March 2006 - gutvol-d - lists.pglaf.org

Re: [gutvol-d] well, this is interesting
by Joshua Hutchinson 16 Mar '06

16 Mar '06

Not to be a smart-ass ... but you better stop now, Dave. Commercial publishers snarf PG stuff all the time. I bought a lovely two volume set of all the OZ books for my son last year. As we were reading it, I noticed some typos and such. On a hunch, I compared the typos to our files. They are snarfed PG text (and didn't even proof it again) and stripped the PG notices and printing a book. Personally, I don't have a problem with commercial interests using PG/DP stuff. As long as they don't try to claim an additional copyright (which they sometimes do) or leave the PG trademark in place and not pay us (which I've never actually seen). Josh > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Fawthrop" <hyphen(a)hyphenologist.co.uk> > To: "Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion" <gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org> > Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] well, this is interesting > Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 08:40:23 +0000 > > > On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 08:18:55 +0000, "Dave Doty" <davedoty(a)hotmail.com> > wrote: > > |From: Dave Fawthrop <hyphen(a)hyphenologist.co.uk> > | > |>*If* this happens I wonder how many volunteers DP will lose. > | > |Why would they lose any? > > Because I do books for PG, Pro Bono Publico. > Any dilution of this principle by association with commercial organisations > would concern me. > -- > Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk> > Freedom of Speech, Expression, Religion, and Democracy are > the keys to Civilization, together with legal acceptance of > Fundamental Human rights. > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d >

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re: [gutvol-d] well, this is interesting
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 16 Mar '06

16 Mar '06

dave said: > *If* this happens I wonder how many volunteers DP will lose. well, i would guess an agreement has _already_ been forged, or else the d.p. name wouldn't have been used. but i don't see that it should cause the loss of many volunteers, because the aim remains to get e-texts out there. after all, anyone can take the e-texts from project gutenberg and do _whatever_they_want_ with them, just as long as they don't use the name of project gutenberg, right? that's what the public domain is all about. and yes, it is kind of sleazy to use public-domain content as the "free samples" to bring people through the door for your commercial content, but what would we do about that? hell, some of these guys sell the public-domain stuff as well! (and if they can sell what we give away, more power to 'em.) i think i've made it perfectly clear that i'm not a fan of either rothman or noring, and i have long observed they have been trying to get their mitts on project gutenberg, so this doesn't surprise me from their end, but it's curious d.p. played along. -bowerbird

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re: [gutvol-d] re: google and the translation thing
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 15 Mar '06

15 Mar '06

michael said: > However, I think it is more likely, not less, that > someone else should come along to replace me in time. at this point, with cyberspace well-established, and the sheer logic of electronic books (and all manner of other types of digital content) recognized by all, any people who "come along" are stepping into a _completely_ different river. so, um, no, they won't be "replacing" you... good thing, too, because i think one of you is quite enough, thank you very much... :+) -bowerbird

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re: google and the translation thing
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 14 Mar '06

14 Mar '06

michael said: > I wonder how long it will be before we see > other people out there committed to a lifetime > career dedicated to the advancement of eBooks? i think you're unique, michael, and always will be. that's not to negate the _serious_ committment of time and energy and love that _many_ people are donating to the cause, such as juliet at d.p. among others there, or nicholas hodson, or david harrada, or the whitewashers, and a whole slew of us others. but none have been as instrumental as you... -bowerbird

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re: [gutvol-d] google and the translation thing
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 14 Mar '06

14 Mar '06

michael said: > This is all just nitpicking and progress is being made, > that's all that counts, not now many think ENUF progress. um, it's certainly not "nitpicking". perhaps the fact that "progress is being made" might be "all that counts" to _you_, michael, but maybe something else counts to someone else... i certainly think the _methods_ that people are using to "make progress" is an interesting topic. moreover, i think it's quite fascinating that those people whose methods failed to make progress localize the cause of that failure in some inherent "difficulty of the task" rather than in their methods. they then go on to lambast anyone else who thinks that progress could be made with another method. and yes, there is much precedent for this on this list. for the past few years, a number of people have been telling me that "a plain-text format cannot represent the range of features in paper-books" simply because they could not imagine one that could. but i _can_... and even when i told you, repeatedly, that i could do it, they insisted -- just as vehemently -- that i could not... well, in case you haven't noticed, people, i have begun the process of giving you unequivocal proof that i can. and, just as i've known and predicted all along, you will suddenly become silent with your "that can't be done" song and dance, and will pretend you never said it at all. > "Those doing the impossible > should not be interrupted > by those who say impossible." > Ancient Chinese Proverb but the ones who say it is impossible will keep on trying to interrupt them... because otherwise, their smug picture of themselves as "invited experts" will vanish in a puff of their own vapor... -bowerbird

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re: [gutvol-d] periodic update
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 14 Mar '06

14 Mar '06

joshua said: > why should anyone else do your work for you? it's not my job to send error-reports to a specific place. or indeed, even to prepare the things in the first place... and neither is it your job to forward error-reports on. or anyone else's job either, for that matter. granted... so i don't think anyone can be assessed "blame" here. i'm just curious about how long an error-report will be left laying around before _someone_ acts on it, even though it's _not_ their "job" to do so... -bowerbird

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PG#17945 Mark Twain: Tri Noveloj
by Andrew Sly 14 Mar '06

14 Mar '06

One recently posted PG text (#17945 Mark Twain: Tri Noveloj) might cause some confusion to users regarding its copyright status. This is a contemperary Esperanto translation of three Mark Twain stories. I believe the translator, Edwin Grobe, has recently explicitly released these, and his other translations of American literature, into the public domain. However, this text contains the prominent statement "Copyright 1999", copied from the original printed book. Am I right in thinking this could lead to confusion? Andrew

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re: [gutvol-d] periodic update
by Joshua Hutchinson 14 Mar '06

14 Mar '06

When you've been told repeatedly where the proper place is and you refuse to send them there ... why should anyone else do your work for you? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bowerbird(a)aol.com > > carlo said: > > This is not the proper place to notify errors > > part of the experiment is to see > how long it takes someone to > practice the advice they give me, > and send my error-reports to > "the proper place"...

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re: [gutvol-d] periodic update
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 14 Mar '06

14 Mar '06

carlo said: > This is not the proper place to notify errors part of the experiment is to see how long it takes someone to practice the advice they give me, and send my error-reports to "the proper place"... -bowerbird

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Re: [gutvol-d] google and the translation thing
by Keith J. Schultz 13 Mar '06

13 Mar '06

Maybe one last word here. The EU use MT technologies to translate the bulk. Yet, the produced texts are still manually processed by humans to get it right. If the google method was so good the EU would not need translators since thier written texts as basically similar in all langauges. They are basically formal debates and legistative in form. Keith.

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