- gutvol-d - lists.pglaf.org

An Error, eye strain, solution.
by rvijay07 16 May '05

16 May '05

I have beenr eading the E-Books as such in my browser last week. The fonts were a little extra small. Hence, after three days I endedup with red, watery and irritated eyes. Maybe I must read the E-Books by opening them in Open Office with larger fonts. Vijay _______________________________________________ No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. Make My Way your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com

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Re: [gutvol-d] Question regarding naming for CSS (gutvol-d Digest, Vol 10, Issue 25_
by Lee Passey 16 May '05

16 May '05

On Sun, 15 May 2005 21:11:13 -0400, Janet Kegg wrote: > On Sun, 15 May 2005 17:50:44 -0700 (PDT), Andrew Sly wrote: > > > Ok, new topic of discussion. > > > > I'm putting the finishing touches on a book for PG. There will be > > an html file made as well as plain text. This book includes a > > decent amount of quoted letters and other documents in it. Fairly > > often, there are headers and/or footers to these which are aligned > > to be close to the right margin. > > > > So I made a simple CSS declaration for these: > > > > .dateheader {text-align: right; margin-right:2em;} > > > > However, as I progressed through, the name "dateheader" began to > > seem little inaccurate. The content is also sometimes the name of a > > place or a person, or a brief phrase. > > > > Any suggestions for a more general (but still accurate) name I > > could use for this CSS selector? > > > I suggest .alignright > > Also useful for signatures. (I actually use .ar -- I like short and > easy to type.) > > -- Janet One of the problems with marking the text with a class that describes the presentation (aside from the fact that it's not structural) is that it implies a presentation which may not actually be correct. Note that Andrew does not say that this text is to be right aligned, but "aligned to be close to the right margin." Consider the last example given (modified to be a generic block so as to not imply "paragraphness"): <div class="dateheader"> HERCULES ROBINSON. S.J.P. KRUGER. S.J. DU TOIT. N.J. SMIT.</div> In this particular case, we don't want the text to be right-aligned, we want it to be left-aligned, but shifted significantly out towards the right margin. In the pirate community I have seen these types of blocks identified as being of type "headfoot", presumably because it is primarily used for headers and footers of correspondence. I also know that TEI has an element for this type of thing (although the precise name escapes me at the moment, and I'm far to lazy to go look it up); assuming that the element name is "signature", you could use a class name, for example, of "TEI_signature", indicating that if it were a TEI element it would be the "signature" element. More important than the actual class name used is the notion that it ought to be the same as everyone else uses, so that some uniformity of naming is achieved. Myself, I'd probably opt for "headfoot", not because it's the best or most descriptive, but simply because it seems to have some currency. Now a quick word about the use of the element. Despite what many people seem to think, the element is _not_ a generic block element, it is to be used to indicate paragraphs. Clearly the aforementioned signature block is not a paragraph, and should not be identified as one, particulaly as there already is in common use an element designed _to be_ a generic block element: <div>. Personally, when I encounter a class name like "dateheader" which is obviously intended to move text near the right margin but maintain left alignment, I change the CSS definition to remove the alignment attribute, and instead add the style "margin-left:65%". This moves the block well to the right-side of the viewport, but also scales well when the window is resized. I also like my paragraphs to be indented, so my default CSS includes "p { text-indent:3em }". Now if you combine these two styles, and make the aforementioned signature block a element, you would get something like this (imagine the whole block being moved 2/3 of the way across the page: HERCULES ROBINSON. S.J.P. KRUGER. S.J. DU TOIT. N.J. SMIT. The answer to this problem is simple: if your English professor wouldn't call it a paragraph, use the <div> tag instead.

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re: [gutvol-d] re: you guys crack me up
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 16 May '05

16 May '05

marcello said: > You lose. > Godwin's Law: prov. i didn't mention the h-word or the n-word. you did. i talked about george w. and republicans, and the censors on this very listserve... if i wrote a book, would you burn it? -bowerbird

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Re:making CD / DVD best of 2005--how and which books?
by bill 16 May '05

16 May '05

I know this is likely not practical but I would like to see a read-only medium where the legalese was exised out of the texts and stored in a license.txt in the root of the file system. This would save a ton of space and allow for more texts within the iso.I appreciate that the legal text has changed over the years and is not consistant for all books but a notation "Licence--#01" or whatever at the head of the book would allow you to cross-reference the license file. Surely a one line system such as this would save bandwidth and storage space while maintaining whatever legal requirements that must be met.

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Re: [gutvol-d] Heebee Jeebees on Gutenberg
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 16 May '05

16 May '05

jon noring said: > abbyy7 + your-sooper-dooper-tools = no-more-need-for-DP well, let's do the equation right, ok? opticbook3600 (most other scanners will start you off wrong) + careful scanning (note that this is _oh_ so very important) + image correction (deskewing and zoning regularization) + abby v7 (and using the old-book version whenever needed) + super-duper-tools, used wisely, for about 4 hours/book = an error rate of 1 error every 10 pages, good enough for + continuous proofreading (with scans available for viewing) + freshly-informed-and-motivated end-users looking for errors + a comprehensive error-detection system + a comprehensive error-reporting system + a comprehensive error-correcting system + a comprehensive system designed to foster community = a steady march toward absolute perfection in the e-texts you can sprinkle in as much or as little d.p. as you want. they are the _cooks_, and not an ingredient in the recipe. and they aren't _required_ for a meal, but they sure help! a ton of dedicated people with expertise and experience! responsible for _half_ of p.g. by the time it hits #20,000! without doubt, _the_ dynamic force in digitization today! more uplifting than google, and million-books, and kahle! (well, kahle is a large factor in their success, but still)! > but it is *equally* important to understand, and markup, > the *structures* associated with all portions of the content. > This is something that *has* to be done by human beings. > It cannot be done automagically, at least with anything near > acceptable accuracy (as shown by a few trivial examples > I posted here a while back.) blah blah blah. your examples are bull. you didn't send them here, you sent 'em to ockerbloom's list, and he would not allow my response to go through, since it destroyed your positions so thoroughly. (it was _complete_; he took it as _mean_.) repost your examples if you have the courage. given the normal degree of consideration for consistent formatting, my apps can determine the structure of a text in a matter of seconds, even on my "legacy" mac, less than the acrobat splash is up... :+) -bowerbird

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re: you guys crack me up
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 16 May '05

16 May '05

i told you jim didn't want to get smarter. you guys crack me up. :+) and fascism is alive and well in the united states in the 21st century, from the white house on down. but there is no shortage of soapboxes in cyberspace; and with google pulling everything together for people, it is more difficult to be invisible than to be found, so _try_ to relegate my free speech to your "protest zone". just try... -bowerbird

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Re: [gutvol-d] Question regarding naming for CSS
by Joshua Hutchinson 16 May '05

16 May '05

I'm guessing, based on your examples, that you want the CSS to be structural. Personally, I'd just mark it as .right {text-align: right; margin-right:2em;} But that is naming according to presentation as opposed to structural. Josh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Sly" <sly(a)victoria.tc.ca> To: "Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion" <gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org> Subject: [gutvol-d] Question regarding naming for CSS Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 17:50:44 -0700 (PDT) > > Ok, new topic of discussion. > > I'm putting the finishing touches on a book for PG. > There will be an html file made as well as plain text. > This book includes a decent amount of quoted letters > and other documents in it. Fairly often, there are > headers and/or footers to these which are aligned > to be close to the right margin. > > So I made a simple CSS declaration for these: > > .dateheader {text-align: right; margin-right:2em;} > > However, as I progressed through, the name "dateheader" > began to seem little inaccurate. The content is also > sometimes the name of a place or a person, or a brief > phrase. > > Any suggestions for a more general (but still accurate) > name I could use for this CSS selector? > > > Here are a few example of where I have used this class: > > > > PRETORIA, April 20, 1879. > > > My last letter had not been gone many hours by the mail express when > Lanyon ran into my room, to tell me that the Boer camp was actually > broken up and the Boers dispersing. > > ================== > > The Committee can add nothing to the above, and feel that there will > not be one man among the thousands who have joined the Reform > movement who will not find it consistent with honour and humanity to > co-operate loyally in the carrying out of the Committee's decision. > > > By order of the Committee. > > ================== > > 'Notice is hereby given that this Committee adheres to the National > Union Manifesto, and reiterates its desire to maintain the > independence of the Republic. The fact that rumours are in course of > circulation to the effect that a force has crossed the Bechuanaland > border renders it necessary to take active steps for the defence > of Johannesburg and preservation of order. The Committee earnestly > desire that the inhabitants should refrain from taking any action > which can be construed as an overt act of hostility against the > Government. By order of the Committee, > > > 'J. PERCY FITZPATRICK, > 'Secretary.' > > ================== > > > JOHANNESBURG, S.A.R., > 24th March, 1899. > > GENTLEMEN, > > In response to the invitation from the Government of the South > African Republic conveyed to us by Mr. E. Lippert, we beg to submit > the enclosed memorandum upon the franchise question. > > ================== > > <h4>ARTICLE XX.</h4> > > This Convention will be ratified by a Volksraad of the South African > Republic within the period of six months after its execution, and in > default of such ratification this Convention shall be null and void. > > Signed in duplicate in London this 27th day of February, 1884. > > > HERCULES ROBINSON. > S.J.P. KRUGER. > S.J. DU TOIT. > N.J. SMIT. > > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d

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re: well, yeah, sometimes even i feel like screaming
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 15 May '05

15 May '05

melissa said: > Could you please take private your ongoing > discussions of whose penis is bigger? ... > Can you please be quiet, PLEASE? yeah, sometimes i too get so bored with the tedium of the noring merry-go-round that i also absolutely feel like screaming. that observation i made about noring not knowing when he's passed the point of diminishing returns is quite applicable to his listserve discussions too. i _do_ realize when i'm testing subscriber patience, however, so i should be smarter about terminating. sometimes i opt out, as when i declined to respond to his challenges earlier on the bookpeople list, but then he mentions it months later, as if he had "won". if jon weren't so tenacious about spreading his "project gutenberg e-texts are untrustworthy" message to every nook and cranny of cyberspace, i probably wouldn't feel the need to address him. (but yes, i believe this campaign of his _does_ make what he says relevant to p.g. volunteers, and thus germane to this listserve in particular. it's certainly not a "private discussion" anymore, let alone one about "penis size", as you've put it.) but i suppose i should let it go, since -- unlike jon -- i do _not_ believe perception equals reality -- it's just temporary confusion -- so i do not think his attempts to manufacture a reality by creating the perceptions he wants to spin actually "work". so he's harmless. he thinks he's effective. he's not. on the other hand, even though jon resorts to personal attack at times, which i give back to him in spades, at least he mixes in a good dose of on-topic thinking in his threads too. so compared to the number of people on this list who dish attacks _exclusively_ in their replies to me, without ever even _touching_ the matters under discussion -- and your message here is an example -- jon's posts have _some_ redeeming value... even if his thinking is often badly muddled, at least he is trying to _do_ some thinking. how many other _thoughtful_ conversations happen on this list? i can't remember many. (kudos to vijay for his jump-start attempts; the enthusiasm of new converts is a real kick. it's just too bad there isn't a wiki that could help them negotiate a road already well-trod, get them up to speed before they lose steam.) i mean, the project gutenberg e-text library is one of _the_ shining examples of the potential to bring literacy into 21st-century cyberspace, which means it should be tremendously exciting, but you wouldn't know it from _this_ listserve, as it more closely resembles an old ghost-town. so, melissa, how about you? what is _your_ thinking on how the error-rate in the e-texts can be lowered? after all, some of them bear your name. surely you want them to be right? what do you think about jeff's google experiment? how do you think the project could be promoted? what issues do _you_ think need to be discussed? i've found the best way to get a listserve back on-topic is to post cogent messages, and not complaints about the other people. light a candle instead of cursing darkness. that's what i try to do. i am sure that you could've learned something from my posts, including the recent rounds, if you wanted. i'm sure that some people managed to do so. but also, of course, if you desire to remain oblivious, you can stop reading my messages. and if you're already not reading them, then it takes a mere quarter-second to poof a post. surely the burden of pressing the delete key can't be all _that_ pressing on you, can it? and hey, if it _is_, then perhaps you could learn how to use filters in your e-mail app. that way, you don't even have to press a key. there's no reason for you to _unsubscribe_. or were you just using a little hyperbole to make your point? it's fine if you were; i'm fond of using a little hyperbole myself. but i don't want to be insensitive to your request, even if you didn't pose it politely. so i'll cut back the frequency of my posts addressed to jon, to no more than 1 a day, so as not to overwhelm any e-mailboxes... so thanks for your feedback, melissa, and i hope to hear some input from you on more substantive issues as they come up here... -bowerbird p.s. so how big is _your_ penis?

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What is the last good NON PG E-book(s) you came across ?
by rvijay07 15 May '05

15 May '05

A few more collections !!! http://www.freeonlinereading.com/links.htm http://www.talewins.com/Browzer/novels.htm http://www.bygosh.com/thebestnovels.htm http://www.bibliomania.com/ http://www.e-book.com.au/freebooks.htm http://www.free-online-novels.com/ _______________________________________________ No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. Make My Way your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com

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What is the last good NON PG E-book(s) you came across ?
by rvijay07 15 May '05

15 May '05

Look at this collection !!! http://www.etext.org/Fiction/ Here is a related Site: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/5116/ Vijay :) _______________________________________________ No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. Make My Way your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com

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