- gutvol-d - lists.pglaf.org

Re: [gutvol-d] [BP] The Future of eBooks
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 10 Nov '04

10 Nov '04

david starner said: > It does a pretty horrid job at that hey, before i skip on out of here, i get to agree with david for once. the catalog just ain't gonna help someone know what kind of book they'd like to read. (and a marc record won't help them either.) that's a job that collaborative filtering will eventually do much better than anything you can do in the form of a catalog of any type. (and the collaborative filtering that amazon uses is absolutely primitive compared to what it could be.) just make e-texts. clean, consistent, clear e-texts. do that, and the rest will take care of itself... -bowerbird

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Re: [gutvol-d] draft TEI conventions and larger example file
by Jeroen.Hellingman＠kabelfoon.nl 10 Nov '04

10 Nov '04

Op 10-11-2004 04:46, schreef jij: > <Jeroen.Hellingman(a)kabelfoon.nl> writes: > > > I use foreign exclusively as a holder for the lang attribute. > > My problem with that, is it means there's no way to transform a > document such that the foreign words are marked differently from > the emphasized words, or not marked at all. Well, the issue of course is that you first have to tag foreign words as foreign, and emphasized words as emphasized, now what if a foreign word is emphasized? The original typography will not always allow you to distinguish those cases. That is the core reason for me using <hi> instead of <emph> or <foreign> or something semantic: I don't always know the intended semantic. However, it is fairly easy to, for example, color all German words in a text green, based on the value of the lang attribute, or to print in roman all italic words in a certain language. Jeroen

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Re: [gutvol-d] [BP] The Future of eBooks
by Joshua Hutchinson 10 Nov '04

10 Nov '04

I've heard this suggestion before, but I think it bears repeating... This sounds an awful lot like a Wikipedia entry. I think a loose partnership between us and wikipedia would be useful here. We have the book and a link could be made from the catalog page to that books entry in Wikipedia. Then, we have a place to put all sorts of information about the book, the author, where it was published, the historical context it was conceived in, ... just about anything someone wants to add. Wikipedia's hyperlinked nature would also allow someone looking up information on, say, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, to get information on all sorts of related Jules Verne books and even perhaps other Science Fiction books in the PG collection ... provided someone takes the time to enter the information. This doesn't solve any catalog problems we may have, but it does address some of the concerns raised by Lynne. And, the only change needed on our side would be a link to the wikipedia article on each book (something that could be implemented piecemeal as someone makes a wikipedia article available). Thoughts? Josh ----- Original Message ----- From: Lynne Anne Rhodes <lynne(a)rhodesresearch.biz> To: Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion <gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org> Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] [BP] The Future of eBooks Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 19:11:28 -0700 > > I'm new around here so please forgive me if I go over old ground. > > I have subscribed to the RSS Recently Posted or Updated feeds and it is truely > amazing to see the way the entries roll in every night. However, it is > frustrating to see when one of the entries is opened up there is little > information apart from the author (with or without dates) and a title. In > most cases I have no idea what the book is about and whether I am interested > in it. > > I, and I am sure many others would love to see a bit more detail such as the > original date of publication and a brief synopsis of the work. Obviously to > enter such information day after day with such a rush of material is far > beyond the resources of a small group of volunteers, however, dedicated. > > Would it not be possible to devise a distributed cataloguing system followng > along the model of DP. For each book "in the frame" a form would be provided > with spaces for the required items. When these were completed (and checked) > the data would then be transferred, in an agreed format--MARC or > otherwise,--to a file held within the books directory tree. In many cases > this information is provided at the time of proofreadng and then it seems to > be lost. > > Obviously some of the infomation might be easy to complete such as book or > serial. However other fields might need research such as key dates, author > bio etc. Also a meaningful synopsis would mean most likely reading the text > or abstracting a portion from another work. I could also see that > multilingual versions might be needed. I would think there are many who would > rise to the challenge of helping in such an endevour, > > Lynne > > > > On Tuesday 09 November 2004 12:26 pm, Alev Akman wrote: > > At 11:06 AM 11/9/2004, you wrote: > > >Andrew Sly wrote: > > >>Taken all together, the PG online catalog does present plently > > >>of information that can help people interact with the collection > > >>in meaningful ways; but it may make professional librarians > > >>roll their eyes. > > > > > >The design philosophy of the catalog database is: > > > > > > To help people find a book they may want to read. > > > > > >That includes both, people who already know which book they want and > > >people who want a suggestion. > > > > > >The catalog database was not designed to be a tool for professionals. But > > >this doesn't mean that I'm not willing to add some functions to help them > > >out, so long as those functions don't get in the way of the primary > > >functionality. > > > > > >Producing MARC records out of existing catalog entries seems to be a > > >pretty forward thing. > > > > Obviously it is not an _easy_ pretty forward thing! Otherwise, the whole > > thing would be in place by now. > > > > On the other hand, PG database may not be capable of the Z39.50 imports but > > there are many MANY (if not all!) library cataloging software packages that > > will do it in a short time. The advantage of importing from the existing > > catalog entries is that we have our pick of what fits our needs for > > especially the subject fields. Of course there is always work to edit and > > customize them for the PG user database. > > > > I don't see why we can't have a commercial software to do most of the work > > and keep the existing catalog as a backup. > > > > And for the record, I have been involved in the PG cataloging effort for > > more than six years and anyone who says I am not interested in it any more > > is clearly not aware of the full facts. It may be quite disappointing when > > one's years of volunteer efforts have been deleted with the "new > > improvements"! > > > > Alev. > > an "official" librarian > > > > > Importing other people's MARC into our database will be much hairier. > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > >Marcello Perathoner > > >webmaster(a)gutenberg.org > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >gutvol-d mailing list > > >gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org > > >http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--- > > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com) > > >Version: 6.0.783 / Virus Database: 529 - Release Date: 10/25/2004 > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d >

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Re: [gutvol-d] [BP] The Future of eBooks
by D. Starner 10 Nov '04

10 Nov '04

Marcello Perathoner writes: > The design philosophy of the catalog database is: > > To help people find a book they may want to read. It does a pretty horrid job at that, then. If you don't know what you're looking for, it's very hard to find it. One step might be making the list of LoC classifications available, so you can scroll down to the list of histories. When I'm looking for something to read, I often look for a list of science-fiction or mysteries. Being in a college library, I miss the spine stickers loudly identifying the genre of the fiction. PG's catalog has nothing in that direction. Another thing I will do is to browse the stacks. I guess if the LoC classifications are available, that would be possible. The thing I would honestly like is the Amazon-style "if you liked this, you might like ...". I don't mean to be harsh in this email, but I'm having a real hard time believing your statement, because the catalog so badly sucks at it. Not that most of the library catalogs I've dealt with have been good at it, but it's never been stated as a design philosophy for them. -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm

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Re: [gutvol-d] draft TEI conventions and larger example file
by D. Starner 10 Nov '04

10 Nov '04

<Jeroen.Hellingman(a)kabelfoon.nl> writes: > Isn't sco gaelic? No. sco has the name "Scots"; gd has the name "Scottish Gaelic". Since they're distinct codes, sco must be the germanic language. > I use foreign exclusively as a holder for the lang attribute. My problem with that, is it means there's no way to transform a document such that the foreign words are marked differently from the emphasized words, or not marked at all. -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm

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Test message why not going through
by Norm Wolcott 06 Nov '04

06 Nov '04

This is a test message which gets scrambled somehow on the way why? nwolcott2(a)post.harvard.edu Friar Wolcott, Gutenberg Abbey, Sherwood Forrest

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Re: [gutvol-d] New Jules Verne Team at Dist Proofreaders
by D. Starner 05 Nov '04

05 Nov '04

Dave Fawthrop writes: > And so looks a shambles on Agent set to a80. MIME has been a standard - an RFC - for quite some time now. I'm not sure that mail agents that don't support that should still be a big concern. -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm

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New Jules Verne Team at Dist Proofreaders
by Norm Wolcott 05 Nov '04

05 Nov '04

A new team Jules Verne 2005 has been set up at DP to help get Verne online by the 100th anniversary in March 2005. DP members can either join the team or read and post messages without joining at http://www.pgdp.net/c/stats/teams/tdetail.php?tid=353 Team members can assist with a number of activities connected with the project. Bi-lingual persons are especially needed for the french texts, and clarification of obscure references. nwolcott2(a)post.harvard.edu Friar Wolcott, Gutenberg Abbey, Sherwood Forrest

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[gutvol-d] thoroughly depressed, and off to collect thoughts in blog
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 03 Nov '04

03 Nov '04

well, i am thoroughly depressed by the specter of four more years of george w. anyway, i will be heading out of here shortly -- off to collect my thoughts and criticisms in a blog, instead of attempting to share them with you here, to be free of the incessant swirl of noise and flack that my detractors here seem to love to throw around me -- so does anyone have any questions for me before i leave? -bowerbird

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Re: [gutvol-d] PG TEI
by Joshua Hutchinson 03 Nov '04

03 Nov '04

----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Lawton <scott_bulkmail(a)productarchitect.com> > > > Also, as noted in http://classicosm.com/xml/feedbackonpgtei.html: In the PG license, section numbers such as "1.A." should appear on the same line as the text that follows -- per the original and to avoid wasting space. > I agree. I'll work on an updated footer to forward on to Marcello. > > > A few notes based on a quick look: > - class=dgp does seem to be overused. > - span class="hi" style="font-variant: small-caps;" is a bit much; how about span class="smallCaps"? > You've got a point. I'll add a todo item to go through the default style and make it more intuitive (ie change the class names where appropriate) and create classes for things like small caps. > I also hate that the HTML is wrapped at 78 (or whatever) chars. I suppose few people will edit the output, but it seems like a wasteful throwback. Don't people have editors that wrap text??? > That you can blame on me. I used Tidy to rewrap everything because of the lots and lots of playing I did with the source code. Marcello's converter leaves the line breaks that were in the original XML source in place. > > Option #1 - Convert the rend="indent" markup to & emsp ; & emsp ; (remove spaces for use). Pro: Degrades gracefully on non-CSS enabled browsers like Lynx. Con: Treats the indent as content. > > I think the XHTML version should be completely modern, e.g. here's one way to indent using CSS: > .indent {margin-left:40px; margin-right:40px} > > There are benefits to an "old fashioned HTML" version, but let's make that a different file, probably 4.01 transitional. > I'm hoping for more discussion on this. I've had fairly heated discussion at DP on it. > > > > >5 - I used <lb /> to indicate a blank line of text (commonly called a thoughtbreak over at DP). Marcello's documentation indicates this isn't what it is truly meant for, though. Anyone see a problem with this implementation? Or see an improvement we should use instead? > > Marcello suggested that a closing and opening div creates a blank line; I'm not convinced that's a good idea in general. > I don't like it definitely from the point of view of having to create the markup. > ===== > > Misc. questions: > > * The following looks like a (minor) error: > <head>Letter XVII</head> > <p>LETTER XVII.</p> > > The latter looks redundant. > My bad. Must have done a copy/paste into the head tag instead of a cut/paste there. > * Was the italics in the original here? > > <p><hi rend="sc">Andover</hi>, <emph>May</emph> 30, 1854.</p> > I went by the text provided by DP on this. I didn't check closely to the original on this type of thing. > * Does the original really have several pages with no paragraph breaks? Yep. Makes for easy reading, huh? ;) Josh

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