March 2010 - gutvol-d - lists.pglaf.org

Re: jim replies to his e-mail
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 29 Mar '10

29 Mar '10

jim said: > Sorry, I do not keep track of what you have done in the past well, gee, but then you say "it didn't work." how about saying something at the time? especially if you're not gonna "keep track"? > if it fails I delete it and move on. that doesn't help you _or_ the programmer. > In the future if your stuff does not work, I will tell you, but > I notice that when I tell you that something does not work, > you are not receptive to that information i don't see how asking for details is being "not receptive". nor do i see how an offer to troubleshoot the problem can be seen as being anything _except_ "receptive"... but you didn't tell me which program you looked at, or how it didn't work, or say _anything_ specific at all. so exactly how _should_ a programmer react to that? > but rather blame the user nobody blamed any user, for anything. > or suggest a workaround where was a workaround suggested? > without acknowledging that > what you are suggesting > is a workaround. again, where was a workaround suggested? for what? you keep saying things that _imply_ some shortcoming, but you never actually describe any actual shortcoming. so, again, how specifically do you think i should react? -bowerbird

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Re: jim replies to his e-mail
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 27 Mar '10

27 Mar '10

jim said: > OK, the typical pattern of experience I've had > with the programs you have asked us to try in the past > is that they appear to install "correctly" and then > when I try to get them to work they literally hang forever, > or take minutes to update the display. huh? which program(s) would you be talking about? i'm quite sure the programs i release do not "hang", not under normal circumstances or ordinary usage. but if they _ever_ don't work as intended, i'd like to hear about it, so i can troubleshoot the cause. so if you can point me to any such program, _do_... otherwise, i'd say you must have my stuff confused. -bowerbird

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[SPAM] daniel reetz and the d.i.y. book scanner community
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 27 Mar '10

27 Mar '10

here's a video of daniel reetz doing a talk at harvard about the home-made $300 scanning station he built, the design and plans for which he continually refined: > http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/mediaberkman/2010/03/23/daniel-reetz-on-the-wh… here are the plans, now released under the g.p.l.: > http://diybookscanner.org/PDF/DIY-High-Speed-Book-Scanner-from-Trash-and-Ch… daniel also started the d.i.y. book scanner community at: > http://www.diybookscanner.org among other people, this community has some cool members; francesco scanned 6 italian dictionaries to put 'em online, and "postscangrinder" did 36,000 pages of high-school yearbooks. -bowerbird

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Re: here's my collaborative proofing system you can look at
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 27 Mar '10

27 Mar '10

jim said: > Well, my first feedback would be that > on my display, which is 1280, > the text to be edited is scrunched down > the left hand margin of the display, and > the digitized page is scrunched down > the right hand margin of the display, with a big > empty no-mans-land on the display in between, > such that one cannot compare one to the other > without constantly swiveling one's head > like a scene out of the Exorcist. well, yes. that happens because the image is right-aligned and the text is left-aligned. but you can bring them together easily, simply by making your window less wide. another solution is to size the text bigger; you'll find this can make it easier to proof, and thus make good use of your big monitor. but whatever you do, don't do head-swiveling... :+) -bowerbird

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Re: jim replies to his e-mail
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 27 Mar '10

27 Mar '10

jim said: > post actual working programs, along with source code, > people can try it themselves and give feedback about > whether it actually proved useful or not. i often post working programs. but i won't post my source code. and sometimes, like with my comparison program, i won't post the program unless/until there is some actual _demand_ for it. i said i'd post my comparison program if 5 people asked for it. so far i haven't heard even one request, other than yours, jim, so i don't see any need to post the program. *** jim said: > Again, post YOUR source code, and working code examples, > and then let's talk about it. well, jim, in the context of posting diffs, i've posted _hundreds_ of examples of the output created by my comparison programs. they take this form: > this line, on the top, came from one file. > this line, on the bottom, came from the other file. *** jim said: > You will find that you your tool whatever it is > you eventually post someday will also have to > deal with these problems, because they are > fundamental to the INPUT domain -- > how two different files match or do not match and why > and what you want to do about it. yeah, that's the exact input-domain that i've been handling -- as files move from pure o.c.r. output to finished text -- and i have been handling it with complete ease and fluidity. pgdiff doesn't seem to be able to handle that particular task with the same ease and fluidity. and maybe, as you suggest, it handles some _other_ comparison task in a better way, but i'm hard-pressed to see what that "other" task might be. but, like i said, maybe the failing is with me. as long as _you_ are happy with your tool, that's all that matters, i would think. *** jim said: > I don't actually ignore the things you ask us to try BB, > it's just that out of courtesy I don't list here all the > PG and DP tools I have tried which really don't work > when I try to use them. I'm happy to list the tools that > I do use that more-or-less work for me if anyone really cares. except in this case i'm not asking for "courtesy", jim. i'm asking for feedback. so feel free to give it, _especially_ on the parts that "really don't work when you try to use them." -bowerbird

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get your knives out, all you haters
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 26 Mar '10

26 Mar '10

i'll be putting my collaborative proofing system out tomorrow, so people can pound on it, and tell me everything that's wrong with it, and how ugly it is. but you'll probably ignore it instead. still, i'm gonna give you haters a chance to get your knives out... -bowerbird

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Re: jim, i have some questions about pgdiff output
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 26 Mar '10

26 Mar '10

jim, i've done my best, i really tried, but i just can't see a use-case for your pgdiff. i did rework some of its output, to show how my tool could successfully aid yours, and i am willing to show that, if you want. but i was starting to get the feeling that i was just turning _your_ output into the output generated by _my_ tool, and how does it help us to have identical output? you've said pgdiff is intended for doing comparisons between different editions, and not ones aimed at finding the small differences that happen during proofing. but, as far as i can see, your output gets mired even on the smaller changes, so i can't imagine it's better on bigger ones. just as one example, there's this: > { [Illustration: } { The } { Bakery } { and } > { Shops } { of } { the } { Russians--Later } > { the | property. } that's a line of text from one of the two comparison files, which got chopped into its individual words. i could only imagine the mess if a whole paragraph or section was added in the second comparison file. so, sadly, i just can't find a use-case here. but, you know, if it scratches _your_ itch, that's all that really matters with a tool... -bowerbird p.s. however, i would really like to hear from anyone who employs jim's tool and finds that it helps them with their goals, because if the failure to see a use-case is _my_ failure, i want to know about it.

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what do distributed book digitizers want?
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 26 Mar '10

26 Mar '10

over on his fadedpage forums, rfrank asks "what motivates users?" it's an excellent question, one that deserves a thoughtful answer... so here's my take on it, which i give partly because i have some disagreements with _some_ conclusions that roger has come to. i phrased these all in an affirmative way, so this could be used as a mission statement (e.g., for my own site, or by others), although the reverse-phrasing will often have made more sense to people... (for instance, "i do not want to be asked to do _unnecessary_ work.") i'd guess that most people would approve of most of my items, so i'd be interested to hear if anybody would challenge any of them... *** what i want as a distributed book digitizer... i want to proof, yes. i want to format too. i want to finish pages. i want to finish books. i want to smooth-read. i want to do a great job. i want to do necessary work. i want to select what i work on. i want to have unambiguous rules. i want to know if i am doing a great job. i want to know when i am making mistakes. i want to see solid proof if i've made a mistake. i want to receive fair credit for work i have done. i want to work in a system that's very transparent. i want to work with others who're doing great work. i want to know my energy is being used productively. i want to know how to improve the quality of my work. i want to know exactly what data the system has on me. i want to be able to challenge the system if acts unfairly. i want to let the world know when i have done a great job. i want to let the world know when i have done a lot of work. -bowerbird

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Re: save those pagenumber references
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 26 Mar '10

26 Mar '10

jim said: > Perhaps there is such a thing as a "stupid answer" since > the answer you gave recently addresses none of the issues I raised. i was quite clear that i was deliberately not answering your questions, precisely because they were stupid, and -- even further -- because their answers were contained in the example i'd given just previously. i'll work very hard, and go far out of my way, to have a good dialog. because i value that. which is the same reason i won't countenance someone polluting that dialog with posts that regress the progress. i've spent years refining my filenaming conventions. you spent 5 minutes and came up with some kindergarten-level questions. use another 5 minutes, and you can answer your own questions. maybe then you'll also know why i would rather spend 10 minutes of my own time writing _this_ post instead of 5 minutes writing a post that answered your stupid questions. -bowerbird

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huge hole of missing months in the listserve archives
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 25 Mar '10

25 Mar '10

i said: > the "historical" reason might be that when he did engage me, > he tried to deny reality, so i rubbed his nose in it, just like you > rub a dog's nose in his pee when he urinates in your house... so i went to look at the archives, because i wanted to document this particular instance, in the hope that someone would call me on the vivid language i used. and what did i find, but a huge hole of missing months in the listserve archives, as shown in the appended list. everything from november 2006 to april 2009 is gone! how did this happen? who was responsible? what can we do to get those archives back? -bowerbird p.s. and speaking of crappy filenames, spelling out the name of the month is supremely stupid, because it means that they don't sort correctly. idiots all over! ------------------------------------------------- > March 2010 > February 2010 > January 2010 > December 2009 > November 2009 > October 2009 > September 2009 > August 2009 > July 2009 > June 2009 > May 2009 > > ---- huge hole here ---- > > October 2006 > September 2006 > August 2006 > July 2006 > June 2006 > May 2006 > April 2006 > March 2006 > February 2006 > January 2006 > December 2005 > November 2005 > October 2005 > September 2005 > August 2005 > July 2005 > June 2005 > May 2005 > April 2005 > March 2005 > February 2005 > January 2005 > December 2004 > November 2004 > October 2004 > September 2004 > August 2004

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