- gutvol-d - lists.pglaf.org

Re: !@!Re: [gutvol-d] [Fwd: Folio files]
by Joshua Hutchinson 15 Dec '04

15 Dec '04

You're missing the point I'm trying to make, Michael. Keep the history. No problem. Just don't make it the DEFAULT that pops up when someone does a search. Joe User couldn't care less about our history. He just wants to read the book. So, give him the book that he CAN read. Put the "historical mistake" in the OLD subdirectory, where it is still available for those of us that care about such things. Josh PS I think the pop culture Simpsons reference flew right by you. ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Hart" <hart(a)pglaf.org> To: "The gutvol-d Mailing List" <gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org> Subject: Re: !@!Re: [gutvol-d] [Fwd: Folio files] Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:56:56 -0800 (PST) > > > On Wed, 15 Dec 2004, Joshua Hutchinson wrote: > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Michael Hart" <hart(a)pglaf.org> > > > >>> > >>> So any chance we can convert this file to a text file, make that the main > >>> entry and move the .nfo file to the OLD subdirectory? > >>> > >>> Josh > >> > >> Please stop trying to rewrite history. . . . > >> > >> This should be kept as a straighforward example > >> of what can and DOES happen with proprietary formats. > >> > >> > > > > Sorry. Gotta call bullshit on this one. Keeping the file in the OLD > > subdirectory maintains the history for those that wish to find it, while > > allowing better usability for those folks that simply want to read this > > particular work. > > Barnyard epithets aside, this is too important to sweep under the carpet. > > There is plenty of usability in other formats, so leave it be. . . . > > > > How frustrating do you think people would be if they went to their local > > library, found a book in the catalog that they wanted, but the only place > > they are allowed to access the book is in a backroom that is pitch black. > > Yeah, they have the book, but it is completely useless to the reader. > > That's the whole point. . .so don't hide it. . .MAKE the point, publicly. > > > > So, yeah, we have the book in PG... but it is completely useless to you. > > No. . .it's available in other formats. . .if you take a look. > > > > > > /nelson-voice-from-The-Simpsons > > > > HA HA > > > > /end-nelson-voice-from-The-Simpsons > > > > Josh > > > > Yes, you are correct, you are making a silly argument. > > > The President of Folio came to visit us here, > and promised the free Folio reader. . . . > > Of course this is ancient history to you, > but some of us remember, and do not want > such an effort wiped out of our history. > > It was a LOT of work. . . . > > Leave it be. . . . > > > Michael > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d

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Re: !@!Re: [gutvol-d] [Fwd: Folio files]
by Joshua Hutchinson 15 Dec '04

15 Dec '04

----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Newby" <gbnewby(a)pglaf.org> > > On Tue, Dec 14, 2004 at 03:56:11PM -0800, Andrew Sly wrote: > > > > > > On Tue, 14 Dec 2004, Marcello Perathoner wrote: > > > > > Michael Hart wrote: > > > > > > > It is VERY important to keep example of files that once had free readers > > > > that are available no longer. . .if nothing more than examples of why we > > > > don't put everything into any particular proprietary format. > > > > > > Would there be a better way to keep those "examples" than to keep them > > > in the collection buried beneath a ton of other files where they just > > > pop up per chance to disgruntle users who inadvertently download them ? > > > > > > > When old files get reposted in the new directory structure, > > any formats like this, that cannot be updated, are moved into > > an "old" directory. > > > > Is that something like what you were thinking? > > > > Andrew > > While this is our usual method, unfortunately this > particular title (#900) is its own eBook # in the > Folio format. > > May 1997 Decline/Fall Of The Roman Empire, by Gibbon, Folio[dfre310f.xxx] 900 > > I think this is the only .nfo file we have. > So any chance we can convert this file to a text file, make that the main entry and move the .nfo file to the OLD subdirectory? Josh

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!@!Re: [gutvol-d] [Fwd: Folio files]
by George Davis 15 Dec '04

15 Dec '04

Apologies for coming in late here, but it should be noted that the following entry was added to the GUTINDEX in April, 2003: May 1997 Decline/Fall Of The Roman Empire, by Gibbon, Folio[dfre310f.xxx] 900 (NOTE: in proprietary Folio .nfo format; Vol. 3 only.) (See also: #890-895 for HTML format, #731-736 for plain text.) Also the following notes, especially for #892: Apr 1997 Decline/Fall Of The Roman Empire, by Gibbon V6 htm[dfre6xxh.xxx] 895 Apr 1997 Decline/Fall Of The Roman Empire, by Gibbon V5 htm[dfre5xxh.xxx] 894 Apr 1997 Decline/Fall Of The Roman Empire, by Gibbon V4 htm[dfre4xxh.xxx] 893 Apr 1997 Decline/Fall Of The Roman Empire, by Gibbon V3 htm[dfre3xxx.xxx] 892 [This vol only also available as plain text in dfre3xx.txt/.zip] Apr 1997 Decline/Fall Of The Roman Empire, by Gibbon V2 htm[dfre2xxh.xxx] 891 Apr 1997 Decline/Fall Of The Roman Empire, by Gibbon V1 htm[dfre1xxh.xxx] 890 [Author: Edward Gibbon] (Note: The above 6 files are HTML conversions of ebook #'s 731-736) Occasionally, one may find other tidbits of useful information inside GUTINDEX.ALL, especially for some of the more esoteric items. It is a holding place for such info until such time as something better comes along. For example, the above may or may not be useful when updating a bibrec in the future. And as I haven't expressed an opinion lately, herewith is mine for #900: #900 should be moved to /9/0/900/old/, and a 900-readme.txt or dfre310f- readme.txt should be placed in /9/0/900/ explaining the situation, including the reasons it has not been discarded; it _is_ a part of PG history, as documented in the newsletters over the years, and prior to that, in the various maillists. And besides, it makes for lively discussions every couple of years. If no one else wants to, I'll write a brief (less than 10K words?) readme when the time comes to "update" this posting. FWIW, [<G>eorge]

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Re: !@!Re: [gutvol-d] [Fwd: Folio files]
by Joshua Hutchinson 15 Dec '04

15 Dec '04

----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Hart" <hart(a)pglaf.org> > > > > So any chance we can convert this file to a text file, make that the main > > entry and move the .nfo file to the OLD subdirectory? > > > > Josh > > Please stop trying to rewrite history. . . . > > This should be kept as a straighforward example > of what can and DOES happen with proprietary formats. > > Sorry. Gotta call bullshit on this one. Keeping the file in the OLD subdirectory maintains the history for those that wish to find it, while allowing better usability for those folks that simply want to read this particular work. How frustrating do you think people would be if they went to their local library, found a book in the catalog that they wanted, but the only place they are allowed to access the book is in a backroom that is pitch black. Yeah, they have the book, but it is completely useless to the reader. So, yeah, we have the book in PG... but it is completely useless to you. /nelson-voice-from-The-Simpsons HA HA /end-nelson-voice-from-The-Simpsons Josh

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Re: [ebook-community] Google Question for Michael Hart
by Michael Hart 15 Dec '04

15 Dec '04

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004, Roy Lewis wrote: > > What is Michael Hart's take on the latest from Google? I wonder how > this will impact Project Gutenberg? Will this do what you have been > trying to do but with a LOTS of MONEY behind it? > > Roy Lewis > Garland, TX Today is the day I have to write and send the Project Gutenberg Weekly Newsletter, and I have only 2:20 to the deadline, so I hope you will allow me to come back to answer that in a bit, but if you have a specific question I hope I can answer right away. However, I think you will find that these billion dollar giants don't actually have anything in mind that would be definable as an eBook as the term has been being use. . .i.e. you can't keep it, you can't print it, you can't cut and paste quotations that are more than a "snippet," as they call it, you can't make your own concordance, index, edition, or carry a million dollars of retail value books with you on a DVD or two. In addition, I guarantee that Project Gutenberg will be the first to offer such a "Million Dollar DVD" of eBooks, and will be the first to present a collection of 50,000 eBooks, and, most liklely will be the first to offer 100,000 eBooks for any kind of service, but certainly for free download. As for getting into the millions, I'm going to wait until we're approaching 100,000 to focus all that tightly on getting into 7 figures of eBooks. BTW, they said 15 million eBooks. . .and I'm not sure they HAVE 15 million eBooks that they can legally use in the worldwide service they announced yesterday. I'd certainly be willing to bet dinner on it! More later, Thanks!!! So Nice To Hear From You! Happy Holidays!!! Michael Give FreeBooks!!! In 39 Languages!!! As of December 12, 2004 ~14,683 FreeBooks at: ~317 to go to 15,000 http://www.gutenberg.org http://www.gutenberg.net We are ~96% of the way from 10,000 to 15,000. Now even more PG eBooks In 104 Languages!!! http://gutenberg.cc http://gutenberg.us Michael S. Hart <hart(a)pobox.com> Project Gutenberg Executive Coordinator^M "*Internet User ~#100*" If you do not receive a prompt reply, please resend, keep resending.

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[Fwd: Re: [webgroup] ibib's downtime/server resore]
by Marcello Perathoner 15 Dec '04

15 Dec '04

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [webgroup] ibib's downtime/server resore Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 19:49:42 -0500 (EST) From: Paul Jones <pjones(a)metalab.unc.edu> CC: webgroup(a)lists.ibiblio.org this morning we lost the fileserver for the first time in 2 years of continuous uptime. it took until nearly 4 o'clock EST USA to get us back, but we're back now and the response time is fine for pages and even for my mysql driven blog. -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster(a)gutenberg.org

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[Fwd: Folio files]
by Marcello Perathoner 15 Dec '04

15 Dec '04

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Folio files Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 22:45:42 -0000 From: Charles Crosby <charlesjcrosby(a)btinternet.com> To: <webmaster(a)gutenberg.org> I have downloaded a folio version of Gibbon's 'Decline and Fall...' What program do I need to read it? Hoping you can be of assistance, Charles Crosby. -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster(a)gutenberg.org

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Re: [gutvol-d] Google Partners with Oxford, Harvard & Others to Digitize Libraries
by Greg Newby 14 Dec '04

14 Dec '04

Here's an extract from http://searchenginewatch.com/searchday/article.php/3447411 '"In-copyright" books that are in these collections will have basic bibliographic information available but the full text will not be accessible. Smith told us that out-of copyright material will be available in full text, though printing will be disabled when viewing this content.' This doesn't sound like competition to PG, to me, and in fact the second sentence above means they won't even meet my definition of an eBook. Not to say that these things aren't worthwhile. After all, *we* could generate eBooks from scans etc. made available for public domain content. This could be very helpful. As to "why," when a few PG'ers met with Google last year, they stressed that from their point of view, any growth in online content is good for them. More stuff "out there" means there's more for them to find. So, this is partially altruistic, but also partially for the public good. It was interesting to see that UC Berkeley, UIUC and Yale were not among the libraries chosen (those are the 2-4th largest academic collections in the US, after Harvard). -- Greg

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[Fwd: [ibiblio-announce] ibiblio and all sites offline]
by Marcello Perathoner 14 Dec '04

14 Dec '04

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [ibiblio-announce] ibiblio and all sites offline Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 11:47:00 -0500 From: John Reuning <john(a)metalab.unc.edu> Reply-To: help(a)ibiblio.org To: ibiblio-announce(a)lists.ibiblio.org One of the core file servers crashed this morning. All web and ftp services will be offline until this system has been restored. -jrr _______________________________________________ ibiblio-announce mailing list ibiblio-announce(a)lists.ibiblio.org http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/ibiblio-announce -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster(a)gutenberg.org

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Google On-Line Library
by Dennis McCarthy 14 Dec '04

14 Dec '04

FYI, Here is an article about Google on-line library project: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,141433,00.html "The ambitious initiative announced late Monday gives Mountain View, Calif.-based Google the right to index material from the New York Public Library as well as libraries at four universities--Harvard, Stanford, Michigan and Oxford in England." Not sure what their profit angle is. Supposedly public domain works will be free to access. Maybe they get a cut of copyrighted books viewed via this service. --------------------------- Dennis McCarthy nihil_obstat(a)mindspring.com

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