From hart at pglaf.org  Tue Jan 24 09:02:22 2006
From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael Hart)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 09:02:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [PGCanada] [BP] Re: In Canada, "Hollywood's MP" sent packing (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0601240902050.16205@pglaf.org>



---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 11:35:57 -0500
From: Rod Hay <rodhay at golden.net>
To: John Mark Ockerbloom <ockerblo at pobox.upenn.edu>
Cc: spok+bookpeople at cs.cmu.edu
Subject: [BP] Re: In Canada, "Hollywood's MP" sent packing

John.

The likely new advocate in the Liberal party for extending copyright protection 
is Diane Marleau, member for Sudbury,  who is an advocate for the drug 
industry. The Conservatives will likely be sympathetic to the issue.

But there is unlikely to be any movement on the copyright issue. Parliament is 
divided between four parties. Although the Conservatives have the most seats 
and will form the government they do not have a majority. They will have to 
tread very carefully to stay in power. No controversial issues will be 
introduced. But all Canadians who are interested in the issue should pay 
attention. Most members of parliament are unlikely to know much about the topic 
and something may sneak through.

Rod Hay
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From hart at pglaf.org  Tue Jan 24 13:56:01 2006
From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael Hart)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:56:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [PGCanada] Re: [BP] Re: In Canada,
	"Hollywood's MP" sent packing (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0601241355580.26748@pglaf.org>



---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:47:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Hart <hart at pglaf.org>
Reply-To: Michael S. Hart <hart at pobox.com>
To: Book People <spok+bookpeople at cs.cmu.edu>
Cc: Michael S. Hart <hart at login.ibiblio.org>, hart at pglaf.org, hart at pobox.com
Subject: Re: [BP] Re: In Canada, "Hollywood's MP" sent packing


On Tue, 24 Jan 2006, Stephen Davies wrote:

>        Liza Frulla also lost her seat last night.  She was the Heritage
> minister which made her co-responsible for copyright (along with Industry
> Canada).  She had replaced Helene Scherrer who lost her seat last June.
> 
>        Is there a copyright curse!?!?!?

It would certainly seem so!!!

Just look what happened in Australia just a few years ago.

The Parliament said they would not even consider extending copyrights,
but only three years later, after a long siege of economic warfare,
a new copyright extension was passed, and I think this prevents any
copyrights from expiring for an additional 20 years.


>        I would like to know what direction the government will take in
> deciding whether schools have to pay a royalty to access the Internet.
> This was dropped from a contentious copyright revision last year, but it
> will likely resurface.  The revision died regardless when the election was
> called, because it had not been voted on by Parliament.

It seems as if the corporate world has declared World War III on copyright
through its power via the United Nations.

For those who were not aware, the World Intellectual Property Organization
[WIPO] is now the official arm of the United Nations on copyright issues,
even though it originated as a cartel of the largest publishing companies.


>        There are quite a few loopholes in Canadian copyright.  In Canada,
> we are required to pay a fee, a levy or a royalty to use commercially
> prepared materials in the classroom.  We can buy public performance rights
> for a video, or we can pay a fee for taping a program off the air, but we
> can't show packaged TV shows because there is no law for making
> restitution to the copyright holder.  An example would be if an instructor
> wanted to show a boxed set of "Friends" on DVD.  (Don't ask why; just
> accept that they do.)  When we phone American distributors to negotiate
> the rights for this, they a) don't understand the concept of having to pay
> to show something in the classroom, and b) they often don't want to set up
> a process for this, since we're such a small market.

If you think this is bad, you should visit locales where there ARE
no legal copies for sale, but copying is still actively forbidden.

In these cases the inhabitants are forced to either remain ignorant
or to break the law to get a copy of something the rest of the world
takes for granted as being easily available.

With all the mega-mergers that have been going on since the new world
of Reaganomics began in the 1980's, blockbusters sales are all there is
and small markets are not going to be served.

They SAY it is the "trickle down" theory of economics, but then they
do all they can to PREVENT the products from actually trickling down.

I've been in markets in both Europe and Asia where you couldn't find
a legal copy of nearly anything to buy, simply because the markets
weren't large enough.


>        I wonder what small niche there would be for a book-oriented
> entrepreneur who could exploit the absence of a service in Canada.  We
> sometimes hear of a semi-secret Free-Trade tribunal which pays off
> Americans who want to copy an American practice in Canada, but can't
> because of local restrictions.  If "culture" is brought into the Free
> Trade agreement by the new Conservative government, there could be some
> easy money to be made!  Maybe we should make Jack Valenti the new Heritage
> minister and just give up.  He was constantly railing against the
> restrictions that limited American product to 95% of the market.

Yes, you've hit it squarely on the head.

Microsoft used to complain that so many copies of Windows were pirated
in the locales I mentioned above, yet how hard did they try to sell to
that very same market?

The same was true for books, records, etc., though apparently Playboy
can be bought nearly everywhere.

> 
> Stephen Davies
> Calgary


Michael


From russell at flora.ca  Thu Jan 26 11:08:13 2006
From: russell at flora.ca (Russell McOrmond)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 14:08:13 -0500
Subject: [PGCanada] [BP] Re: In Canada, "Hollywood's MP" sent packing (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0601240902050.16205@pglaf.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0601240902050.16205@pglaf.org>
Message-ID: <43D91E1D.9020005@flora.ca>


   We need to somehow get all the activists on this issue together.  Are 
we all aware of each other?

   Our opponents that want to make copyright longer, stronger and more 
complex are able to collaborate their lobbying of the government.  We 
need to be able to coordinate our message as well.


   While I host a forum at Digital-copyright.ca  , I am open to other 
ideas as well.  Where the forum is hosted doesn't matter -- but the fact 
we must collaborate does!

-- 
  Russell McOrmond, Internet Consultant: <http://www.flora.ca/>
  2415+ Canadians oppose Bill C-60 which protects antiquated Recording,
  Movie and "software manufacturing" industries from modernization.
  http://KillBillC60.ca    Sign--> http://digital-copyright.ca/petition/


From hart at pglaf.org  Thu Jan 26 12:16:47 2006
From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael Hart)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 12:16:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [PGCanada] [BP] Re: In Canada, "Hollywood's MP" sent packing (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <43D91E1D.9020005@flora.ca>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0601240902050.16205@pglaf.org>
	<43D91E1D.9020005@flora.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0601261212250.21163@pglaf.org>

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006, Russell McOrmond wrote:

>
>  We need to somehow get all the activists on this issue together.  Are we 
> all aware of each other?
>
>  Our opponents that want to make copyright longer, stronger and more complex 
> are able to collaborate their lobbying of the government.  We need to be able 
> to coordinate our message as well.

I write plenty of articles on the subject of copyright extension,
and would gladly make them available to you, though I/we may want
to make some changes to make them more specific to Canada.


>  While I host a forum at Digital-copyright.ca

Perhaps you could send me some samples from there?


>  I am open to other ideas as well.  Where the forum is hosted doesn't matter 
> -- but the fact we must collaborate does!

You might also be interested in:

Tjhe Union for the Public Domain <upd-discuss at lists.essential.org>

but I should warn you that it has some affect due to the presence
of Richard M. Stallman, who often treats it as if he owns it, and
much of the rest of the open source world.

I have made some efforts to rein him in from time to time, as I'm
an even older proponent of open source than he is.


Give the world eBooks in 2006!!!

Michael S. Hart
Founder
Project Gutenberg



From russell at flora.ca  Thu Jan 26 14:02:41 2006
From: russell at flora.ca (Russell McOrmond)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 17:02:41 -0500
Subject: [PGCanada] [BP] Re: In Canada, "Hollywood's MP" sent packing (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0601261212250.21163@pglaf.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0601240902050.16205@pglaf.org>	<43D91E1D.9020005@flora.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0601261212250.21163@pglaf.org>
Message-ID: <43D94701.6040905@flora.ca>

Michael Hart wrote:
>>  While I host a forum at Digital-copyright.ca
> Perhaps you could send me some samples from there?

   It is an active forum, with both a BLOG and a few mailing lists.  Not 
sure what you mean by "samples".

> You might also be interested in:

   I'm not looking to join more lists, given I don't read many of the 
lists I'm already subscribed to.  What I'm looking for is a way for 
Canadian activists involved in this issue to collaborate.  Some of those 
people need to be involved in the larger international questions, but if 
we all try to be involved in everything, we won't be able to actually 
*do* anything.

> Give the world eBooks in 2006!!!

   I assume you mean DRM-free eBooks ;-)

-- 
  Russell McOrmond, Internet Consultant: <http://www.flora.ca/>
  2415+ Canadians oppose Bill C-60 which protects antiquated Recording,
  Movie and "software manufacturing" industries from modernization.
  http://KillBillC60.ca    Sign--> http://digital-copyright.ca/petition/


From hart at pglaf.org  Fri Jan 27 13:49:26 2006
From: hart at pglaf.org (Michael Hart)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 13:49:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [PGCanada] [BP] Re: In Canada, "Hollywood's MP" sent packing (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <43D94701.6040905@flora.ca>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0601240902050.16205@pglaf.org>
	<43D91E1D.9020005@flora.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0601261212250.21163@pglaf.org>
	<43D94701.6040905@flora.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0601271345580.14606@pglaf.org>



On Thu, 26 Jan 2006, Russell McOrmond wrote:

> Michael Hart wrote:
>>>  While I host a forum at Digital-copyright.ca
>> Perhaps you could send me some samples from there?
>
>  It is an active forum, with both a BLOG and a few mailing lists.  Not sure 
> what you mean by "samples".

Just something to exemplify what you are referring to.

As you say below, you don't read everything, so I'd be interested
to see something I was sure you meant was worth reading.


>> You might also be interested in:
>
>  I'm not looking to join more lists, given I don't read many of the lists 
> I'm already subscribed to.  What I'm looking for is a way for Canadian 
> activists involved in this issue to collaborate.  Some of those people need 
> to be involved in the larger international questions, but if we all try to be 
> involved in everything, we won't be able to actually *do* anything.

These are people I would hope have already gone through some processes
you will likely be wanting to consider.

This should be somewhat helpful, unless you are sure you want to redo
the entire process from scratch.


>
>> Give the world eBooks in 2006!!!
>
>  I assume you mean DRM-free eBooks ;-)

I support the entire medium, though I don't support DRM,
I also would never say there is nothing out there worth
reading in DRM formats.


Michael



From russell at flora.ca  Sat Jan 28 08:54:45 2006
From: russell at flora.ca (Russell McOrmond)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 11:54:45 -0500
Subject: [PGCanada] [BP] Re: In Canada, "Hollywood's MP" sent packing (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0601271345580.14606@pglaf.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0601240902050.16205@pglaf.org>	<43D91E1D.9020005@flora.ca>	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0601261212250.21163@pglaf.org>	<43D94701.6040905@flora.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0601271345580.14606@pglaf.org>
Message-ID: <43DBA1D5.2050008@flora.ca>


Michael Hart wrote:
> Just something to exemplify what you are referring to.

   The main organizing mailing list is the general discussion forum.  It 
goes in bursts, just like this forum.

Forum info is at, including pointer to public archives:
http://list.digital-copyright.ca/mailman/listinfo/discuss

   The BLOG is what people make of it.  I post articles I've written 
myself, as well as links to other BLOGS on topics of interest.


During the election there were many related topic areas that were 
receiving many new articles:

http://www.digital-copyright.ca/election2006/

Many posts to Parkdale - High Park due to the Bulte scandal
http://www.digital-copyright.ca/edid/35068

>>  I'm not looking to join more lists, given I don't read many of the 
>> lists I'm already subscribed to.  What I'm looking for is a way for 
>> Canadian activists involved in this issue to collaborate.  Some of 
>> those people need to be involved in the larger international 
>> questions, but if we all try to be involved in everything, we won't be 
>> able to actually *do* anything.
> 
> 
> These are people I would hope have already gone through some processes
> you will likely be wanting to consider.
> 
> This should be somewhat helpful, unless you are sure you want to redo
> the entire process from scratch.

   I'm wanting a Canadian list, not yet another higher-volume 
International list.

> I support the entire medium, though I don't support DRM,
> I also would never say there is nothing out there worth
> reading in DRM formats.

   I'm all for circumventing DRM in order to access good content, but 
separate whether the content is useful from whether DRM should be 
circumvented to protect our rights as citizens.

-- 
  Russell McOrmond, Internet Consultant: <http://www.flora.ca/>
  2415+ Canadians oppose Bill C-60 which protects antiquated Recording,
  Movie and "software manufacturing" industries from modernization.
  http://KillBillC60.ca    Sign--> http://digital-copyright.ca/petition/