- gutvol-d - lists.pglaf.org

Where are the RST manual sources?
by traverso＠posso.dm.unipi.it 05 Feb '12

05 Feb '12

What happened to the master file of the PG-RST manual, PG 181? I can find the manual in several final form, but not in RST. Consultintg these sources is sometimes the only way to understand how to use some feature (and often even this doesn't help). I have copies, but I wanted to send a link to a proofreader that might be interested to try RST. Carlo

3 2

strongly resent, even flatly reject, getting dumped
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 05 Feb '12

05 Feb '12

al said: > And then what happens to their text/HTML files? > Do they get dumped? I can think of at least > four independents (one of whom is me) that > would strongly resent, even flatly reject, > that being done to their files. well, that probably varies from one producer to the next... for instance, david widger probably won't be bothered that he was whitewashed out of marcello's "pride and prejudice". after all, david has his name in _lots_and_lots_ of p.g. books. he probably won't even notice that it was removed from one. and jose menendez probably won't mind too much that his name was erased from marcello's .rst of "sherlock holmes". jose hasn't done many books, so it's probably "no big deal". plus, after all, their work is still available, in the "old" folder, under the "more files" tab, which people peruse all the time. you're familiar with that "old" folder, mr. haines, aren't you? so, you know, al, maybe you're just being "overly sensitive". maybe you should be a bit less "protective" about your work, learn how to be more magnanimous, less needy for "credit". still, i bet you're right that you could find 4 such producers... *** greg said: > I'd like to go ahead and make a way to get these > back into the collection, replacing the originals, > *en masse*. (Actually, we keep the originals, > in an 'old' subdirectory.) I don't anticipate > opposition to this idea, assuming we're tweaking, > not redoing the look and feel crafted by the submitter. oh, wait, al, greg doesn't think there will be any objections. so, see?, i guess we're all good... -bowerbird p.s. this is all so complicated because we can't just _talk_ to people, we have to read their minds, it makes it so hard.

3 2

marcello cheats, and greg's tournament is rigged
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 04 Feb '12

04 Feb '12

so, while everyone else in the tournament has our files slug it out in the ghetto part of town, marcello's go straight into the official catalog. your tournament's rigged, greg. quelle surprise. -bowerbird

2 1

it's friday, after noon, so what's up?
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 04 Feb '12

04 Feb '12

it's friday. after noon. and still no word from any "official" about this tournament. meanwhile jim is apparently uploading more files, again without a change-log letting us know what editing he's done, and why it is an improvement... does he expect that we'll go through all the files, comparing them page-by-page to spot the diffs? *** and who knows how marcello is cheating now? *** i'm tired of sitting around waiting for some word. so, since jim did "aesop's fables", i've done it too. here's my .mobi version, and its sources: > http://zenmagiclove.com/misc/aesop.mobi > http://zenmagiclove.com/misc/aesop.html > http://zenmagiclove.com/misc/aesop.ncx > http://zenmagiclove.com/misc/aesop.opf > http://zenmagiclove.com/misc/aesop.jpg i nixed the images to avoid bloat. (4.4 megs worth.) my version is better than jim's. jim did an ok job... but mine's unequivocally better. judge for yourself. and if you disagree, i'd love to hear your reasons... and if you don't know the ground-rules, me neither. *** so here's a few words of advice for jim, and others... 1. stop posting these baby files, like aesop's fables. there is nothing even remotely challenging about it. the only thing it demonstrates is mere competence, and if mere competence is the thing you have to offer, you don't have anything to offer. is this clear enough? 2. do not bother wasting your time bringing in any "hand-tooled" versions, unless you made something extremely special, and you want to "demonstrate" it. i have programs that do all my work, ones that utilize a _master-file_ approach, and those combined factors will surpass your hand-tooling, in quantity and quality. 3. if you _do_ bring in "something extremely special", you can expect that i'll then code it into my programs. so any advantage you gained will only be temporary... 4. you're welcome to clone the functionality i provide. indeed, i think that will be a smart thing for you to do. however, you may _not_ appropriate my master-files... 5. if you only have one format, you ain't got jack, jack. i'm gonna have a master-file, a text-file, .mobi, .epub, and .pdf, plus a veritable raft of various .html versions. if the master gets edited, a button-click regenerates all. so one-of-a-kind formats won't have a fighting chance. (nor should they; they do not simplify, they complicate.) 6. all of my formats will be synergistic with each other. so if yours will not, might as well stop before you start. if you don't know what it means for all your versions to have synergy, you'll never be able to clear the bar, chap. so you might just retire to the bar, and have a stiff drink. 7. if you think this is "trash-talk", prepare to be buried. 8. i forget what 8 was for. 9. have a nice weekend... -bowerbird

2 1

Re: [gutvol-d] Status of Mercurial / RST project
by Joshua Hutchinson 04 Feb '12

04 Feb '12

3 2

Status of Mercurial / RST project
by Marcello Perathoner 04 Feb '12

04 Feb '12

The hg repository is live with 2 books. http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1342 http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1661 For now, only the EPUB, Kindle and PDF versions were automatically generated from RST. Please download those versions to any real ereader devices and comment on the experience. The repository containing the RST sources can be viewed (not edited) here: https://bitbucket.org/project_gutenberg/books/src -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster(a)gutenberg.org

3 3

Mercurial How To
by Marcello Perathoner 03 Feb '12

03 Feb '12

A first draft of the mercurial how to. Please check the windows install instructions, as I don't have a windows box to check. http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Mercurial_Repository_How-To -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster(a)gutenberg.org

4 6

Re: [gutvol-d] eb.tbicl.org
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 03 Feb '12

03 Feb '12

dkretz said: > I can give you an account to edit any of the EB articles > using any of the various wp editors, including RST, markdown, > and the customized one I'm using with my own toolbar on it. don, i'd love to play with it. -bowerbird

4 7

Kickstarter for summer of code?
by Karen Lofstrom 03 Feb '12

03 Feb '12

What about using Kickstarter to raise money for a PG summer of code? I have a feeling that the folks arguing here, over email, would be more productive after some face time, and perhaps a few beers. It's easier to be snippy in email. Place and time to be determined. Either Europe (for Marcello and Carlo) or US East Coast would be the best bets. I would suggest that an experienced facilitator be hired/invited/whatever, someone who knows how to get geeks to pull together rather than savage each other :) Similarly, participants should be chosen for works-well-with-others skills as well as coding brilliance. NB: that leaves out Bowerbird on both counts. -- Karen Lofstrom

3 2

let's walk through this process
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 03 Feb '12

03 Feb '12

keith said: > There a two kind of users. > 1) the nerds here on the list with their pet technologies. > 2) the average joe that wants to volunteer. well, actually, keith, we shouldn't consider "the nerds here" to be "users"... we're just nerds with our pet technologies... and further, most p.g. "users" do _not_ "want to volunteer". they just read the books, and that's all they care about, and i'm fine with those users; i'm glad they found those books... a very rare and special few _do_ "want to volunteer", and -- due to that p.g. banner -- most of them end up at d.p., where they are coddled by the unofficial "welcoming staff" but abused badly by the workflow, and eventually go away. the extremely small percentage who stay generally grow to feel more allegiance to d.p. -- it's stockholm syndrome -- than to the now-more-distant-to-them project gutenberg. but, by and large, the most common type of "volunteer" is the person who happens to notice a mistake in a p.g. e-text and decides to be a good citizen and make an error-report... usually this is just a short-lived feeling that leaves quickly. "i thought i should do it, and i thought i would, but i forgot." if the person does persist, however, they will usually try to learn how to make their error-report. some never find out. but there are others who _do_ find out! the procedure is to send an e-mail to a @pglaf address. (it sometimes bounces; in that case i would assume the person finally just gives up.) if the report does get received, they get an automated reply, saying "thanks for your report, we got it, and we'll act on it." then, maybe years later, the error will be corrected. or not. as you can see, there's lots of little hang-ups along the way. but, to me, the _worst_ is the vague nature of the instruction. remember, this is a person who _wants_ to do the right thing. plus they have to have been highly motivated to have gotten this far along in the process. so the least you can do for 'em is to give _specific_ instructions on how they should proceed. as it is, they have to provide their own answers for questions that will invariably arise in their mind, such as "what should the e-mail say?", "how should i format it", and similar issues. i suspect that the _intention_ was to convey that "it's all good" and "do it however you like", but that's simply wrong-headed. what people want in this situation is simple clear instruction. they want to fill out a form, so they know they did it "right", and so they don't have to spend any time thinking about it... remember, these people _want_ to do the right thing, _but_ their motivation is fleeting, so make things _easy_ for them. e-mail is not "easy". composing an e-mail is not easy either. especially if you don't have the slightest idea what to include. moreover, and just as important (if not more), everyone will compose their e-mail in their own unique way, which means that the person on the p.g. end has to parse that uniqueness. 37 people will find 37 different ways to say "this period here should be a comma", meaning you'll have to _parse_ all 37, mentally reworking all of them as "change period to comma". that "mental reworking" becomes draining after a few hours. the kicker is that it's all pretty much _unnecessary_... this is how project gutenberg _should_ do error-reports... there should be a web-page specifically for reporting errors. it should have a form on it which solicits the necessary info... > book-number: ______ or title: ________________________ > current incorrect line: ________________________________ > proposed correct line: ________________________________ > any other relevant notes: _____________________________ > your e-mail address (for confirmation): _______________ every e-book should have a link to this page. heck, every _page_ in every e-book could have a link to it. all the info you need, without tiresome mental reworking. the output from this form could even be used by an app for convenient checking and then acceptance/rejection of the proposed correction, with auto-updating of the files... indeed, i wrote up such a system in a post to this listserve, years back, and offered to write the code to implement it... but -- of course -- the write-up and the offer were ignored. now, years later, al laments that "error-reports are hard"... it's only hard because the powers-that-be are super-stupid. *** does anyone here know how to make a web-form for p.g.? there must be _someone_. if not, i will volunteer to do it... *** p.g. fails to capture the efforts of people who want to help by reporting an error in the e-book which they are reading. further, the failure to reinforce such motivation means it is usually extinguished, a second curse compounding the first. -bowerbird p.s. i put such error-reporting in my "continuous proofing" system way back as early as 2005, and probably even sooner. to report the error on this page, use the form at the bottom: > http://z-m-l.com/go/mabie/mabiep003.html

2 1