April 2010 - gutvol-d - lists.pglaf.org

Re: DP output is technically obsolete
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 21 Apr '10

21 Apr '10

dakretz said: > Great news! Let's test this thesis. > ... > etext # 200, dated "1995-01-01". > ... > Can anyone from DP tell me how to get the scans? ok, two things... first, it looks like i was wrong when i said that d.p. had stopped maintaining the "ols", so of course my "reason" for their having stopped maintaining it was also incorrect. (or one could say it's _no_longer_ correct, but i do believe it was correct at one time.) at any rate: > http://www.pgdp.org/ols it claims 16,809 "unique books". whether that means 16,809 scansets, i do not know. but the scans for pg#31946 are right there, online... second, the scan-sets from the very earliest books were said to be "inconvenient to get to right now" at one point in time. whether they were located or lost to the wind, i don't know. but that _could've_ included pg#200. the lowest p.g. numbers which are shown as being included in "ols" presently are pg#460 and pg#464, and four without any number. but are you sure that d.p. actually digitized pg#200? -bowerbird

4 3

Re: Typesetting
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 21 Apr '10

21 Apr '10

according to its website, ibisreader can: 1) fetch an .epub from any website, and 2) download it so it can be read offline... jim claims neither of these things is true. i have no dog in this fight. -bowerbird p.s. as i said, _when_ eucalyptus is ipad-native, i recommend it. the fact that it uses p.g. .txt files, instead of .epub files, is a _feature_, not a _bug_... and anyone who makes a claim that a p.g. .txt file is "not an e-book file" is a full-on bloomin' idiot.

3 2

a longstanding question has finally been answered
by Morasch＠aol.com 21 Apr '10

21 Apr '10

> "Then why in gawds name would anyone > want to get an iPad as an ebook reader?" people want the ipad for _lots_ of uses... not just as an e-book reader-machine... the fact that they get an e-book machine thrown in, for free, is icing on the cake... (and many of these users don't even read, which means they don't like cake or icing.) which reminds me... remember back in the day, when one of the most cherished merry-go-round topics on every e-book listserve was whether people would want a _dedicated_ e-book machine or a _multipurpose_ one? gosh, how many pleasant afternoons were spent composing posts on that dependable hobby-horse topic? well, folks, the winner has now been decided. amazon offered up a good dedicated machine. and they've moved about 3 million units so far. and they probably coulda moved twice as many if they would have fixed the obvious problems. throw in all the nooks and sonys, and we've got a downright respectable total for _dedicated_... but, on the other hand, however, we have apple. the iphone/ipodtouch has sold 80 million so far. and the ipad moved 300,000 units on pre-order and first-weekend sales alone, if we trust apple. and the 3g model i await isn't even available yet. so now we know... people prefer multi-purpose... the winner has been declared. which is not to say that all you people with a kindle must send it back. if you're happy with it, that's all that matters, really. -bowerbird

3 2

Re: DP output is technically obsolete
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 21 Apr '10

21 Apr '10

dakretz said: > Summary of the situation (as it seems to me). > DP is currently taking too long to produce texts > that are are either less (plain-text) > or more (DP-style HTML) > than the supply chain is able to convey to the > end-readers to deliver the experience intended. "less" and "more" are value-laden terms. _and_ incorrect. please re-summarize... > Upload in as complete form as possible > the matching image and text files > so future modification and adaptation is possible. > There's no loss to DP by doing so oh dear boy. (just an expression. don is an old man. heck, he might even be _a_grandfather_ by this time.) but don, how much more personal denigration are you going to have to endure at the hands of d.p. apologists before you realize that you do not grok their mindset? let me 'splain it to you... d.p. has, in their hands, the scans from all the books that have gone through their system. so they _could_ have pushed them to project gutenberg at any time... indeed, charlz originally intended that d.p. itself would mount the scans. he called it the "online library system", and at one point in time, it actually came into existence. (it's probably still there, with some 6,000 scan-sets in it.) why hasn't it been maintained? well, _i_ happen to think that it's pretty obvious. but maybe that's because of what i do with those scans: i use them to point to unequivocal evidence of _errors_ in the "final product" emerging from the d.p. workflow. and that's what other people might do with them, too... does d.p. want us unequivocally pointing out their errors? no. ergo, they are keeping their scans to themselves... the myth of d.p. accuracy is one that keeps d.p. going... the powers-that-be over there do not want to put that myth up against _any_ solid evidence to the contrary... and it's not that hard to understand, either. rfrank was eager to see the results of my check on the "sitka" book, at least when he thought that check would be _positive_. but when it was less than flattering, he clammed right up. it's hard for some people to admit they make mistakes... even if they can do it in a "general" way, when it comes to close-eyed examination of specifics, they're uninterested, and might even go to great lengths to suppress evidence... > and the risk is that over time > they are quite capable of losing track of them. they have the scans firmly in their grasp now, and they wish to retain control, so they simply are not worried about "losing track of them"... -bowerbird

3 2

oh geez
by Morasch＠aol.com 21 Apr '10

21 Apr '10

oh geez, now lee is gonna call me "mr. morasch" again... :+) -bowerbird

1 0

summary of the recent discussion of e-books on the ipad
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 20 Apr '10

20 Apr '10

if you wonder if the recent flurry between jim and michael needs to be read, let me save you the time and trouble... according to michael, who doesn't care about the format of the books just as long as he can get to the content inside, it's pretty easy to read e-books on the ipad, especially when one has an always-on connection to the web, in which case one can access many sites, using many viewer-programs, specifically including the native safari web-browser... according to jim, who wants his e-books in .epub or .mobi, getting e-books on the ipad can be a large pain in the ass... jim also complains about the closed nature of the ipad, and prefers his netbook, albeit hasn't reported on whether or not the added weight of the netbook hampers his use of the unit. much drama and misunderstandings and unaddressed points were also part of the recent exchange of e-mails, but i think i've boiled the important aspects. if you have any questions, please feel free to ask them... -bowerbird p.s. if anyone actually _owns_ an ipad, would you report in?

2 1

Archiving of Raw Materials was Re: Re: DP output is technically obsolete
by Kevin Pulliam 20 Apr '10

20 Apr '10

On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 2:35 PM, don kretz <dakretz(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Summary of the situation (as it seems to me). > SNIP > > What can DP do in the reasonable short-term future that would be low risk > and low > effort? > > The first most obvious to me is to start getting serious about passing along > the > raw materials. Upload in as complete form as possible the matching image and > text files so future modification and adaptation is possible. There's no > loss to > DP by doing so; and the risk is that over time they are quite capable of > losing > track of them. SNIP Yes please. Please provide a complete archive of the project files (Scans, text, clearance docs, etc) in an obvious location for all projects and submissions (DP or otherwise). This can be at PG, at DP, at archive.org or elsewhere... I don't care where, so long as it has the same permanence of a PG text, and has the same 'lack' of barriers to access as PG texts. Just as open source projects literally require distribution of the un-compiled code so that future folks can see the foundation of the work as well as the finished product, so can ebooks benefit if future users can (if they choose) see the basis of the work as well as the finished product if they feel like offering an improved or altered version. Thanks! Kevin

1 0

the blind men and the .epub file-format
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 20 Apr '10

20 Apr '10

it's sad y'all know so much, yet so little, all at the same time. lee is correct. but he doesn't know what he's talking about. jim is correct. but he doesn't know what he's talking about. as lee says, an .epub file is just some (x)html files zipped up. as jim says, the .epub files at p.g. often differ from the .html. what neither one seems to know is that marcello's converter doesn't always use the .html; sometimes it uses the .txt file. i don't know the particulars, but it probably has something to do with the nature of the specifics within the .html file... -bowerbird

5 5

Re: Typesetting
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 20 Apr '10

20 Apr '10

jim said: > I want to read ePub or Mobi on a decent ebook reader > which will allow me to set things like font sizes and margins. try ibisreader. > http://ibisreader.com you can try it on your desktop machine to see if you like it. and it's on the ipad. plus it is under _active_ development. i don't know if "eucalyptus" is ipad-native yet, but when it is, i would definitely recommend that as a worthwhile viewer-app. (it has shortcomings, but from a reading perspective, it's fine.) -bowerbird

2 1

Re: the blind men and the .epub file-format
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 19 Apr '10

19 Apr '10

jim said: > Not sure what part of the elephant you've grabbed hold of, > but if you looked at the example in question it would be > obvious that your answer isn't. do you really think i'm going to let myself get wrestled into having a discussion with the blind men about the elephant? if so, think again. i said as much as i can in support of you -- you're half-right. so is lee... if you want to figure out the specifics from there, you're welcome to do so. but you'll be doing that without me. -bowerbird

1 0