October 2004 - gutvol-d - lists.pglaf.org

PGTEI and more
by Scott Lawton 28 Oct '04

28 Oct '04

My feedback on PGTEI is too long for email, so I posted it here: http://Classicosm.com/xml/feedbackonpgtei.html Sections include: PGTEI Vocabulary PGTEI Examples PGTEI Documentation Generated HTML Default CSS Generated PDF Generated Text PGText to PGTEI I also put together a (rough draft!) Quick Reference table, including a comparison to XHTML http://Classicosm.com/xml/pgteiquickreference.html To help explore alternatives to TEI, I critique a side-by-side comparison to a dedicated vocabulary for plays: http://Classicosm.com/xml/tei-vs-play.html Feedback welcome!!! -- Cheers, Scott S. Lawton http://Classicosm.com/ - Classic Books http://ProductArchitect.com/ - consulting

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re: Re: [gutvol-d] Final PGTEI... page numbers
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 28 Oct '04

28 Oct '04

jon noring said: > for most of DP's volunteers, the markup will be > "under-the-hood" and largely invisible -- most of the > volunteer work anyway is for copyediting the text > (correcting OCR errors), not markup insertion, > so no need to require these volunteers to learn > the gory details of TEI. actually, that represents a poor understanding of the work-flow at distributed proofreaders, under the current system anyway, where the proofers are using a clumsy system of pseudo-markup. > Only the most experienced and interested of the DP volunteers, > who do the final cleanup/finishing stages, will actually > play with the markup itself. well, now you're talking about the system that will be created, and what that will ultimately look like has not yet been decided. the way you've put it here is, to some degree, what is desired, but there's some question about whether proofers can do their job prior to the introduction of any markup at all. of course, there is _also_ some question about how easy it will be to do the proofing if any obtrusive markup is "inflicted" on the text prior to proofing. further, at present, "proofing" -- the act of catching and correcting errors, either in the text or in the formatting -- happens right up until the end of the text's processing, and i think the finding will be that obtrusive markup, whenever it occurs, will short-circuit that. whether the early rounds can be improved to the point that this "short-circuiting" causes no problems is yet another open question. > Aside: the DP-produced XML Master texts will certainly be > used for many purposes, all of which instill requirements on > the markup specification, and which must be considered -- > this is the biggest missing area not being discussed on gutvol-*. well, the discussion _here_ carries absolutely no weight at all. if you want to know what d.p. is going to do, you'll have to go over to their forums, where they're batting abut these issues right now. (look under the "everything but distributed proofreaders" section, which is an odd place to put such a discussion, wouldn't you think?) > The most exciting of these is where the DPXML texts will be > archived into a special library-like repository which allows > a very high-level of end-user interface and customizability > to the collection (e.g., bookmarking, annotation, interlinking > within the repository and to other content repositories, blogging, > etc. -- all things several associates and I are now working on. sounds like you're off and running. perhaps you could teach people here how to crawl first. -bowerbird

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Re: [gutvol-d] Final PGTEI... page numbers
by Joshua Hutchinson 28 Oct '04

28 Oct '04

----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Noring <jon(a)noring.name> > <snipped a lot of good stuff> I just wanted to address the DP/PG TEI Working Subcommittee idea. Probably not going to happen. Things tend happen like this around DP: One or two people see something irritating they want to scratch badly enough to start working on it themselves. Then, they come up with a workable implementation that is put out as a "test" of some sort. It gets refined and used more and more until it becomes a defacto standard. (See our current proofing guidelines at DP for a prime example of this process.) In this case, TEI was talked about but no one wanted to "scratch the itch" enough to take it on as their baby. I'm finally irritated enough by multiple formats that I've decided to get something going. With Marcello's invaluable technical expertise, I'm trying to keep the ball rolling. It's slowed down by the fact that I am NOT a TEI/XML expert, but I am making some progress. I've already learned a ton in the last week ... enough to be impressed by the TEI spec and by Marcello's work on the transforms so far. My goal is to have a working XML->HTML and XML->TEXT conversion for 90% of the texts that go through DP sometime before Christmas. The caveat here is that I'm still learning and while it looks doable to me now, I may learn something tomorrow that makes me revise my estimate. So, for now, I guess I'm the "unofficial" working committee (well, Marcello, too, since I keep bugging the poor guy constantly and he's still nice enough to respond to my e-mails). Others have provided very helpful pointers and advice, too, but I'm hoping to push this past just talking about it and into actually having something that works at some level. (Right now, the XML -> HTML conversion is "almost" there ... the XML -> TEXT conversion needs more work.) Josh

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Final PGTEI run-thru for a while...
by Joshua Hutchinson 28 Oct '04

28 Oct '04

This e-mail concludes the "common" items I want to check in PGTEI. With the items in my previous tests and the ones today, I could mark up 95%+ of what I see in DP. So, my next step is to start trying to understand how the transforms work and see what *I* can do to improve things. Expect this to be slow going, folks, I'm an old English major who likes computers, so I have to puzzle things out as I go! :) **** For this one, I create a hodge-podge of stuff from the beginning of The Hunting of the Snark and my own gibberish additions to get to all the features I wanted to test. The XML file is attached at the end for anyone wanting to reproduce my tests. As before, the conversion was done with Marcello's online transforms at http://www.gutenberg.org/tei/services/tei-online. **** Table markup: 1 - XML was very straight forward. It is similar to HTML table markup, just with slightly different tag words. <row> instead of <tr>. <cell> instead of <td>. All in all, the more human friendly tags in the XML are easier to parse than the HTML. Under the HTML conversion, the tables came out well. No complaints there. Under the TEXT conversion, the small table came out well. However, when I used longer data items in the second table, the TEXT conversion did not do so well. Basically, the text conversion does not try to line wrap the table cells at all, the table grew to be extremely wide. This one is a bit of a show stopper as far as automated conversion is concerned. Granted, the tables could be manually edited, but that hurts the whole reason for using a master document format. ** Footnote markup: Again, no real complains on the footnotes/endnotes. It is pretty straight forward once you read the formatting rules. The nice thing is that the conversion process handles moving the notes to their proper location for you. However, I did have one question that I couldn't find the answer to. How would you handle sidenotes? It looked like you could put a place="left" (or "right") in the <note> tag, but PGTEI doesn't support that. Is that even the right semantic tag for a sidenote? TEXT conversion had one glitch. For some reason, the footnote listing at the end of the text did not put a number 1 in front of the first footnote. The second footnote was labelled with a 2 correctly. This problem was not present in the HTML conversion. ** Page number markup: No complaints. I'll be looking into a transform that will place the numbers in the margin, but that is a secondary concern. ** Blockquotes: I wanted to markup a blockquote example, but I didn't see how. Anyone out there know how to handle a blockquote with a text? ** Poetry markup: I had the most notes for poetry, so I left it for last in the markup. 1 - How should we markup poetry indents? In HTML, I use    toput two spaces for indents on the text.... *edit* I just found in Marcello's guide that he suggests using &emsp; as a quad indent. Works for me, unless someone has a different suggestion. 2 - It was unclear to me at first, that a poetry fragment still needed <lg> around it. <l> which marks off one line of poetry is insufficient, because the poem line would still be treated as inline in the sentence with just <l>. Putting <lg> around it set it off on its own line. 3 - If I understand the markup right, <lg> represents a portion of the poem, such as a single stanza. To represent the whole poem in one structural element, you need a higher level tag. Would <div1> work ok here? Or is the some poem tag I'm missing? HTML results - Poetry is not marked off well. The poems are flush with the left margin. Adding a larger margin around the poem will help it appear distinct from the prose text around it. Also, the paragraph indenting is affected by poetry. Since the conversion only indents a paragraph if the previous line was the end of a paragraph, it doesn't indent after a poem. This is taken care of if we revert to standard HTML paragraph spacing. **** Josh **** source.xml-- ============ <?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1" ?> <!DOCTYPE TEI.2 SYSTEM "pgtei.dtd"> <TEI.2 lang="en-gb"> <teiHeader> <fileDesc> <titleStmt> <title>The Hunting of the Snark</title> <author><name>Lewis Carroll</name></author> </titleStmt> <editionStmt> <edition n="12">Edition 12 <date value="1992-3">March 1992</date> </edition> </editionStmt> <publicationStmt> <publisher>Project Gutenberg</publisher> <pubPlace><xref url="www.gutenberg.org">www.gutenberg.org</xref></pubPlace> <date value="1992-3">March 1992</date> <idno type='etext-file'>snark12</idno> <availability> <p>This eBook is for the use of anyone anywhere at no cost and with almost no restrictions whatsoever. You may copy it, give it away or re-use it under the terms of the Project Gutenberg License included online at <xref url="www.gutenberg.org/license">www.gutenberg.org/license</xref></p> </availability> </publicationStmt> <sourceDesc> <bibl> THE MILLENNIUM FULCRUM EDITION 1.2 </bibl> </sourceDesc> </fileDesc> <encodingDesc> <classDecl> <taxonomy id="lc"> <bibl> <title>Library of Congress Classification</title> </bibl> </taxonomy> </classDecl> </encodingDesc> <profileDesc> <langUsage> <language id="en-gb">British</language> </langUsage> <textClass> <classCode scheme="lc"> ***  </classCode> <keywords> <list>  </list> </keywords> </textClass> </profileDesc> <revisionDesc> <change> <date value="1992-3">March 1992</date> <respStmt> <name>unknown</name>  </respStmt> <item>Project Gutenberg Edition</item> </change> <change> <date value="2004-10">October 2004</date> <respStmt> <name>Joshua Hutchinson</name>  </respStmt> <item>TEI markup</item> </change> </revisionDesc> </teiHeader> <text> <front> <divGen type="titlepage" /> <divGen type="pgheader" rend="newpage" /> <divGen type="toc" rend="newdoublepage" /> </front> <body> <div> <index index="toc" /> <index index="pdf" /> <index index="pdb" /> <head> THE HUNTING OF THE SNARK </head> <head type="sub">an Agony in Eight Fits</head> <head type="sub"> Lewis Carroll </head> <head type="sub"> THE MILLENNIUM FULCRUM EDITION 1.2 </head> </div> <div rend="newpage" type="preface"> <index index="toc" /> <index index="pdf" /> <index index="pdb" /> <pb n="i" /> <head> PREFACE </head> <p> If—and the thing is wildly possible—the charge of writing nonsense were ever brought against the author of this brief but instructive poem, it would be based, I feel convinced, on the line (in p.4) </p> <lg><l>"Then the bowsprit got mixed with the rudder sometimes." <note place="foot"> This is an example footnote. </note> </l></lg> <p> In view of this painful possibility, I will not (as I might) appeal indignantly to my other writings as a proof that I am incapable of such a deed: I will not (as I might) point to the strong moral purpose of this poem itself, to the arithmetical principles so cautiously inculcated in it, or to its noble teachings in Natural History— I will take the more prosaic course of simply explaining how it happened. </p> <p> The Bellman, who was almost morbidly sensitive about appearances, used to have the bowsprit unshipped once or twice a week to be revarnished, and it more than once happened, when the time came for replacing it, that no one on board could remember which end of the ship it belonged to. They knew it was not of the slightest use to appeal to the Bellman about it — he would only refer to his Naval Code, and read out in pathetic tones Admiralty Instructions which none of them had ever been able to understand — so it generally ended in its being fastened on, anyhow, across the rudder. The helmsman used to stand by with tears in his eyes; he knew it was all wrong, but alas! Rule 42 of the Code, "No one shall speak to the Man at the Helm," had been completed by the Bellman himself with the words "and the Man at the Helm shall speak to no one." So remonstrance was impossible, and no steering could be done till the next varnishing day. During these bewildering intervals the ship usually sailed backwards. </p> <p> As this poem is to some extent connected with the lay of the Jabberwock, let me take this opportunity of answering a question that has often been asked me, how to pronounce "slithy toves." The "i" in "slithy" is long, as in "writhe"; and "toves" is pronounced so as to rhyme with "groves." Again, the first "o" in "borogoves" is pronounced like the "o" in "borrow." I have heard people try to give it the sound of the "o" in "worry. Such is Human Perversity. </p> <p> This also seems a fitting occasion to notice the other hard works in that poem. Humpty-Dumpty's theory, of two meanings packed into one word like a portmanteau, seems to me the right explanation for all. </p> <pb n="ii" /> <p> For instance, take the two words "fuming" and "furious." Make up your mind that you will say both words, but leave it unsettled which you will say first. Now open your mouth and speak. If your thoughts incline ever so little towards "fuming," you will say "fuming-furious;" if they turn, by even a hair's breadth, towards "furious," you will say "furious-fuming;" but if you have the rarest of gifts, a perfectly balanced mind, you will say "frumious."</p> <p> Supposing that, when Pistol uttered the well-known words — </p> <lg><l> "Under which king, Bezonian? Speak or die!" <note place="foot"> <p>This is, hopefully, an example of a multi-line footnote.</p> <p>Here is where the second line of the footnote should be.</p> </note> </l></lg> <p> Justice Shallow had felt certain that it was either William or Richard, but had not been able to settle which, so that he could not possibly say either name before the other, can it be doubted that, rather than die, he would have gasped out "Rilchiam!" </p> </div> <div rend="newdoublepage"> <pb n="1" /> <index index="toc" /> <index index="pdf" /> <index index="pdb" /> <head> Fit the First </head> <head type="sub"> THE LANDING </head> <lg> <l>"Just the place for a Snark!" the Bellman cried,</l> <l n="2">As he landed his crew with care;</l> <l>Supporting each man on the top of the tide</l> <l>By a finger entwined in his hair. </l> </lg> <lg> <l> "Just the place for a Snark! I have said it twice:</l> <l>That alone should encourage the crew. </l> <l>Just the place for a Snark! I have said it thrice: </l> <l>What i tell you three times is true."</l> </lg> <lg> <l>The crew was complete: it included a Boots — </l> <l>A maker of Bonnets and Hoods — </l> <l>A Barrister, brought to arrange their disputes — </l> <l>And a Broker, to value their goods. </l> </lg> </div> <div rend="newpage"> <pb n="2" /> <index index="toc" /> <index index="pdf" /> <index index="pdb" /> <head>Example of a Table</head> <table rows="2" cols="2"> <row role="label"> <cell>Column 1 Heading</cell><cell>Column 2 Heading</cell> </row> <row role="data"> <cell>Column 1 Data</cell><cell>Column 2 Data</cell> </row> </table> <table rows="2" cols="2"> <row role="label"> <cell>Column 1 Heading - REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY LONG</cell><cell>Column 2 Heading - REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY LONG</cell> </row> <row role="data"> <cell>Column 1 Data - REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY LONG</cell><cell>Column 2 Data - REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY LONG</cell> </row> </table> </div> <div> <index index="toc" /> <index index="pdf" /> <index index="pdb" /> <head> THE END</head> <p> </p> </div> </body> <back rend="newdoublepage"> <divGen type="footnotes" /> <divGen type="colophon" rend="newpage" /> <divGen type="pgfooter" rend="newpage" /> </back> </text> </TEI.2>

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Re: [gutvol-d] Final PGTEI... blockquote
by Joshua Hutchinson 27 Oct '04

27 Oct '04

----- Original Message ----- From: Marcello Perathoner <marcello(a)perathoner.de> > > Joshua Hutchinson wrote: > > > I think I'd prefer the rend="block" over "display" just because it is > > a little more intuitive. Thanks for tracking that down Scott. > > "display" is different from "block". > > A display is a chunk of text set off (displayed) from the rest usually > by enlarging the left and right margins and inserting some top and > bottom margins. > > A block is just a plain old block with nothing special to distinguish it > from any block fore or aft. > > The HTML tag <blockquote> is just a bit misnamed. > The barebones guide didn't seem to make a distinction between the two, but if "display" seems more correct to you, I'm willing to use it. > > I also found how to handle sidenotes since I wrote that original > > message. > > > > <note place="margin"> > > This works only in HTML for now. Ideas on how to display it in TXT > without wasting a lot of space? > In a text file, I would say one of two ways. 1 - Easy way, just treat it like a footnote/endnote and stick it at the end. 2 - Slightly better way (pulled from how DP texts do it) ... Move the note to before the paragraph it is part off and mark it with a [Sidenote: blah blah] markup. Both methods lose a little fidelity, since the Sidenote is not printed exactly right by the text it refers to, like it would in the original. But method two keeps it fairly close, and context should allow the reader to easily tell the part of the paragraph it refers to. Method one would allow the marker to appear near its original source location, but the information is now not in the same eye region. The user must click to the notes section to see the information, which is commonly meant to be more accessible/more important than a typical footnote. Josh

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Re: [gutvol-d] Final PGTEI... blockquote
by Joshua Hutchinson 27 Oct '04

27 Oct '04

I think I'd prefer the rend="block" over "display" just because it is a little more intuitive. Thanks for tracking that down Scott. I also found how to handle sidenotes since I wrote that original message. <note place="margin"> It is actually used in Marcello's PGTEI guide (though not talked about specifically... it is used to provide some info on another topic). If anyone is wondering, I am keeping track of all this markup. I gonna see about putting together a webpage with the ongoing notes. Josh ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Lawton <scott_bulkmail(a)productarchitect.com> To: Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion <gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org> Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] Final PGTEI... blockquote Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:25:00 -0400 > > >Blockquotes: > > > >I wanted to markup a blockquote example, but I didn't see how. Anyone out there know how to handle a blockquote with a text? > > Perhaps: > <div rend="display"> > <q rend="display"> > > (not very intuitive, eh?) > > It's mentioned briefly in Marcello's docs, once you know what to look for ("wider margins"). > > Also, search for these in Marcello's alice.tei and lmiss.tei examples. The "q" one will add quote marks, unless supressed via the appropriate attribute. > > I couldn't find it in the TEI Lite docs (though I assume it's there somewhere). I did find it in Section 4.3 of "Bare Bones TEI" http://www.tei-c.org/Vault/Bare/ -- which also suggests that rend="block" is equivalent. (I didn't find independent confirmation.) > -- > > Scott > > Practical Software Innovation (tm), http://ProductArchitect.com/ > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d >

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Re: [gutvol-d] Final PGTEI... page numbers
by Joshua Hutchinson 27 Oct '04

27 Oct '04

<pb n="x" /> Where x is the original source page number. Here is a tentative TEI2HTML transform for it... <xsl:template match="/TEI.2/text//pb[@n]"> <span id="page{@n}" class="pagenum">[pg <xsl:value-of select="@n"/>]</span> </xsl:template> (Thanks to Marcello for cleaning up my ugly first attempt at the transform.) The CSS will need a span.pagenum defined to put the [pg x] markup in the side margin. Josh ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Lawton <scott_bulkmail(a)productarchitect.com> To: Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion <gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org> Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] Final PGTEI... page numbers Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:25:15 -0400 > > >Page number markup: > > > >No complaints. I'll be looking into a transform that will place the numbers in the margin, but that is a secondary concern. > > I didn't see an explicit way to mark the original page numbers. Perhaps as a marginal note? > > <note place="margin">27</note> > -- > > Scott > > Practical Software Innovation (tm), http://ProductArchitect.com/ > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d >

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(Fwd) FW: Copyright Infringement of Gone With the Wind
by dlainson＠sympatico.ca 27 Oct '04

27 Oct '04

Hello Here's a letter (which I'm apparently breaking some US law by forwarding, but I'll take the risk) which I find disturbing. Seems that "Project Gutenberg established PGA to permit the illegal downloading of works". Of this I wasn't aware. As a big contributor to PGA it concerns me personally, as well as setting a very dangerous precedent. Does one country have the right to dictate to another what a website can contain when it falls within the law of the host country, and can they force some sort of restrictions on the downloading of material? Don. ------- Forwarded message follows ------- From: "Col Choat" <colc(a)gutenberg.net.au> To: "Don Lainson" <dlainson(a)sympatico.ca> Subject: FW: Copyright Infringement of Gone With the Wind Date sent: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:36:48 +1000 -----Original Message----- From: Gonzalez, Dalgis [mailto:dgonzalez@fkkslaw.com]On Behalf Of Selz, Thomas Sent: Tuesday, 26 October 2004 6:29 AM To: colc(a)gutenberg.net.au Cc: Paul Anderson Sr. (E-mail); Paul Anderson Jr. (E-mail); Thomas Hal Clarke (E-mail); Thomas Hal Clarke (E-mail 2); Selz, Thomas Subject: Copyright Infringement of Gone With the Wind October 25, 2004 Certified Mail- Return receipt Requested Project Gutenberg 405 West Elm Street Urbana, IL 61801 By e-mail (colc(a)gutenberg.net.au) Project Gutenberg of Australia Re: Copyright Infringement of Gone With the Wind To Whom It May Concern: We represent the Stephens Mitchell Trusts (the Trusts), the owner of the copyright to the book, Gone With The Wind (GWTW). There are copyright provisions around the world, including, without limitation, the United States Copyright Act, 17 U.S.C. §101 et. seq, which grant the Trusts, as copyright owner, the exclusive right to reproduce and distribute GWTW in the United States and elsewhere. It has come to our attention that Project Gutenbergs affiliate, Project Gutenberg of Australia (PGA), is publishing GWTW in electronic book form on its web site located at www.gutenberg.net.au (the Web Site). The Web Site states that PGA produces etexts in accordance with Australian law and that the books available on its site are in the public domain in Australia. While the Web Site warns that some of its ebooks may still be protected by copyright in the U.S. and suggests that U.S. users check U.S. copyright laws or visit Project Gutenbergs U.S. web site for its list of public domain works, there is nothing to prevent any U.S. user from simply downloading GWTW from the Web Site. Indeed, we were able to do so easily. It appears to us that Project Gutenberg established PGA to permit the illegal downloading of works that are still subject to copyright protection in the U.S. and elsewhere. Project Gutenbergs and PGAs willful, knowing and unauthorized distribution of GWTW to users in the U.S. and elsewhere where copyright protection remains available is a blatant violation of our clients rights under applicable statutes and common law. Please be advised that Project Gutenberg and PGA are subject to U.S. copyright law and to jurisdiction in the U.S. for their infringing activities through applicable jurisdiction statutes governing the commission of acts of infringement that either occur in the U.S. or have an effect in the U.S. On behalf of the Trusts, we hereby demand that Project Gutenberg and/or PGA confirm to us within five (5) days of receipt of this letter that you have removed GWTW from the Web Site entirely or that you have taken all necessary steps to prevent the downloading of GWTW in all places in which it is protected by copyright. Please be advised that if we have not received confirmation of your willingness to comply with the foregoing demands, we will take all appropriate steps to protect and enforce our clients rights. This demand is without prejudice to all of the Trusts rights and remedies in this matter, both legal and equitable, all of which are specifically and expressly reserved. Very truly yours, Thomas D. Selz cc:Paul H. Anderson, Sr., Esq. Paul Anderson, Jr., Esq. Thomas Hal Clarke, Jr., Esq. Dalgis E. Gonzalez FrankfurtKurnit Klein & Selz, PC 488 Madison Avenue New York, New York 10022 Tel: (212) 980-0120 x6735 Fax: (212) 593-9175 E-mail: dgonzalez(a)fkkslaw.com This e-mail and any attached files are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which this mail is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Any use, disclosure, copying or distribution of this e-mail or the attached files by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply e- mail or collect call to (212) 980-0120 and delete this e-mail and attached files from your system. Thank you. ------- End of forwarded message ------- Don Lainson dlainson(a)sympatico.ca

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Re: [gutvol-d] Found an indention example in TEI...
by Joshua Hutchinson 27 Oct '04

27 Oct '04

----- Original Message ----- From: Marcello Perathoner <marcello(a)perathoner.de> > Joshua Hutchinson wrote: > > > Negative indents? 1, 2, 3 would seem to indicate number of indents > > to apply, which would seem to me would be a positive indent number. > > I'm missing something here, I know it. > > What if you want a line to stick out > > stanza > stanza > like this? > stanza > stanza > > Solutions: > > <l rend="indent-1">like this</l> > > or > > <l rend="indent(-1)>like this</l> > > > I prefer the latter. > > Ah! *light bulb goes on* I understand now. Ok, the second example is fine with me and it does look better in the (hopefully rare) instance where a negative indent is required. Josh

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Re: [gutvol-d] Found an indention example in TEI...
by Joshua Hutchinson 27 Oct '04

27 Oct '04

----- Original Message ----- From: Marcello Perathoner <marcello(a)perathoner.de> > > Joshua Hutchinson wrote: > > > <l>"Just the place for a Snark!" the Bellman cried,</l> > > <l rend="indent">As he landed his crew with care;</l> > <snipped> I think I understood everything but this line. > > <l rend="indentX"> for X = 1, 2, 3 > > ugly, makes me want to puke. Negative indents ? > Negative indents? 1, 2, 3 would seem to indicate number of indents to apply, which would seem to me would be a positive indent number. I'm missing something here, I know it. > <l rend="indent indent"> > > better. Compatible with TEI spec. Falls back to one indent > if more than one is not supported by XSLT. > I don't really like it. Too verbose and not as intuitive (IMO). > <l rend="indent(-1)"> > > still better. Related to the negative indent comment above, I'm sure, but I'm still not connecting the dots. > > <l indent="1"> > > most elegant but not so standard. Needs new attribute. > > The not as "standard" is the only problem I have. But I could go either way if you feel strongly about it. > Structural tagging: > > <lg type="limerick"> > <l>There was a young lady of Riga,</l> > <l>Who smiled as she rode on a tiger;</l> > <lg rend="indent"> > <l>They returned from the ride</l> > <l>With the lady inside,</l> > </lg> > <l>And the smile on the face of the tiger.</l> > </lg> > Looks fine to me (as long as the rend attribute is possible in the <l> tag, too, if necessary). Josh

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