toronto Internet Archive kudos and Error Feedback
Message-ID: <7d574597050422082864910698@mail.gmail.com>

Michael Hart forwarded an email to me regarding the Toronto Internet
Archive and the "addictive" quality of fast feedback loops. (Email
text included below.) Further to our conversation a couple of week
ago, maybe a process of fast-feedback error correction would look
something like this:

1. The HTML version on the PG Canada site could have "live" links to
the associated original page. (DP's jhutch's
http://www.pgdp.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14719 HTML output from TEI
puts page numbers along the side of the text.)

2. When a reader spots an error, they click the page link. (They must
be logged in, and perhaps have to validate themselves via one of those
boxes that display obfuscated letters.)  If they validate, it brings
up an interface similar to the DP proofing interface (scan above,
(HTML) text below). They make the correction.

3. On save, the correction is written the the HTML file but styled in
a way to differentiate from the other text. A roll-over pop-up shows
the user who made the correction and the original text. Therefore,
corrections would be displayed to all readers, but it would be obvious
that their post-publication corrections.

4. Editors, working from a dynamic list of pages with "pending"
corrections, double-check the corrections, and, if they're okay, port
the changes to the source document, update the version history, and
re-generate the output versions and the archive file.

I like this idea because it tightens the relationship between readers
and proofers - it makes it easy for a reader to cross the line into
proofing. (And, of course, I like the error-correction aspect very
much.)

=======================

Email Excerpt:

> There are great differences between the Toronto branch of
> Internet Archive and the others. In the Dictionary of National
> Biography there are scans that are so faint they can not be
> read. Others have noted the complete jumble of the indexing
> system. Authors appear several times with erroneous spellings of
> their names; often under their given name rather than their
> family name.
>
> I have on the other hand found the Toronto books to be of very
> high quality.

This is my impression too.  There are some French dictionaries or
encyclopedias scanned in Toronto that look so nice I wish I spoke
French.

I think that the early parts of the Internet Archive's "Million
Books Project" have one mistake in common with the early Project
Gutenberg, and that is too long feedback loops.  One thing we can
learn from Wikipedia (and PGDP) is that short (fast) feedback
loops are both addictive (so it draws many contributors) and
productive (so that it produces high quality contents).  You spot
an error, you fix it, the new version is published.  That is a
matter of seconds on Wikipedia.  For PG's e-texts, you have to
submit an error report by e-mail, and for IA's Million Books you
fill out an error report on the web, but then you can only hope
that some editor will attend to it. Any means to speed this
process up would be a great help.

=======================


jen.


From jenzed at gmail.com  Fri Apr 22 08:39:34 2005
From: jenzed at gmail.com (Jen Zed)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 08:39:34 -0700
Subject: [PGCanada] Last Call for Web Hosting
Message-ID: <7d574597050422083953e05109@mail.gmail.com>

Does anyone know anyone in a position to donate web hosting to us? I'd
like to move forward on getting permanent space - my personal sandbox
is getting kind of cramped, and I'm annoyed at the big, dumb,
mass-volume hosting company I'm working with. We need Linux, PHP,
MySQL - the usual stuff.


jen.


From bill.shiell at adultupgrading.net  Fri Apr 22 10:13:43 2005
From: bill.shiell at adultupgrading.net (Bill Shiell)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:13:43 -0600
Subject: [PGCanada] Last Call for Web Hosting
In-Reply-To: <7d574597050422083953e05109@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7d574597050422083953e05109@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1114190023.426930c7ad59a@www.adultupgrading.net>

Tell us more. How much space? How much bandwidth?

Quoting Jen Zed <jenzed at gmail.com>:

| Does anyone know anyone in a position to donate web hosting to us? I'd
| like to move forward on getting permanent space - my personal sandbox
| is getting kind of cramped, and I'm annoyed at the big, dumb,
| mass-volume hosting company I'm working with. We need Linux, PHP,
| MySQL - the usual stuff.



From jenzed at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 20:37:03 2005
From: jenzed at gmail.com (Jen Zed)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 20:37:03 -0700
Subject: [PGCanada] Last Call for Web Hosting
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0504231345450.24350@calcutta.flora.ca>
References: <7d574597050422083953e05109@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0504231345450.24350@calcutta.flora.ca>
Message-ID: <7d57459705042420376d559d8d@mail.gmail.com>

She shoots...she scores. :)

We need PHP and MySQL; probably 10 GB of space would get us going -
although, if we make page scans available (which I think we should),
the storage requirements will increase a lot. (I'd be willing to kick
in the cost of a drive to help subsidize this when the time comes.)

I'd like to run PmWiki
(http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/PmWiki/Requirements), which is powering
our current wiki at http://www.jenzed.com/pgcawiki/pmwiki.php - it's
really lightweight. I'd also like to run a CMS - maybe Drupal
(http://www.drupal.org/), although I'm still not sure if that's the
best fit for PG-CA. Drupal (and probably most CMSs) will require some
"special" MySQL permissions - like the ability for users to do a LOCK
TABLE. (The main reason I've hit the wall with my personal retail web
space provider - and therefore don't know if Drupal will work for us -
is that they won't allow this permission to be granted to users.)

I completely understand your reservations regarding bandwidth. I
suspect and hope, though, that when (if) our bandwidth demands get too
big, it'll mean we're big enough to get sponsors.

thx!


jen.


On 4/23/05, Russell McOrmond <russell at flora.ca> wrote:
> 
>    Let me know what is needed.  I can offer to help get things started
> under the understanding that if bandwidth gets too high then we'd need to
> look for other sponsors (funding, bandwidth, whatever).
> 
>    I currently run a number of related sites...  Most of the volunteer
> stuff can be seen at http://newdelhi.flora.ca/
> 
> 
> On Fri, 22 Apr 2005, Jen Zed wrote:
> 
> > Does anyone know anyone in a position to donate web hosting to us? I'd
> > like to move forward on getting permanent space - my personal sandbox
> > is getting kind of cramped, and I'm annoyed at the big, dumb,
> > mass-volume hosting company I'm working with. We need Linux, PHP,
> > MySQL - the usual stuff.
> >
> >
> > jen.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Project Gutenberg of Canada
> > Website: http://www.projectgutenberg.ca/
> > List: pgcanada at lists.pglaf.org
> > Archives: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/pgcanada/
> >
> 
> --
>   Russell McOrmond, Internet Consultant: <http://www.flora.ca/>
>   Boycott legacy Motion Picture and Recording Industries from April 24-30
>            http://www.digital-copyright.ca/node/view/786
>


From russell at flora.ca  Mon Apr 25 06:39:50 2005
From: russell at flora.ca (Russell McOrmond)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:39:50 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PGCanada] Last Call for Web Hosting
In-Reply-To: <7d57459705042420376d559d8d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7d574597050422083953e05109@mail.gmail.com> 
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0504231345450.24350@calcutta.flora.ca>
	<7d57459705042420376d559d8d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0504250922480.16094@calcutta.flora.ca>


On Sun, 24 Apr 2005, Jen Zed wrote:

> She shoots...she scores. :)
>
> We need PHP and MySQL; probably 10 GB of space would get us going -
> although, if we make page scans available (which I think we should),
> the storage requirements will increase a lot. (I'd be willing to kick
> in the cost of a drive to help subsidize this when the time comes.)

   If you go to http://newdelhi.flora.ca/ you will see a list of the 
virtual servers (Apache style) that you would be sharing that server with. 
You will see many other LAMP sites including Drupal sites.

   Do you know if all the applications you would be wanting run under PHP 
safe mode?  Some applications are picky about this, but most are not. 
The other question is whether you would need shell access, or whether FTP 
access (chroot'd) would be sufficient.

   On that server I'm not using any of the OS vitalization techniques 
(such as User Mode Linux), only Apache virtual servers for web.  This 
means I rely on FTP's chroot() and php safe mode to keep each virtual 
server from playing with each other's files.


   If you need SSH and other type of access then we need to put you on a 
different server under UML.  With the election coming up soon this would 
become a bad time to try to set this up as I'm focusing on other server 
upgrades/configuration at the moment.

> Drupal (and probably most CMSs) will require some "special" MySQL 
> permissions - like the ability for users to do a LOCK TABLE. (The main 
> reason I've hit the wall with my personal retail web space provider - 
> and therefore don't know if Drupal will work for us - is that they won't 
> allow this permission to be granted to users.)

   Interesting.  I don't restrict things that way for our MySQL accounts. 
We set up a unique user/password and create a database where that userID 
has full permissions (including GRANT) on that database.  If you also want 
an account with less permissions that can be done as well, but I never saw 
the need for not giving a full-privileged MySQL account.

> I completely understand your reservations regarding bandwidth. I
> suspect and hope, though, that when (if) our bandwidth demands get too
> big, it'll mean we're big enough to get sponsors.

   Agreed.

   It can also grow in stages depending on what is required.

-- 
  Russell McOrmond, Internet Consultant: <http://www.flora.ca/>
  Boycott legacy Motion Picture and Recording Industries from April 24-30
           http://www.digital-copyright.ca/node/view/786


From jenzed at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 08:04:27 2005
From: jenzed at gmail.com (Jen Zed)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:04:27 -0700
Subject: [PGCanada] Last Call for Web Hosting
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0504250922480.16094@calcutta.flora.ca>
References: <7d574597050422083953e05109@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0504231345450.24350@calcutta.flora.ca>
	<7d57459705042420376d559d8d@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0504250922480.16094@calcutta.flora.ca>
Message-ID: <7d5745970504250804752e4553@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/25/05, Russell McOrmond <russell at flora.ca> wrote:

>    Do you know if all the applications you would be wanting run under PHP
> safe mode?  Some applications are picky about this, but most are not.
> The other question is whether you would need shell access, or whether FTP
> access (chroot'd) would be sufficient.

It seems like safe mode should be okay for PmWiki
(http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/PmWiki/PmWikiFeatures); however, some
folks say they've had to do a manual chmod to allow for new file
creation (http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/PmWiki/FilePermissions). There
may be other issues - we'll see how it goes.

Regarding the CMS, if other sites that you host use Drupal, then I
imagine we'll be fine.

FTP access will be fine - I don't forsee an immediate need for shell access. 

> > Drupal (and probably most CMSs) will require some "special" MySQL
> > permissions - like the ability for users to do a LOCK TABLE.

>    Interesting.  I don't restrict things that way for our MySQL accounts.

Yeah, the Drupal community's take on the restriction is that it's dumb
security via a sledgehammer rather than smart security via a tuning
fork.


jen.


From jenzed at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 09:51:12 2005
From: jenzed at gmail.com (Jen Zed)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:51:12 -0700
Subject: [PGCanada] Last Call for Web Hosting
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0504251124120.17036@calcutta.flora.ca>
References: <7d574597050422083953e05109@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0504231345450.24350@calcutta.flora.ca>
	<7d57459705042420376d559d8d@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0504250922480.16094@calcutta.flora.ca>
	<7d5745970504250804752e4553@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0504251124120.17036@calcutta.flora.ca>
Message-ID: <7d57459705042509515c158b0d@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/25/05, Russell McOrmond <russell at flora.ca> wrote:
> 
>    Do you have a domain name you will be pointing at this site?  

James Linden registered http://www.projectgutenberg.ca/. Until
recently, this pointed to a "coming soon" page, but now the URL is
dead (and maybe his email address at this domain too?)

James? Are you out there? Can you transfer / redirect the domain to
the space on Russell's server?

>  This won't be a
> hands-off thing, so you will be able to contact me to do things like that
> without problem.   I'm offering the space as I think the project is quite
> important.
[...]
>    I also will repond differently to legal threats than other ISPs might --
> I won't accept notice-and-takedown on copyright, but instead
> notice-and-notice-to-customer-and-CIPPIC.ca ;-)

Terrific. That's such a benefit for a project like this - having a
host who understands and cares about the project.


jen.


From russell at flora.ca  Mon Apr 25 12:46:47 2005
From: russell at flora.ca (Russell McOrmond)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:46:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [PGCanada] Last Call for Web Hosting
In-Reply-To: <7d57459705042509515c158b0d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7d574597050422083953e05109@mail.gmail.com> 
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0504231345450.24350@calcutta.flora.ca> 
	<7d57459705042420376d559d8d@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0504250922480.16094@calcutta.flora.ca>
	<7d5745970504250804752e4553@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0504251124120.17036@calcutta.flora.ca>
	<7d57459705042509515c158b0d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0504251535030.17036@calcutta.flora.ca>


On Mon, 25 Apr 2005, Jen Zed wrote:

> On 4/25/05, Russell McOrmond <russell at flora.ca> wrote:
>>
>>    Do you have a domain name you will be pointing at this site?
>
> James Linden registered http://www.projectgutenberg.ca/. Until
> recently, this pointed to a "coming soon" page, but now the URL is
> dead (and maybe his email address at this domain too?)


I see: http://www.openconcept.ca/whois.php?q=projectgutenberg.ca
http://www.dnsreport.com/tools/dnsreport.ch?domain=projectgutenberg.ca

   Seems it can't connect to the mail servers, and I tried and I can't 
connect to the webserver.

   If he is already using @projectgutenberg.ca , then before any DNS is 
switched over I would need to have the email forwarding table.  What we do 
is have a text file on the website which our email system automatically 
loads which has the mapping of username at domain to where it is then sent 
to.


> James? Are you out there? Can you transfer / redirect the domain to
> the space on Russell's server?

   We need to coordinate this if any services are already active to make 
sure that this is an "addition" and nothing already working gets lost in 
the shuffle.

   Would James be considered the technical lead for the project?

>>    I also will repond differently to legal threats than other ISPs might --
>> I won't accept notice-and-takedown on copyright, but instead
>> notice-and-notice-to-customer-and-CIPPIC.ca ;-)
>
> Terrific. That's such a benefit for a project like this - having a
> host who understands and cares about the project.

   I figured this would come in handy.  I became an ISP for this type of 
reason, because I was continuously hosting projects where I wanted to 
ensure that the policies of any single upstream wouldn't cause problems 
for me.   We are multi-homed with 3 Ottawa ISPs, one of them being a peer 
we have at OttIX.net

-- 
  Russell McOrmond, Internet Consultant: <http://www.flora.ca/>
  Boycott legacy Motion Picture and Recording Industries from April 24-30
           http://www.digital-copyright.ca/node/view/786


From jenzed at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 09:25:04 2005
From: jenzed at gmail.com (Jen Zed)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 09:25:04 -0700
Subject: [PGCanada] Last Call for Web Hosting
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0504251535030.17036@calcutta.flora.ca>
References: <7d574597050422083953e05109@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0504231345450.24350@calcutta.flora.ca>
	<7d57459705042420376d559d8d@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0504250922480.16094@calcutta.flora.ca>
	<7d5745970504250804752e4553@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0504251124120.17036@calcutta.flora.ca>
	<7d57459705042509515c158b0d@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0504251535030.17036@calcutta.flora.ca>
Message-ID: <7d57459705042609257d273347@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/25/05, Russell McOrmond <russell at flora.ca> wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 25 Apr 2005, Jen Zed wrote:
> 
> > On 4/25/05, Russell McOrmond <russell at flora.ca> wrote:
> >>
> >>    Do you have a domain name you will be pointing at this site?
> >
> > James Linden registered http://www.projectgutenberg.ca/. Until
> > recently, this pointed to a "coming soon" page, but now the URL is
> > dead (and maybe his email address at this domain too?)
[...]
>    Would James be considered the technical lead for the project?

Umm, depends on which aspect we're talking about. James has been
working on a back-end system called "Unibook" - most of the "Process"
stuff on the Wiki assumes use of this application. I'm taking care of
our web presence - the wiki and the front-end to the content
repository.

James registered the projectgutenberg.ca domain name before I became
involved in PG-CA. As far as I know, it's never had anything but a
"Coming Soon" page. Regardless, we have to get in touch with him to
make sure. Let's wait a few days - maybe he's just off-line for a
while.

If we can't get in touch with him, do we have any alternative besides
registering a new domain name? Could we work with a temporary domain
name while we get things set up?


jen.