- gutvol-d - lists.pglaf.org

Current submissions to PG all go through the DP?
by christine 23 Oct '09

23 Oct '09

> > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Greg Newby <gbnewby(a)pglaf.org> > To: Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion <gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org> > Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12:43:08 -0700 > Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Current submissions to PG all go through the DP? > On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 09:09:41PM +0200, christine wrote: > > If such demands were to arrived at PG, what would PG do ? > > If you mean, what happens when fixes are reported to the errata > email address below: the answer is, that the problems are dealt > with. > > No, I meant what would happen if PG were to receive a mail from a reader saying something like "the ebook #xxxxxx is of bad quality, could you please do something about that". Would PG just say "sorry, nothing we can do", or post in a forum of a DP asking for that book to be redone ? or .... ? > As for Errata, there have been a call made last year for volunteers, I did > > volunteered, were then told I would receive a mail about how to help ... > I > > am still waiting. > > > > Christine (aka Lostpaces) > > Did you respond to me? Or somewhere else? Apologies if you > sent me a note, and didn't get a follow-up. > > There is still work to be done... Greg > > No, it was a "call" from Charles, to which I responded, and I received an answer from him telling me I would receive a mail from someone else. My offer is still there, if you need help with Errata, you now know where to find some. Christine

2 1

Re: Is this the beginning of the end?
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 23 Oct '09

23 Oct '09

i said: > go try reading my post again, and see if you get it that time. i've been informed the point was missed a second time, so i'm happy to explain it, for anyone else who missed it. if -- and as i've made clear, i don't know if it's the case, and i actually _doubt_ it, but _if_ -- h.p. will "clean up" the o.c.r. and then print the books from that clean-up, then that would likely mean "the beginning of the end" of the way we typically now do digitizations of these books. currently, people o.c.r. the scanset; the o.c.r. results are typically fairly bad, and time is spent on cleaning them... however, if h.p. cleaned the o.c.r. first, and then printed out the paperbacks -- on clean pages, with digital type -- the o.c.r. from such paperbacks would be extremely clean. so, if you bought such a paperback, and did a scan of it, the o.c.r. that you got from it would be extremely clean... you would find that "cleaning" that already-very-clean o.c.r. would go very quickly, especially compared to the old way... so it would be "the beginning of the end" of that old way. now, as most people (including me) have said, it's probably unlikely that h.p. will take on the work of correcting the o.c.r.; it'd be much easier for them to just clean and print the scans. (and, since the end-target is paper anyway, that would be ok.) so we are probably _not_ seeing "the beginning of the end" of the "old" way of doing digitizations -- from the scansets. what i was saying had absolutely nothing to do with e-books versus printed books, or the speed of delivery of p-books, or the number of books available from amazon versus p.g., or anything else other than exactly what i have explained here. (although i'm glad whenever anyone brings up the vital issue of the digital divide, even if it is completely off-topic, since we spend too little time thinking about that important topic.) if anyone has any more questions about what i'm saying here, i would be happy to answer them. -bowerbird

1 0

Re: Current submissions to PG all go through the DP?
by christine 22 Oct '09

22 Oct '09

If such demands were to arrived at PG, what would PG do ? As for Errata, there have been a call made last year for volunteers, I did volunteered, were then told I would receive a mail about how to help ... I am still waiting. Christine (aka Lostpaces) > >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: "Al Haines \(shaw\)" <ajhaines(a)shaw.ca> >> > > So far as I know, DP itself has no mechanism for refurbishing its old >> texts. >> >> However, error reports, on any existing PG text, can be sent to >> errata_AT_pglaf.org. (change _AT_ to @). >> >> A report can be as simple as extracting a copy of the problem line and >> submitting it and the proprosed corrected line, up to submitting a fully >> corrected version of the existing etext. In the latter case, the PG header >> and footer should not be tampered with, nor should the file be reformatted, >> so that the Errata team can more easily compare it to the existing text. All >> error reports should mention the book's author, title, and etext number. >> >> For Mr. McCunney's information, not all submissions to PG arrive via DP. >> Most do, but there are a few independent contributors to PG. >> >> Al Haines >> Project Gutenberg >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ricardo F Diogo" < >> ricardofdiogo(a)gmail.com> >> >> DMcCunney at Mobileread has stated that «Current submissions to PG >> all go through the DP proofing process, but there seems no way to get >> existing PG texts dating from before DP resubmitted for cleanup and >> quality control.» >> >> Is this any way true? When did that happen? >> >> Ricardo F. Diogo >> >> > >

2 1

for the love of god
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 22 Oct '09

22 Oct '09

for the love of god, will somebody -- anybody! -- please pull piggy off his "confidence in page" project over at distributed proofreaders... please! anyone! i sincerely believe that piggy is well intentioned... but... the whole thing has been a disaster all the way through. and now he's proposing an even bigger waste of time: > http://www.pgdp.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=30951&start=450 please have the good sense to say "no" to this stupidity. (and for those of you out there who don't know the issue, but take offense at my label of "stupidity", before you bitch, go and actually read the "research" that has been done and then come back and _explain_ it to the best of your ability. because i understand statistics -- took it in grad school -- and i can assure you that these statistics are entirely bogus.) *** as i have said, many times now, time after time after time, there is an _excellent_ way to determine "confidence" that it is not worthwhile to spend more time looking for errors on a page, and that's when 2 people have checked the page and found no errors. or if you wanna be even more certain, draw the cutoff line when _3_ people fail to find any errors... and the easiest way to put in place a "roundless" d.p. system is to simply set the number of rounds to a very high number (such as 11), and then automatically mark a page as "done" in a particular round if it matches exactly the last 2 rounds. (or, to be stricter, the last _3_ rounds.) -bowerbird

1 0

Re: Is this the beginning of the end?
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 22 Oct '09

22 Oct '09

jay said: > No. > Amazon will charge money, and then there is > mail delivery time of a few days. > Except when you buy from another country, then delivery is weeks. > Gutenberg is free, and delivery is immediate -- worldwide. > Let's see . . . Immediate delivery verses days or a week. > Hmm, hard choice. > . . . free verses costly. Hmm, another hard choice. > Not to flagellate the deceased equine here, but > much of the world can't afford Amazon; > No matter how precious books are. > If you are a seamstress in India, and > you make your business work on 50 Rupees a day, > you'll never buy a book. > But you might go to an internet cafe, rent their computer, > and download several books for free. Especially if they > help you with your business. > How much is 50 Rupees? Look it up. > Gutenberg and Amazon/HP are two completely different services. > Apples and Oranges. wow, jay, you managed to miss the point entirely. entirely. go try reading my post again, and see if you get it that time. -bowerbird

1 0

Re: Is this the beginning of the end?
by Christa & Jay Toser 22 Oct '09

22 Oct '09

From Bowerbird: "then, relevant to the point here on this listserve, is this observation: if hp cleans up all the scansets, and prints them nicely to an inexpensive paperback, why should anyone here bother doing a digitization? instead, just buy the paperback . . ." No. Amazon will charge money, and then there is mail delivery time of a few days. Except when you buy from another country, then delivery is weeks. Gutenberg is free, and delivery is immediate -- worldwide. Let's see . . . Immediate delivery verses days or a week. Hmm, hard choice. . . . free verses costly. Hmm, another hard choice. Not to flagellate the deceased equine here, but much of the world can't afford Amazon; No matter how precious books are. If you are a seamstress in India, and you make your business work on 50 Rupees a day, you'll never buy a book. But you might go to an internet cafe, rent their computer, and download several books for free. Especially if they help you with your business. How much is 50 Rupees? Look it up. Gutenberg and Amazon/HP are two completely different services. Apples and Oranges. Jay Toser

1 0

Re: is this the beginning of the end?
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 22 Oct '09

22 Oct '09

gardner said: > There is no doubt in my mind that > this is exactly what they will do. and, as i said, if that's actually what they do, we're in the same boat we've always been in, and this is just another ho-hum news item... > My bet is that they won't even proof the stuff i'm not sure i understand what you mean here; if they print the scans, there's nothing to proof. -bowerbird

3 2

is this the beginning of the end?
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 21 Oct '09

21 Oct '09

is this the beginning of the end? > http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2009/10/hp_amazon_team_on_rare_book_reprin… hewlett-packard is teaming with amazon.com to turn the scansets of the public-domain books from the university of michigan into paperbacks. hp will clean up the scansets, and print them, and amazon will sell those puppies, and split the cash with hp and u.m. it's ironic, because most of the u.m. scansets were done by google... and now amazon will sell them... i am assuming that hp won't just print the scans, but will actually clean up the o.c.r. and print that. if i'm right about that... then, relevant to the point here on this listserve, is this observation: if hp cleans up all the scansets, and prints them nicely to an inexpensive paperback, why should anyone here bother doing a digitization? instead, just buy the paperback, and scan that thing. with clean pages and clear digital printing, the o.c.r. will likely be near-perfect, so clean-up would be easy. now, of course, if hp is merely going to print the scans, then we'd be back in the same boat. but -- otherwise -- is this the beginning of the end? -bowerbird

3 2

let's wind this down
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 21 Oct '09

21 Oct '09

jim said: > 1) If I had submitted this book instead to DP there > would have been a much larger number of punc > errors introduced as "required" by the DP process. what? the d.p. process requires the introduction of errors? > 2) We would all still be waiting for this book, > because I prior submitted two books to DP after > a considerable amount of work on my part and > they have still to see the light of day. Someone > with a practical knowledge of queuing theory > needs to go over these issues with DP. you might want to discuss queuing theory in the d.p. forums. i suppose they would get a lot of good out of that discussion. > 3) I know perfectly well that errors remain unseen, > which is why I would like an input file format that > easily allows another motivated volunteer to > pick up where I left off when my children start complaining > that they are unfed and unclothed and "reality calls" i suppose i've already told you that z.m.l. does just that. i even mounted your very book, so that you could see it. so i don't suppose it'd do any good to repeat it again now. > rather than listening to Bowerbird insult my efforts i pointed out that your .txt version was missing the italics. if you consider that to be an "insult", your skin is too thin... > and insult my integrity simply because > I do not support his favored hack markup schemes no, you failed to support the project gutenberg standard, which calls for italics to be marked in the .txt format... > Presumably I followed the instructions on the PG website no, you most certainly failed to follow those instructions... > http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Gutenberg:Volunteers'_FAQ#V.94._What_sh ould_I_do_with_italics.3F you will see that it says: > Underscores are now the effective standard for italics in PG texts. -bowerbird

4 4

Current submissions to PG all go through the DP?
by Ricardo F Diogo 10 Oct '09

10 Oct '09

DMcCunney at Mobileread has stated that «Current submissions to PG all go through the DP proofing process, but there seems no way to get existing PG texts dating from before DP resubmitted for cleanup and quality control.» Is this any way true? When did that happen? Ricardo F. Diogo

2 1