- gutvol-d - lists.pglaf.org

27 Jun '06

Hi, I am Patrick from ebooksgratuits 1/ As Carlo told you, thank you very much for being concerned by what happened to us. Now, we have moved www.ebooksgratuits.com to a very robust provider, and we will have a mirror soon at www.ebooksgratuits.org , so that it does not happen again. We have now collected some funds through a paypal button and can afford to secure our website. Such a predicament is indeed quite painful. 2/ Moreover,as our clearance process (to use a PG word) is quite light, we are not in a position to justify the life +50 rule on some of our books (some translators especially are hard to find out), which is not something that PG would not want, to mirror help 3/ We have now transferred around 160 books to PG thanks to huge recent help (Chuck Greif) and the enduring patience of Tonya. We are now going on more slowly, as the problem is to find out the sources that can be cleared. 4/ Should we disappear again, be aware that you can also have access plenty of our files through P2P (edonkey/emule), search on "ebooksgratuits". --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail réinvente le mail ! Découvrez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail et son interface révolutionnaire.

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Re: !@!Re: [gutvol-d] ebooks libre et gratuits (fwd)
by Greg Newby 26 Jun '06

26 Jun '06

We could probably run a mirror of this... is anyone in touch with the folks (perhaps in French)? It would take some cooperation from their end (such as an rsync server) to run a good mirror. -- Greg > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 10:25:19 -0400 > From: Janet Kegg <jmk(a)his.com> > To: Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion <gutvol-d(a)pglaf.org> > Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] ebooks libre et gratuits > > > The site is now available again: http://www.ebooksgratuits.com/ > > See the front page of the Web site for what I believe (my French is > almost nonexistent) is an explanation of what happened. > > On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 09:58:58 -0400, you wrote: > > >Ebooks libre et gratuits had an arrangement with MH apparently where their > >books would appear on PG eventually. Now that the ebooks web site is no > >more, what will happen to the ebooksgratuits which did not make it to PG? > >Will all of this work have to be repeated by someone else? Is there an > >archive anywhere of this enormous quantitiiy of work? Why did > >ebooksgratuits disappear? Pressure from Canadian publishers/ government? > >Is there an unknown story here? > > > >nwolcott2(a)post.harvard.edu > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d

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Re: [gutvol-d] Automated readability scores for PG eBooks
by David Starner 26 Jun '06

26 Jun '06

On 6/26/06, Scott Lawton <scott_bulkmail(a)productarchitect.com> wrote: > While I agree that it would not be worth adding readability score if it had much > impact on these and other worthy goals, But if it doesn't, then those goals aren't reasons _for_ adding it. > There are lots and lots of cool things that could be done with the catalog. We could start with the results of stripping the header and running wc on it. That strikes me at least as useful as this result. Also, the ten or twelve most common words in the book after stripping the ten or twelve most common words in the English language. > Even in the context of the above, the scores would provide a great starting point for > being improved with manual cataloging and literacy labeling. I don't think so. It's downright useless for manual cataloging, as it only handles that one dimension. I don't think it will help literacy labeling much, either, which is best done manually. > Don't let the perfect stand in the way of the good. But I don't think having these numbers anywhere prominent is good. Right now our pages only have a few pieces of important information; minutia like this should go to a page linked to a page linked only from the book page, which we can fill with various stats to our hearts content. It also seems a little weird to have some proprietary reading level numbers on the system, instead of the Fog index or the Flesch-Kincaid Readability tests. It feels like an advertisement.

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re: [gutvol-d] Automated readability scores for PG eBooks
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 26 Jun '06

26 Jun '06

david said: > We could start with the results of stripping the header and the "footer", where most of the legalese is these days. does anyone here know the best way to strip both of them? > Also, the ten or twelve most common words in the book after > stripping the ten or twelve most common words in the English language. you'd need to strip more than a dozen. below is a list from wikipedia. there's a strong power-law in word usage. unless you strip 200-500 common words, it probably won't reveal anything very interesting... -bowerbird > http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Frequency_lists Here are the top 100 words (from Project Gutenberg texts) in alphabetical order: a about after all an and any are as at be been before but by can could did do down first for from good great had has have he her him his I if in into is it its know like little made man may me men more mr much must my no not now of on one only or other our out over said see she should so some such than that the their them then there these they this time to two up upon us very was we were what when which who will with would you your

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re: [gutvol-d] the end of the line
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 26 Jun '06

26 Jun '06

jon said: > Well, since I sort of initiated this sub-thread um, you mean since you _hijacked_ the thread... just had to talk about your shiny markup, didn't you? what a debilitating distraction... the need to retain line-breaks has nothing to do with markup. (and your example, which shows the absurd lengths to which a markup mentality will drive a person, was very illuminating, as is all the technoid jargon-jabbering in this "sub-thread".) p.g. introduces its own linebreaks into its plain-ascii e-texts, all without ever entering the markup arena. and i put in my own line-breaks, right here in these posts to this listserve, again without using any markup at all, just the return key. i'll bring this thread back to relevance starting tomorrow... -bowerbird

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Automated readability scores for PG eBooks
by Greg Newby 26 Jun '06

26 Jun '06

Feedback/input would be valued. I've been corresopnding with Simon Ronald at RocketReader.com to see about integrating readability scores into the main PG book catalog. Because we don't have a lot of subject cataloging, one value of this is that it does a good job of identifing children's eBooks (they tend to be "easy"). This is also usable for people seeking to develop literacy or provide literacy instruction, by providing a way of reading something "harder" or "easier" as desired. Take a look at the list below (ten hardest, then ten easiest). The first score is overall, followed by a set of scores that made it up. I had provided some earlier feedback on how "hard" books were not necessarily prose, which is part of what Dr. Ronald is responding to. If you have feedback on the results, or my idea for adding these scores as an element of the catalog search results, please chime in! -- Greg ----- Forwarded message from "Dr. Simon Ronald" ----- Subject: Further Readability Results Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:34:26 +0930 Hello Greg, Here are some further "hardest and easiest" books based on a recent run. The run required 1 hour and 49 minutes to complete. This run classified 15,099 books - being a full scan of the English books. We incorporated a ordered list detection algorithm - some of the books contained (sometimes very noisy) lists of items - we found 162 books in total that were list based. It should be noted that we classified the entire book as list or "not list" based on a threshold -> if the book was a list then each separate line was considered a sentence for the purposes of readability. In time we will incorporate intra book list detection to allow the readability methodology to vary depending on the context within the book. It should also be noted that some of the HTML versions may well contain markup hints such as the use of the <ol> or <ul> HTML tag, we could use these and other tags to improve the quality of sentence chunking. Each entry has a series of 12 percentiles listed after the main readability percentile. These percentiles correspond to the 12 readability attributes in this order. bigword density short word density (-) wordsPerSentences syllablesPerWords profainwordsPerWords numbersPerWords mostCommon1000WordsPerWord (-) commascharsPerWords wordsPerParagraphs letterFrequencyDistributionError adjacentLetterPairsFrequencyDistributionError uniqueStemmedWordsPerWord; 99.914 95 90 95 97 0 79 86 84 79 88 85 90 Note on the Resemblances and Differences in the Structure and the Development of the Brain in Man and Apes (etext2354) 99.907 96 93 90 98 0 71 96 94 49 80 70 96 Original Letters and Biographic Epitomes (etext13203) 99.907 89 86 96 88 95 82 71 94 81 80 67 67 The Great Conspiracy, Volume 7 (etext7139) 99.904 85 87 93 86 0 86 97 75 78 88 78 99 A Biography of Edmund Spenser (etext6937) 99.897 92 90 95 92 88 69 76 90 80 48 60 78 Memoirs of the Court of St. Cloud (Being secret letters from a gentleman at Paris to a nobleman in London) \xe2\x8 0\x94 Volume 1 (etext3892) 99.897 82 92 32 87 88 93 98 87 68 93 83 85 Graf von Loeben and the Legend of Lorelei (etext11066) 99.894 96 93 89 98 80 91 84 97 84 88 36 27 The Modern Regime, Volume 2 (etext2582) 99.887 92 88 73 90 92 82 77 89 45 97 67 76 An Enquiry Concerning the Principles of Taste, and of the Origin of our Ideas of Beauty, etc. (etext13485) 99.887 91 89 88 92 0 64 75 99 96 88 67 96 Giordano Bruno (etext4228) 99.884 99 95 92 99 88 79 84 34 87 66 70 74 Monism as Connecting Religion and Science (etext9199) 99.881 93 91 75 92 94 64 67 77 94 88 67 80 Rise of the Dutch Republic, the \xe2\x80\x94 Volume 22: 1574-76 (etext4824) 99.874 91 92 23 93 80 80 98 95 70 80 91 74 The Principal Navigations, Voyages, Traffiques and Discoveries of the English Nation \xe2\x80\x94 Volume 01 (etext7182) 99.868 97 95 74 99 97 81 91 77 64 27 36 78 Gilbertus Anglicus (etext16155) 99.868 86 95 63 86 0 98 90 89 50 93 89 80 Cessions of Land by Indian Tribes to the United States: Illustrated by Those in the State of Indiana^M (etext17148 ) 99.858 87 87 95 87 80 56 79 93 63 66 83 73 An Essay towards Fixing the True Standards of Wit, Humour, Railery, Satire, and Ridicule (1744) (etext16233) 99.858 91 96 71 90 95 99 99 99 3 2 85 65 Noteworthy Families (Modern Science) (etext17128) 99.858 99 99 5 99 95 92 99 99 68 0 81 87 Roget's Thesaurus of English Words and Phrases (etext10681) 99.854 97 92 89 98 0 83 81 79 95 97 60 57 Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte (etext1346) 99.844 99 99 84 99 80 98 93 14 61 88 83 55 Venereal Diseases in New Zealand (1922) (etext15352) 99.844 96 91 98 96 88 80 74 98 97 66 64 9 Act, Declaration, & Testimony for the Whole of our Covenanted Reformation, as Attained to, and Established in Britain and Ireland; Particularly Betwixt the Years 1638 and 1649, Inclusive (etext13200) 99.844 90 89 96 90 0 79 78 69 87 66 70 97 Dr. Bullivant (etext9249) 99.831 90 88 94 89 80 71 61 96 90 66 30 72 Memoirs of the Court of St. Cloud (Being secret letters from a gentleman at Paris to a nobleman in London) \xe2\x8 0\x94 Volume 7 (etext3898) 99.831 99 99 87 99 99 92 88 27 54 93 94 34 Three Contributions to the Theory of Sex (etext14969) 99.831 95 88 91 92 80 61 67 72 83 93 64 70 Superstition Unveiled (etext15696) 99.831 95 93 45 97 80 89 97 94 43 13 72 80 Aboriginal American Authors (etext9188) 99.824 89 92 88 88 0 90 92 56 54 80 94 84 Transactions of the American Society of Civil Engineers, Vol. LXVIII, Sept. 1910 (etext18012) 99.824 87 99 40 90 0 99 95 94 3 88 92 97 On the Origin of Species (etext8205) 99.798 91 89 93 90 88 69 60 89 86 48 47 74 Memoirs of the Court of St. Cloud (Being secret letters from a gentleman at Paris to a nobleman in London) \xe2\x8 0\x94 Volume 3 (etext3894) 99.798 90 87 85 88 0 81 64 96 84 48 81 94 The Lives of the Twelve Caesars, Volume 11: Titus (etext6396) 99.798 90 86 97 90 0 81 76 90 94 27 76 82 The evolution of English lexicography (etext11694) 99.798 73 81 96 78 98 56 54 95 72 66 89 96 A Modest Proposal (etext1080) 99.798 95 96 41 97 0 95 96 79 54 98 78 78 Webster's March 7th Speech/Secession (etext1663) 99.798 91 92 47 92 92 50 87 87 87 66 64 89 Rise of the Dutch Republic, the \xe2\x80\x94 Volume 01: Introduction I (etext4801) 99.798 88 86 77 88 95 50 73 73 97 80 72 83 Rise of the Dutch Republic, the \xe2\x80\x94 Volume 26: 1577, part III (etext4828) 99.785 95 85 98 90 88 75 71 92 94 66 56 32 The Auchensaugh Renovation of the National Covenant and (etext12381) 99.785 93 92 81 92 88 92 85 98 84 80 24 16 The Modern Regime, Volume 1 (etext2581) 99.785 70 78 92 75 92 81 79 94 87 48 52 82 The Mayflower and Her Log; July 15, 1620-May 6, 1621 \xe2\x80\x94 Volume 5 (etext4105) Easiest 4.176 2 1 11 2 0 0 1 36 9 48 78 11 The Song of the Blood-Red Flower (etext12935) 4.176 0 0 11 0 0 0 15 48 8 2 94 6 Six Little Bunkers at Grandma Bell's (etext14623) 4.176 14 8 27 12 0 0 9 15 10 27 41 7 Melbourne House, Volume 2 (etext12964) 4.176 7 3 6 4 0 0 5 3 9 66 86 23 The Romantic (etext13292) 4.176 17 5 14 10 0 0 1 12 48 48 6 23 The Girl from Montana (etext15274) 4.176 7 6 13 7 0 0 11 27 22 27 56 9 Jess of the Rebel Trail (etext15382) 4.176 5 3 8 3 0 0 0 2 45 66 60 25 Stories of American Life and Adventure (etext15597) 4.176 3 8 13 6 0 0 12 3 72 1 78 13 Kazan (etext10084) 4.176 11 5 8 8 0 0 12 1 9 48 94 11 The Second Honeymoon (etext17446) 4.176 13 9 10 12 0 0 13 8 3 48 36 23 The Circus Boys on the Plains : or, the Young Advance Agents Ahead of the Show (etext2478) 4.176 19 11 11 15 0 0 10 26 42 27 9 1 The Captives (etext3601) 4.176 0 1 12 1 0 0 2 3 49 27 90 29 Old Granny Fox (etext4980) 4.176 0 0 6 0 0 0 2 0 19 27 89 54 Sleepy-Time Tales: the Tale of Fatty Coon (etext5701) 4.176 0 0 12 1 0 0 10 6 31 2 93 40 The Adventures of Johnny Chuck (etext5844) 4.176 2 3 11 3 0 0 7 1 12 5 85 54 Tale of Brownie Beaver (etext6754) 4.176 12 7 19 8 0 0 9 7 55 5 52 13 The City of Fire (etext7008) 4.176 23 9 10 15 0 0 13 16 18 13 3 29 The Man with Two Left Feet^M (etext7471) 4.176 4 5 13 5 0 0 8 15 40 5 80 21 Way of the Lawless (etext9903) 3.931 11 7 11 8 0 0 14 7 36 2 85 9 The Hunted Woman (etext11328) 3.931 4 1 14 2 0 0 1 34 44 27 64 3 Mary Marie (etext11143) 3.931 12 8 22 11 0 0 10 20 15 13 41 13 Contrary Mary (etext17938) 3.931 0 0 3 0 0 0 0 1 0 98 97 29 The New McGuffey First Reader (etext1489) 3.931 4 7 18 6 0 0 7 33 21 13 56 9 Martin Pippin in the Apple Orchard (etext2032) 3.931 8 9 8 8 0 0 1 12 48 13 64 23 Twenty-Two Goblins (etext2290) 3.931 9 8 9 8 0 0 7 5 43 27 72 13 God's Country\xe2\x80\x94And the Woman (etext4585) 3.931 12 11 11 13 0 0 6 12 60 27 13 14 The Valley of Silent Men (etext4707) 3.931 5 2 23 3 0 0 6 16 10 13 80 23 The Boy Scout Camera Club, or, the Confession of a Photograph (etext7356) 3.931 8 9 15 10 0 0 17 4 6 5 81 21 Bob Cook and the German Spy (etext9899) 3.676 16 6 8 10 0 0 25 3 3 13 76 13 The Three Sisters (etext11876) 3.676 7 2 10 3 0 0 3 17 43 27 78 11 His Second Wife (etext17259) 3.676 6 5 17 6 0 0 14 33 24 5 60 3 Michael O'Halloran (etext9489) 3.384 12 7 6 10 0 0 28 0 20 27 13 32 The Sheriff's Son (etext17043) 3.384 1 0 17 1 0 0 9 36 11 5 88 9 The Bobbsey Twins in the Great West (etext5952) 3.384 6 3 7 4 0 0 3 24 20 13 52 34 Pan (etext7214) 3.384 0 0 5 0 0 0 2 1 20 5 93 59 Five Little Friends (etext7801) 3.384 0 1 7 1 0 0 13 0 11 1 88 53 The Tale of Sandy Chipmunk (etext9462) 3.109 0 0 6 0 0 0 0 19 0 2 93 50 Boy Blue and His Friends (etext16046) 3.109 8 3 10 4 0 0 1 30 19 27 75 6 Wanderers (etext7762) 2.874 1 2 56 2 0 0 0 33 32 2 9 5 Twilight Land (etext1751) 2.874 0 0 13 0 0 0 11 38 9 1 91 6 The Curlytops on Star Island (etext5989) 2.666 0 0 10 0 0 0 6 44 9 13 76 7 The Bobbsey Twins at Home (etext18420) 2.666 0 0 34 0 0 0 0 1 43 48 64 5 The King of Ireland's Son (etext3495) 2.460 7 11 12 11 0 0 8 3 70 5 19 16 Baree, Son of Kazan (etext4748) 2.460 10 9 11 10 0 0 2 15 9 13 52 21 Samuel the Seeker (etext5961) 2.255 6 1 2 2 0 0 28 1 7 80 30 14 Plays (etext10623) 2.255 12 13 14 14 0 0 11 4 23 5 30 14 King of the Khyber Rifles (etext6066) 2.255 3 3 19 3 0 0 6 11 13 13 64 23 Riders of the Silences (etext9867) 1.917 4 2 7 3 0 0 11 4 7 48 89 6 Anne Severn and the Fieldings (etext10817) 1.785 0 0 15 0 0 0 0 9 13 5 72 36 Fifty Famous Stories Retold (etext18442) 1.507 8 4 17 6 0 0 21 0 24 13 19 16 The Light in the Clearing (etext14150) 1.507 9 7 21 8 0 0 3 2 30 27 13 14 Voyages of Dr. Dolittle (etext1154) 1.507 0 0 2 0 0 0 43 22 3 27 30 2 Six Plays (etext5618) 1.391 4 6 18 6 0 0 9 0 24 5 67 6 The Secret Garden (etext17396) 1.391 12 9 8 10 0 0 16 7 21 13 2 19 Black Jack (etext9925) 1.080 10 4 14 6 0 0 8 9 14 5 24 19 The Gay Cockade (etext16433) 0.742 4 4 14 4 0 0 5 3 55 2 6 16 Isobel : a Romance of the Northern Trail (etext6715) 0.440 0 0 5 0 0 0 2 2 0 1 97 16 Bunny Rabbit's Diary (etext16982) 0.281 6 3 6 4 0 0 22 2 8 5 19 6 Mary Olivier: a Life (etext9366) Cheers, Dr. Simon Ronald CEO The Leader in High Performance Reading Level 2, 25 Gresham Street, Adelaide, SA, Australia, 5000 GPO Box 944, Adelaide SA 5001 Ph. +61 8 8410 2771 Fax. +61 8 8125 6679 1133 Broadway, Suite 706 New York, NY 10010 Ph: (646) 736 7673 (New York) Ph: (415) 992 5412 (California) Fax: (877) 731 4410 (toll free) ____________________________________ ----- End forwarded message ----- ----- End forwarded message -----

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re: [gutvol-d] ebooks libre et gratuits
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 26 Jun '06

26 Jun '06

unlimited distribution rocks big time... major fucking concept... -bowerbird

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re: [gutvol-d] Automated readability scores for PG eBooks
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 26 Jun '06

26 Jun '06

greg said: > one value of this is that it does > a good job of identifing children's eBooks > (they tend to be "easy"). checklist said: > bigword density > short word density (-) > wordsPerSentences > syllablesPerWords > profainwordsPerWords > numbersPerWords > mostCommon1000WordsPerWord (-) > commascharsPerWords > wordsPerParagraphs > letterFrequencyDistributionError > adjacentLetterPairsFrequencyDistributionError > uniqueStemmedWordsPerWord; aren't scientists silly? :+) look, greg, if you want a list of children's e-books, or a list of "easy" e-books, or any kind of list of books, just ask the distributed proofreaders people for the list... they'll give you a long list of books, any kind of list you want, and you won't have to do one little bit of fancy-ass statistics... i'm serious, they can give a list with p.g. e-text numbers and meaningful notes, and funny little stories, and _everything_... much more vivid than your boring-ass statistics... :+) -bowerbird

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the end of the line
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 25 Jun '06

25 Jun '06

as i watch all these p.g. e-texts float across my screen, i just can't help but have some thoughts recur to me... in the old days, when -- for some very good reasons -- a p.g. e-text was considered to be an _amalgamation_ of different versions of a book (even when it really was not, a fiction advised by p.g. legal counsel at that early time), that gave a good reason to remove end-line hyphenation and reflow text (without hyphenation) to p.g. margination. after all, hyphenation mostly causes problems in e-books. in the current era, however, where most p.g. e-texts are pegged to a specific version of a book (and where, for the most part, the scans are now retained to cement this direct correspondence), it no longer makes sense to discard the line-breaks, or even the end-line hyphenation, to be frank. yes, end-line hyphenation should be _marked_ in some way, so it can be automatically eliminated, but the _default_action_ should be to retain it. it would defeat the purpose of saving the line-breaks if you didn't also retain end-line hyphenation, because the goal here would be to duplicate the print version. (don't bother arguing that there would never be such a desire; maybe you'd never have any need for it, but _someone_ might. i can think of half-a-dozen such reasons -- want to hear them?) if you want to see what the future of electronic-books looks like, see the "digital reprints" that jose menendez has been producing. > http://www.ibiblio.org/ebooks/Mabie/ > http://www.ibiblio.org/ebooks/Cather/ > http://www.ibiblio.org/ebooks/Einstein/ the deep links to the actual .pdf "digital reprints" are these: > http://www.ibiblio.org/ebooks/Mabie/Books_Culture.pdf > http://www.ibiblio.org/ebooks/Cather/Antonia/Antonia.pdf > http://www.ibiblio.org/ebooks/Einstein/Einstein_Relativity.pdf aside from the unfortunate fact that jose is using the .pdf format (a format which makes it far to difficult to repurpose the content), these "digital reprints" carve out an awesome model for e-books. they replicate the original paper-book to a high degree of fidelity, and do so using a small percentage of the disk-space of the scans. yet because it is an e-book, it gives all the benefits that they give. (at least it _would_, if it wasn't a .pdf. but that part can be fixed.) and the secret of these "digital reprints" is extremely simple, folks; all that jose has done is merely to retain the original line-breaks... so, once again, i recommend and request that you start retaining this valuable information, instead of intentionally tossing it away. (it is very ironic, to me, that distributed proofreaders _retains_ the line-breaks during their proofing -- because it makes that process so much easier -- but then they discard the line-breaks! hey, there might be some end-users out there who need 'em too!) honestly, folks, when i look at your p.g. e-texts, what i see is that they're gonna be thrown on the trashpile one day -- maybe soon. in a world that is awash in scans, and where o.c.r. is a commodity, it'll be trivial to convert those scans to text. so if someone needs to have the ability to duplicate the print version -- i.e., they _need_ to have the line-break information you are routinely discarding -- they'll simply o.c.r. the scans again. they will be required to do that, because your e-texts simply won't do the job that they want done... that's not to say that your p.g. e-texts will be _completely_ worthless. as an independent digitization, they'll go a long way toward helping to move any new o.c.r. effort up to an absurdly high level of accuracy. but since the absurd level of accuracy can be applied to either e-text, and since the new effort will have retained the line-break information, that will be the one that's retained. the p.g. e-text will be thrown away. and it would break my heart to see all your hard work just thrown away. on the other hand, if y'all started retaining that line-break information, then it'd be _your_ version which would be kept (because of its primacy), and the new o.c.r. effort would just be seen as a tool to increase accuracy. if project gutenberg wants to remain as the premiere library in cyberspace, you're going to have to fix this glitch, and do it quickly. mark my words... -bowerbird p.s. at some of you aren't good at reading between the lines, i'll tell you that i intend to mount such a massive o.c.r. effort, so the question about which version, p.g. or not, receives the higher accuracy is a very real one. i don't want to challenge the p.g. library, _unless_ you've made it deficient. i'm trying to help you by giving you this advice before it becomes crucial...

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re: [gutvol-d] the end of the line
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 23 Jun '06

23 Jun '06

i said: > (a format which makes it far to difficult to repurpose the content), haha. "far to difficult". i made a boo-boo. > p.s. at some of you aren't good at reading between the lines "at some of you"...? wow. two mistakes (at least) in one post. good thing it's friday... ;+) -bowerbird

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