December 2005 - gutvol-d - lists.pglaf.org

Re: [gutvol-d] differentiating between indentation and no indentation after p...
by Gutenberg9443＠aol.com 22 Dec '05

22 Dec '05

In a message dated 12/20/2005 7:12:21 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, wally.thompson(a)gmail.com writes: I'm working on a book that has poetry within the text. Sometimes a poem ends the paragraph and sometimes it does not. So I'm wondering how to handle this in the text file without leaving it ambiguous. Wally, could you provide a brief example? I don't do much with proofreading on PG, but I am a book publisher. If I saw an example in which the poem ends the paragraph and the poem does not end the paragraph, it would help. Are you saying that in some cases the poem is within the paragraph and the paragraph continues after the poem, or that the paragraph ends but the poem carries over to the next paragraph? I've seen both, and of course they're handled differently. Anne

7 6

re: [gutvol-d] differentiating between indentation and no indentation after p...
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 22 Dec '05

22 Dec '05

if you create a .zml master -- which is a heckuva lot faster and easier than creating a .tei master -- you don't have to worry about the html or pdf, as they can be generated automatically... -bowerbird

1 0

Re: [gutvol-d] differentiating between indentation and no indentation after p...
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 22 Dec '05

22 Dec '05

jon noring said: > Bowerbird is the expert on this jon, i know what they teach you in the dale carnegie courses about "how to win friends and influence people" is to flatter people's egos until they will do whatever you want them to... and i grant it is astoundingly effective. but that crap doesn't work with me -- precisely because i'm hip to it -- so you shouldn't waste your breath... and please stop making yourself look silly by trying to tell people all about z.m.l., because you don't know jack about it... as for the p.g. e-texts, most of them are already _in_ z.m.l. format, or close to it, so "remastering them" in z.m.l. will be a task so simple a 4th-grader can do it, mostly verifying my tool's auto-formatting. and from that, multiple goodies will follow. but i'm still waiting to do that "remastering" until you markup fools throw away a lot more of your precious time and energy. a _smart_ poker player doesn't show his hand too soon when he knows he's got the other players beat, he gets them to put their money in the pot first. ok, now back to not talking to jon directly, since he moderates posts by michael hart over on his listserve, and i firmly believe that a pioneer like michael deserves more respect. -bowerbird

3 2

re: [gutvol-d] differentiating between indentation and no indentation after p...
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 22 Dec '05

22 Dec '05

jon ingram said: > It would be more sensible to mark the poem > (indeed the whole work) in TEI, > and use that as the canonical version. um, no thanks... > Hopefully within a couple of years > almost all the work DP produces > will be in a format which will enable us to > produce multiple document versions > (HTML, text, PDF, LaTeX) with > very little human intervention required. it's interesting that "the magical time" is always _a_couple_of_years_, isn't it? when i came to this list two years ago, it was "a couple years" away. and it still is. like a mirage, it's always within sight, but somehow never gets any closer... nonetheless, it looks like roger frank has made some good progress lately. keep up the good work, people... > Hopefully within a couple of years > almost all the work DP produces > will be in a format which will enable us to > produce multiple document versions > (HTML, text, PDF, LaTeX) with > very little human intervention required. i can produce text, html, and pdf with a .zml file today. so big whoop. -bowerbird

2 1

Re: [gutvol-d] differentiating between indentation and no indentation after p...
by Joshua Hutchinson 22 Dec '05

22 Dec '05

----- Original Message ----- From: "Wally Thompson" <wally.thompson(a)gmail.com> > > Actually, I've intended to use TEI or something more capable to create > a canonical version from the start. My original questions merely had > to do with the plain text version, which I'm trying to prepare without > losing too much information. > Ifyou do create a TEI master, and you follow the PGTEI v0.4 DTD ... you don't have to worry about the txt and html. (or pdf) They will get generated automatically from the TEI master. If you want some help or a second set of eyes for this, give me a holler. I'd be happy to help out. Josh

1 0

re: [gutvol-d] differentiating between indentation and no indentation after p...
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 22 Dec '05

22 Dec '05

lee said: > The problem is that historically Project Gutenberg > has been considered a NMA (No Markup Allowed) zone. just because _you_ can't "see" the markup, lee, doesn't mean that it isn't there... one or more leading-spaces in a line is a signal that the line should not be wrapped to the line above it... as you are someone who worked on "tidy", i'd have expected that you'd be familiar with this convention, since -- to the best of my knowledge -- tidy uses it... there _are_ difficult cases. but the ones wally gave are straightforward applications of dirt-simple rules... > Perhaps the right thing to do is to consider > the XHTML version as the canonical version um, no thanks... -bowerbird

5 6

re: [gutvol-d] differentiating between indentation and no indentation after p...
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 21 Dec '05

21 Dec '05

lee said: > Absolutely not. In essence, ok. i stand corrected. on tidy. but tidy was primarily an aside. (however, you are now officially _exonerated_ for not knowing of the leading-space convention.) as for z.m.l., the rules stand. any line of poetry must have one or more leading spaces. (the number of spaces should indicate the desired indent.) this prevents the line from wrapping to the line above it, in a rewrap situation. it also prevents the line below it from wrapping to it, by the way. because of this simple rule, a poem (or a block quote, or any of many other structures) that is embedded in a paragraph is always quite easy to recognize, whether it ends the paragraph or not. i've written another message that covers wally's specific examples in detail, so any questions should be deferred until i've posted that... -bowerbird

1 0

re: [gutvol-d] differentiating between indentation and no indentation after poetry
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 21 Dec '05

21 Dec '05

dave said: > When producing a .txt file it is easy. > > I insert spaces at the beginning of a line, > just as I do when programming. > > My paragraphs are just two consecutive new lines. > > IME tabs can be anything from 2 to 8 spaces > and so often display wrongly. bingo. there's the "right" answer. thanks dave. -bowerbird

1 0

re: [gutvol-d] differentiating between indentation and no indentation after p...
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 21 Dec '05

21 Dec '05

carlo said: > This shows once more that > presentational markup with blank lines only > is insufficient to capture all the informations. um, do you mind if we let a person who has actually _developed_ a zen markup language that makes use of blank lines answer this question, please? because i certainly _have_ an answer... but let's tackle first things first, ok? wally, you should receive some _prize_ -- and i will give you one, i will indeed -- for doing the work that led you to ask this question, so thank you sir! :+) -bowerbird

1 0

How do we submit audio versions of PG texts?
by Jon Ingram 19 Dec '05

19 Dec '05

I've been doing some volunteering for Librivox recently[1], and would like to know the best way to submit the end product (human-read versions of PG texts) to PG. [1] http://www.librivox.org/ -- Jon Ingram

7 12