September 2005 - gutvol-d - lists.pglaf.org

Re: [gutvol-d] signing off
by Gutenberg9443＠aol.com 30 Sep '05

30 Sep '05

In a message dated 9/30/2005 11:21:03 AM Mountain Daylight Time, collin(a)xs4all.nl writes: >Hey guys, have fun with your Bowerturd Appreciation Society. I >thought this list was about discussing things that have to do with >Project Gutenberg, but I guess I was wrong. Please come back. I just posted this: I just got through reading my email on this screen name. Yesterday, after leaving it unread for about three weeks due to the fact that I was busy writing/rewriting/rewriting a book, I came here and read and/or deleted all of it. Today I had 60-odd new posts, a few of them personal or spam; but somewhere between a third and a half of them were to, from, and/or about that bird guy. iBastante! iCallate! (If you're not up on your street Spanish, that means Enough! Shut up! Having recently purchased three books of Street Spanish for the book I was writing I could be much ruder, but I don't want to get bleeped.) Don't we have better things to talk about, like what is the square root of -1 and why do we have to use numbers that don't exist in order to do math? Why couldn't we just stop after plane geometry? I have never in my life needed anything beyond eighth- grade math, except for a little plane geometry such as convincing my former husband that the third side of a triangle is always shorter than the sum of the other two sides provided the road is good. (I mention this only because of Professor Smarandache, who is kindly allowing us to post his books which, I gather from looking at his Website, would give Einstein a headache.) Anne Do you like to breathe? Then save the trees! Begin a personal relationship with an ebook TODAY!

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Re: [gutvol-d] That bird guy
by Gutenberg9443＠aol.com 30 Sep '05

30 Sep '05

I just got through reading my email on this screen name. Yesterday, after leaving it unread for about three weeks due to the fact that I was busy writing/rewriting/rewriting a book, I came here and read and/or deleted all of it. Today I had 60-odd new posts, a few of them personal or spam; but somewhere between a third and a half of them were to, from, and/or about that bird guy. iBastante! iCallate! (If you're not up on your street Spanish, that means Enough! Shut up! Having recently purchased three books of Street Spanish for the book I was writing I could be much ruder, but I don't want to get bleeped.) Don't we have better things to talk about, like what is the square root of -1 and why do we have to use numbers that don't exist in order to do math? Why couldn't we just stop after plane geometry? I have never in my life needed anything beyond eighth- grade math, except for a little plane geometry such as convincing my former husband that the third side of a triangle is always shorter than the sum of the other two sides provided the road is good. (I mention this only because of Professor Smarandache, who is kindly allowing us to post his books which, I gather from looking at his Website, would give Einstein a headache.) Anne Do you like to breathe? Then save the trees! Begin a personal relationship with an ebook TODAY!

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Felix Holt copyright ?
by Rod Butcher 30 Sep '05

30 Sep '05

Greetings from Sydney Australia, my first post here. As a literature student who has made use of free online gutenberg texts, I thought I'd like to put something back. I couldn't find George Eliot's Felix Holt and thought maybe I could scan and proof-correct it as my contribution. Then I wondered why has it not already been done , as it is a standard text... is there a copyright problem ? As I understand it, it is in public domain in the US since it was written before Jan 1923, also here in Australia since the author died more than fifty years ago. But my UK Wordsworth Classics edition has a text copyright notice. How can they do this ? I find a similar copyright notice in other Wordsworth texts, but not in Penguin Classics. Is there some kind of "publisher's copyright" separate to the "author's copyright ?" which means I have to find an edition that doesn't assert any copyright ? Or does UK copyright work differently ? thanks Rod -- http://distributedcomputing.info - find out how to make your pc work for the community

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re: [gutvol-d] on the issue of hand-crafted versus computer-generated .html versions
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 30 Sep '05

30 Sep '05

jared said: > You, sir, are a troglodyte whose opinions > aren't given much heed to many here. isn't it strange how everyone's calling me "sir" these days? and marcello's obsession, doing google-searches on me and all, is quite a tribute, don't you think? i mean, i know he likes me and all -- if i were ever feeling lonely, i'd know all i'd have to do is to make a post, and bingo!, just minutes later i'd have a reply, and have any of you had someone put up a "fansite" for you? -- but like i said, y'all might want to consider _pacing_ yourselves. i can keep up this pace. i am a fast typer, and i've written up these ideas so many times already i can do it in my sleep, plus i always keep my cool in the flamewars, since i buy the kind of fire-retardant foam they use on the airport runways and i get it really cheap because i buy it by the tanker-truckload, but you, you guys, you're getting all emotional with terms like "slimeball" and "troglodyte", and i'm afraid one of you might blow a gasket. you might want to take a deep breath, relax, count to ten... :+) -bowerbird

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re: [gutvol-d] on the issue of hand-crafted versus computer-generated .html versions
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 30 Sep '05

30 Sep '05

aaron said: > So, you're suggesting that all of the typographical information > found in the html file is also found in the text file? geez, aaron, it's a little bit late in the game to be asking this same old basic question once again... i'm suggesting that "all of the typographical information" that is "found in the .html file" can be put into a text file, yes i am, that is the very essence of what z.m.l. is about. and i demonstrate that by converting the z.m.l. file into .html, from whence it can be converted into any number of formats. i also demonstrate conversion of the z.m.l. directly into a .pdf. i can also create image-books (scansets) and ipod note-versions. y'all don't _include_ all of the information in the text-file right now, but you could fix that if you really wanted to, and it would be a whole heck of a lot easier than doing .tei. that's why i'm telling you you're wasting your time doing .tei. but you know what?, i've told you that, over and over and over, and you're all determined to waste your time doing the .tei, so why should i care? go ahead and waste your time. it's your time, and you can choose to waste your time any darn way you want... *** > To your mind, it seems that everyone is the bad guy oh please, all of you guys are too pathetic to be "the bad guy". i look at you and laugh. you're so unsure of yourselves that you don't even want to listen to somebody critique your work. > And the volunteers who are doing the work are what? > Are they idiots? Do they not realize that > their time is being wasted? no, i don't believe they do realize it. anyone who does realize it will simply stop doing any proofing on the site... or maybe they don't care that half their time is being wasted, because the other half is going to a good purpose. that might be good enough. as for me, i do my obligation to trying to inform 'em, and if they don't want to listen, i'm freed of my responsibility... but, having grown impatient now, i'm taking my research out into the world. perhaps it will ignore me to. fine by me. or perhaps people will listen. fine by me too. i'm a messenger. -bowerbird

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Copyright, continued
by Wallace J.McLean 30 Sep '05

30 Sep '05

----- Original Message ----- >From Greg Newby <gbnewby(a)pglaf.org> Date Thu, 29 Sep 2005 22:56:17 -0700 To Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion <gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org> Subject Copyright <1923 (Re: [gutvol-d] Re: gutvol-d Digest, Vol 14, Issue 64) > Publishers don't make it easy to tell whether the item is > public domain. You can go to your local bookstore and pick > up many Penguin, Dover or Barnes & Noble classics that seem > to be copyrighted. In that case, we might need to do a comparison. > Maybe the copyright just applies to notes, an index, cover > art, an introduction, or a preface? We often determine that > the main text is public domain, and the added stuff is not. And in many countries -- and I wish I could figure out the state of the US and Canadian law -- there's the edition copyright... but of course, for most works which are popular enough to have Penguin or B&N editions (not necessarily the same for Dovers and other facsimile presses) the works are usually old and popular enough to have gone through numerous, easy-to-access, pre-1923 imprints. Not only that, I frankly don't trust modern paperback editions of classics; have they repeated errors introduced in later editions? deliberate misrepresentations of the text carried out by squeamish heirs after the death of the author? bowdlerizations or nice-ification?

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no thank you, carlo
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 30 Sep '05

30 Sep '05

carlo said: > Greg, it may be useful to put the list > on moderation for a couple of days, > and in this period redirect the posts to gutvol-p. no thank you. i've been defamed _here_ for many months now, with dishonest talk about "vaporware" and so on, and i've been challenged to show my process works. that's what i've already starting doing this week, and that's what i'm going to continue to do next week too. right here on gutvol-d, thank you very much. the examples i'm posting have relevance to everyone who is volunteering for project gutenberg in any way, because they show a direction the project can take... -bowerbird

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re: [gutvol-d] That bird guy
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 30 Sep '05

30 Sep '05

greg said: > We've tried something like this with gutvol-p, to > shunt some of the implementation talk away from gutvol-d. > I still think this is a good idea, but somehow conversations > often end up back on gutvol-d. Possibly because > it's a bigger soapbox, with a larger subscribership. i originally communicated only on gutvol-p. when i was shouted down there, i moved here, because i hoped people would be more civil in a bigger room, with more onlookers present... and for a long time, that was indeed the case. eventually my adversaries became emboldened here as well, and resumed all the nasty tactics... i can play it any way you want. i prefer being on-topic, because i've got a _lot_ of things to say. but if others prefer to pick a fight with me, a fight is what they'll get. meanwhile, i will keep posting examples, and as the weight of the evidence builds, i expect the flak to be more heated. so pay very close attention to who is doing the misdirection... -bowerbird

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re: [gutvol-d] That bird guy
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 30 Sep '05

30 Sep '05

greg said: > are not the type of thing I like to see on *any* list. then pay attention to who is driving threads off-topic, and let them know what you think about it, and why. i'm posting examples right now, and i'm going to explain those examples. if i can do that in peace, i'll be perfectly happy to do that and nothing more. i don't care if anyone replies to my posts. so if people want to get this over with quickly, then stop responding. but if i'm attacked, i will defend myself. it's that simple. -bowerbird

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Re: [gutvol-d] That bird guy
by Doug Schroeder 30 Sep '05

30 Sep '05

Greg (a great friend of PG in so many ways): >Speaking as a P.T.B., you are correct. Targeted/selected moderation >is a little too much like censorship. Complete moderation is too much >work. >But see my last paragraph below. Censorship is not an issue here; there is no government involved in keeping his ideas unspoken. No one, myself included, has a right to write here. He's got his ZML yahoo group. Not too popular. Greg again: >Here's a suggestion, for anyone interested: How about a "best of" >list, where only selected messages get posted? That's how this type >of issue has been handled on the cypherpunks list. Don't waste the effort. E-mail is easy to filter. I'd suggest the mores of the list should be followed or the boot given. Over the years, I have many times had BB, performance poet, going to the trash or retuned to sender. That solves MY problem, but he still destroys the GLOBAL list for everyone else. The list need not change or mutate to work around individual bad behavior. If you want to move BB, performance poet, crud somewhere, how about nowhere. Again, he has his ZML yahoo group. Again, not too popular. Also, don't moderate the list. Too much work for too little gain. Just kick his arse out. Leslie's lover (BB) powerpoet-ed: >i originally communicated only on gutvol-p. >when i was shouted down there, i moved here, Bzzt. You were kicked out. You've been kicked out a couple of times on gutvol-d too. The equation is simple. Contribute and deliver significantly more than you criticize. Then you will be taken seriously. This is why you are not.

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