January 2005 - gutvol-d - lists.pglaf.org

Re: [gutvol-d] PG-50/70?
by D. Starner 07 Jan '05

07 Jan '05

"Robert Shimmin" <shimmin(a)uiuc.edu> writes: > If someone finally gets around to producing a PDA that's as much joy to read as a printed book, > and ebooks become a major part of the publishing industry, we may see titles that were only ever > available via download. What do you mean, "we may see"? <http://www.rpgnow.com/> has a number of volumes available by download only. It's not that uncommon in the roleplaying industry. -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm

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Most relaxed?
by Wallace J.McLean 07 Jan '05

07 Jan '05

I wouldn't say MOST relaxed, there are a few African countries that take that prize, but we're good for several reasons: - physical proxmity to the US provides logistical and $ savings for volunteers; - part of the Anglo-American law world; we can, for now, stand as a bulwark against the extensionists, and the presence of such a library, will, if large enough, allow for the mobilization of a defence of the public domain; - English- and French-speaking; can make liaisons and bridges with the longer-life-plus-term UK and Ireland as well as the wierd-term US (there are thousands of PD books under the pre-1923 rule in the US that are NOT PD in life+ countries, including Canada; - large immigrant communities, and "heritage language" communities, among whose numbers we can recruit to help give the collection more internationality; - excellent net.infrastructure, esp. as compared to those countries with even less copyright; - several PD and digital library initiatives already in progress; - some potential corporate contributors; - already a strong base of PG/DP support, with one of the largest non- US contingents already involved. We can build a life+/CanCon version, and hopefully, by growing incrementally as PGDP I has, do so without destabilizing the Mothership. DRAWBACK: - Collective copyright administration; the literary, artistic and musical collective agencies will watch us like hawks. Scratch that; VULTURES. Which is why we have to have a failsafe clearance mechanism. I've got as good a knowledge of Canadian CR law, esp. as pertains to the undefined, in Canadian law, expression "public domain", as any non- lawyer does, and I've volunteered to help with the clearances. So, I repeat the call: Where are the tech people who can make this happen, and sooner rather than later? I'd start processing titles from Project Gutenberg Mothership according to their Life+50 eligibility as soon as the site is in place. We need a friendly host. ----- Original Message ----- >From Jonathan Ingram <jonathan_ingram(a)yahoo.com> Date Thu, 6 Jan 2005 09:55:52 -0800 (PST) To Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion <gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org> Subject Re: [gutvol-d] PG-50/70? We need a centralised PGUS-style storage system for life+X books that can be easily mirrored in other life+X countries, and that should preferably be based in the country with the most relaxed laws -- Canada. -- Jon Ingram

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German texts and the m-dash
by Karl Eichwalder 06 Jan '05

06 Jan '05

Thanks for posting Pater Filucius by Wilhelm Busch (http://www.gutenberg.org/1/4/3/4/14340) Unfortunately, the m-dash treatment is wrong--spaces are missing. Is this a common problem for texts prepared by DP-PG? -- http://www.gnu.franken.de/ke/ | ,__o | _-\_<, | (*)/'(*) Key fingerprint = F138 B28F B7ED E0AC 1AB4 AA7F C90A 35C3 E9D0 5D1C

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Re: [gutvol-d] DocBook
by Joshua Hutchinson 06 Jan '05

06 Jan '05

There is an ongoing effort to move to a master XML format, but instead of DocBook, we've tentatively chosen TEI (or rather, more specifically, a subset of TEI). If you'd like more information about it, please see this website: http://www.gutenberg.org/tei/ Also, if you have specific questions, I'd be happy to answer them to the best of my ability. Josh ----- Original Message ----- From: Pupeno <pupeno(a)pupeno.com> To: gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org Subject: [gutvol-d] DocBook Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 04:08:22 -0300 > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hello, > I'm new to the Gutenberg project and I think it's awesome, so much > information, literature, on-line, for free. > The only thing I don't like is the format, plain text doesn't seem very good > for storing books. Then some books are in HTML, that's even worst. I > personally prefeer DocBook[1] for storing books. For those of you that > doesn't know what DocBook is: it is an xml-based format designed exclusively > for storing books where no information about how the book will be seen in a > graphical screen is stored but information about what things are. It has tags > for separating chapters, appendices, prefaces, parts, books (in sets of > books), etc. > This is not just a complain. I'd like to know if you'd be intrested in > adopting DocBook, at least as one of the possible formats (being that > DocBooks can be turned easily into HTML, PDF and Plain text [2], I would > recomend DocBook as the main format); if so, I'm willing to donate some of my > time to the cause in researching and developing a way to offer DocBooks > (specially, how the current books can be turned into DocBook). If you'd like > to know more about this, I already have some ideas but I didn't want to write > a kilometer long email, just tell me and I'll elaborate more. > Thank you. > - -- > Pupeno: pupeno(a)pupeno.com - http://www.pupeno.com > Reading Science Fiction ? http://sfreaders.com.ar > > [1] http://www.docbook.org > [2] Take a look to Science Fiction Reader's library: > http://sfreaders.com.ar/library , all the files except the DocBooks are > automatically created. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFB3OPpfW48a9PWGkURAmajAJ4wlsRAIR+bN5hnv8jZiB/pS1pbgwCfYElo > v0dlFn9z+fjGXenXOWffI90= > =4sRX > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d

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Re: [gutvol-d] PG-50/70?
by Gutenberg9443＠aol.com 06 Jan '05

06 Jan '05

In a message dated 1/6/2005 9:58:30 AM Mountain Standard Time, holden.mcgroin(a)dsl.pipex.com writes: I'd not argue that some people in creative industries do work for similar reasons as your steelworker and waitress above. However, I would argue that the vast majority of people create not because they make a living that way but because they enjoy the act of creation. Every day, I meet people who write books (even ones that I'd consider worth publishing) but never send off a copy to any publishers or agents. Every day, I meet people who write, perform and record music not because they're secretly hoping for a contract from the record industry but because they enjoy making music and they enjoy that they can give people a little entertainment. Goodie for them. I WRITE FULLTIME. Making a living is important to me. I am no longer physically capable of doing any other work. And I am sick and tired of this patronizing attitude from somebody who knows absolutely nothing whatever of the kind of work I do or the fact that it is extremely HARD work. If I gave a complete answer to this I would set fire to the internet. So I will simply say that you are totally and completely out of your mind. It is quite obvious that you hate anybody who wants to make a living in the arts. As long as YOU get paid for whatever YOUR paid work is, you care far too little what happens to anybody else. Knowing somebody who writes books is not the same as writing books yourself. When I was a teacher, I got paid monthly. When I was selling telephone systems to businesses, I got paid biweekly. When I was a cop, I got paid biweekly. As a writer, I get paid whenever some editor decides to get up off her butt and send me a check. If my book sits on her desk for a year because she's too lazy to open it and look at the first three pages, which is all it takes to say "No, I don't want this," that's my problem, as is the fact that most editors won't look at simultaneous proposals at all. Greg, I'm sorry. I know you like me to stay current with what's going on in the mailing lists. But I'm taking four blood-pressure meds already. I'm bailing out. I will do all the things that I am committed to doing, and you know what they are. But I'm not going to read this crap anymore. Anne

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Re: [gutvol-d] PG-50/70?
by Joshua Hutchinson 06 Jan '05

06 Jan '05

Anne, you really need to calm down when someone has a different opinion than you. Your blood pressure will thank you for it! :) That being said, I agree with you on needing copyright. If I wrote something for profit, I'd want to actually get a profit for it. And, like you, I think that Life+75 is ridiculus. I think Life+25 is about the max *I* would personally set it at. Though I don't really like Life+ scenarios. I prefer a set limit after publication (yes, like the US, but nothing approaching the ridiculous copyright length we have now). The original copyright in the US was 14 years (as others have pointed out previously), but there was a provision to extend it another 14 years if you applied for the extension. So, books were protected for 28 years if they were in print. I think my perfect length would be 50 years from publication. That's plenty of time for you (and most likely your heirs) to make all the money you are likely to off the work, while still being somewhat relevant once it hits public domain. Longer than that and obscure works start becoming extremely hard to find and we at PG don't even GET the opportunity to preserve it for history's sake. Josh ----- Original Message ----- From: Gutenberg9443(a)aol.com > > In a message dated 1/6/2005 9:58:30 AM Mountain Standard Time, > holden.mcgroin(a)dsl.pipex.com writes: > > I'd not argue that some people in creative industries do work for similar > reasons as your > steelworker and waitress above. However, I would argue that the vast > majority of people > create not because they make a living that way but because they enjoy the > act of creation. > Every day, I meet people who write books (even ones that I'd consider worth > publishing) > but never send off a copy to any publishers or agents. Every day, I meet > people who write, > perform and record music not because they're secretly hoping for a contract > from the > record industry but because they enjoy making music and they enjoy that they > can give > people a little entertainment. > > > > > Goodie for them. I WRITE FULLTIME. Making a living is important to me. I am > no longer physically capable of doing any other work. And I am sick and tired > of this patronizing attitude from somebody who knows absolutely nothing > whatever of the kind of work I do or the fact that it is extremely HARD work. > > If I gave a complete answer to this I would set fire to the internet. So I > will simply say that you are totally and completely out of your mind. It is > quite obvious that you hate anybody who wants to make a living in the arts. As > long as YOU get paid for whatever YOUR paid work is, you care far too little > what happens to anybody else. Knowing somebody who writes books is not the > same as writing books yourself. > > When I was a teacher, I got paid monthly. When I was selling telephone > systems to businesses, I got paid biweekly. When I was a cop, I got paid > biweekly. > As a writer, I get paid whenever some editor decides to get up off her butt > and send me a check. If my book sits on her desk for a year because she's too > lazy to open it and look at the first three pages, which is all it takes to > say "No, I don't want this," that's my problem, as is the fact that most > editors won't look at simultaneous proposals at all. > > Greg, I'm sorry. I know you like me to stay current with what's going on in > the mailing lists. But I'm taking four blood-pressure meds already. I'm > bailing out. I will do all the things that I am committed to doing, and you > know > what they are. But I'm not going to read this crap anymore. > > Anne > > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d

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Re: [gutvol-d] DocBook
by Joshua Hutchinson 06 Jan '05

06 Jan '05

Well, one reason was to make things more manageable... The full TEI spec is 1400 pages long! I certainly don't want to support everything in there. TEI-Lite, which is much more manageable, also leaves out a couple little things that we decided we needed. We also do a couple things a little differently that base TEI. (The <lb /> markup for a force line break comes to mind here.) For a more technical reason, I leave it to Marcello to answer. Josh ----- Original Message ----- From: Pupeno <pupeno(a)pupeno.com> To: "Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion" <gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org> Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] DocBook Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 13:12:21 -0300 > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Je Ĵaŭdo Januaro 6 2005 10:34, Joshua Hutchinson skribis: > > There is an ongoing effort to move to a master XML format, but instead of > > DocBook, we've tentatively chosen TEI (or rather, more specifically, a > > subset of TEI). > > > > If you'd like more information about it, please see this website: > > http://www.gutenberg.org/tei/ > > Why did you make your own DTD ? Instead of using the standard TEI one ? > > - -- > Pupeno: pupeno(a)pupeno.com - http://www.pupeno.com > Reading Science Fiction ? http://sfreaders.com.ar > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFB3WNnfW48a9PWGkURAu3DAJ0VOFoD1k3GuNQDUDsxDLXsN08TZQCfeWeH > xf4V5XKwq6SWKDMSbeA4fLA= > =UX41 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d

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DocBook
by Pupeno 06 Jan '05

06 Jan '05

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hello, I'm new to the Gutenberg project and I think it's awesome, so much information, literature, on-line, for free. The only thing I don't like is the format, plain text doesn't seem very good for storing books. Then some books are in HTML, that's even worst. I personally prefeer DocBook[1] for storing books. For those of you that doesn't know what DocBook is: it is an xml-based format designed exclusively for storing books where no information about how the book will be seen in a graphical screen is stored but information about what things are. It has tags for separating chapters, appendices, prefaces, parts, books (in sets of books), etc. This is not just a complain. I'd like to know if you'd be intrested in adopting DocBook, at least as one of the possible formats (being that DocBooks can be turned easily into HTML, PDF and Plain text [2], I would recomend DocBook as the main format); if so, I'm willing to donate some of my time to the cause in researching and developing a way to offer DocBooks (specially, how the current books can be turned into DocBook). If you'd like to know more about this, I already have some ideas but I didn't want to write a kilometer long email, just tell me and I'll elaborate more. Thank you. - -- Pupeno: pupeno(a)pupeno.com - http://www.pupeno.com Reading Science Fiction ? http://sfreaders.com.ar [1] http://www.docbook.org [2] Take a look to Science Fiction Reader's library: http://sfreaders.com.ar/library , all the files except the DocBooks are automatically created. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFB3OPpfW48a9PWGkURAmajAJ4wlsRAIR+bN5hnv8jZiB/pS1pbgwCfYElo v0dlFn9z+fjGXenXOWffI90= =4sRX -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: [gutvol-d] DocBook
by Joshua Hutchinson 06 Jan '05

06 Jan '05

You can repost them in ROT-13 for all we care. ;) However, what *we* will post in much more limited. Specialized readers are typically not supported on PG's website. Josh ----- Original Message ----- From: "David A. Desrosiers" <hacker(a)gnu-designs.com> To: "Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion" <gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org> Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] DocBook Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 10:09:23 -0500 (EST) > > > > People should feel free to repost Project Gutenberg eBooks in any > > and all formats they wish. > > Does that include formats which require specialized readers, > such as Microsoft Word, or mobile formats, such as Plucker? > > David A. Desrosiers > desrod(a)gnu-designs.com > http://gnu-designs.com > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d

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Re: [gutvol-d] Re: German texts and the m-dash
by Joshua Hutchinson 06 Jan '05

06 Jan '05

In my experience, HTML files DO currently switch -- to — However, the text files use -- because the — entity equivalent doesn't exist in 7bit ASCII. I think I've seen this discussion before on DP forums. If I remember correctly, it was decided to stick to the xyz--xyz standard simply to avoid confusion and complication. Josh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karl Eichwalder" <ke(a)gnu.franken.de> To: gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: German texts and the m-dash Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 21:24:48 +0100 > > Andrew Sly <sly(a)victoria.tc.ca> writes: > > > I remember clearly an exchange of email with a new white-washer > > about spaces around emdashes in a German text I was submitting. > > I was arguing that many other German texts in PG and other > > places seemed to have the spaces; he was arguing that the files > > should be prepared "to standard" before being submitted. > > Something along these line I read, too. But I thought the > post-processors or white-washer would use a special switch to prepare > German texts more like traditional German texts ;) For HTML I prefer > "xyz zyx" instead of "xyz--zyx". > > -- > http://www.gnu.franken.de/ke/ | ,__o > | _-\_<, > | (*)/'(*) > Key fingerprint = F138 B28F B7ED E0AC 1AB4 AA7F C90A 35C3 E9D0 5D1C > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d

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