- gutvol-d - lists.pglaf.org

merry christmas 2005 -- the good, the bad, and the surprising
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 25 Dec '05

25 Dec '05

merry christmas 2005! the bad news is that distributed proofreaders got no present in their stocking this year... :+( the good news is that they didn't get a lump of coal like they did last year... :+) the surprising news is that michael hart -- for the first year in anyone's memory -- got no present. some people speculate that google stole michael's present, but perhaps he just wasn't as good this year as he has been in previous years? maybe saint nicholas just skipped over the p.g./d.p. houses this year... but i'm sure he'll be back next year! happy 2006! -bowerbird

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www.gutenberg.org
by Marcello Perathoner 25 Dec '05

25 Dec '05

As of my request ibiblio has changed our apache virtual host ServerName from gutenberg.net to www.gutenberg.org. What? Nothing changes in web site operation except one little particular (if you hit a non-existing url you get redirected to www.gutenberg.org instead of gutenberg.net) Why? The .org top-level domain is meant for non-profit organizations while the .net domain is meant for network infrastructure such as providers, backbones etc. We own both gutenberg.net and gutenberg.org, but using the latter one is just more standard-compliant. Although both urls www.gutenberg.net and www.gutenberg.org give exactly the same results, you should start using www.gutenberg.org in all publications, papers etc. -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster(a)gutenberg.org

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differentiating between indentation and no indentation after poetry
by Wally Thompson 23 Dec '05

23 Dec '05

I'm working on a book that has poetry within the text. Sometimes a poem ends the paragraph and sometimes it does not. So I'm wondering how to handle this in the text file without leaving it ambiguous. Wally

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re: [gutvol-d] differentiating between indentation and no indentation after p...
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 22 Dec '05

22 Dec '05

jon said: > I guess you have rejected it. nah. your "praise" had no effect on me. what would it mean to be an "expert" on a 4th-grade topic anyway? :+) i just wanted you to realize that i was immune to the dale carnegie approach, so you wouldn't get frustrated it didn't work. > You know, if you instead worked *with* people > (rather than viewing everyone else as enemies > that you must outwit), and started a SourceForge project, > assembled like-minded people, you'd be much further along, > and would probably have won a lot more hearts and minds. i have no desire to "win" hearts or minds. or to "win" friends or "influence" people... i am merely a messenger. for those who will listen... > First, ZML is not sufficient for mastering texts for > multiple digital publication purposes. For example, > you've not bothered to address how in ZML you will > enable standardized intra- and inter-publication > deep linking, a powerful ebook function and there you go again. and this is why i say you don't know jack about z.m.l. when you see how finely-grained i can "deep-link", and realize what you would have to do to get that functionality with your heavy markup, you'll get a knot in your gut. and i'll be able to give people a program that will do it _right_now_, today, even on trailing-edge machinery, while your methodology will necessitate telling them they must use browser x, after buying a new machine. deep-linking is ridiculously easy with permanent url's. and, coincidentally, absolutely impossible without them. > it will be ignored by the world. and you still don't see that i don't care. i really don't. i'm doing the world a favor, showing it a better way of doing something. if it is too stupid, or resentful, or stubborn, or whatever, to realize that, it will be no skin off my nose. i'll still be as fat and sassy as ever. > open-source as i've said before, any people who want to work on a z.m.l.-like open-source project should join with john gruber's "markdown". he's over at http://www.daringfireball.net. > moderation ockerbloom moderates every poster, while you make a special exception of moderating michael. > How many times have you replied to me > when you said you'd no longer reply to me? > I've rather enjoyed the (mostly) quiet times. i've enjoyed the (mostly) quiet times too, jon. one of my few resolutions for 2005 was to get off the noring merry-go-round. i did well, i think, wasting far less of my time there this year than i have in previous years. as you point out, i wasn't perfect, mostly since you seemed to want to provoke me by routinely misrepresenting z.m.l., but on the whole, i still did well. and i expect to waste even less time in your circles in the next year. (by the way, my big resolution for 2006 is to get off the michael hart anti-google merry-go-round, which wasted far too much of my time in 2005. i've already started practicing that one, and it is going well too.) and jon, i do believe that even you will get off of your own merry-go-round in 2006, because you will finally have some rubber-meets-road reality when thoutreader releases an openreader viewer. i've long said that your format-centric approach would become much stronger if it was tempered with input from a programmer on its weaknesses. (such input teaches format's relative irrelevance; what really matters is how you manipulate content, not so much the container wherein it is packaged.) and with the improvement in your confidence that an actual app will give you, you probably will not need to use the shrill argumentation of your past. because the proof really is in the pudding... at least we can hope you'll leave the preaching behind. and i too will be dealing more in pudding next year. it's been fun, and all, seeing just how long y'all would continue to insist that z.m.l. "cannot do the job", but it's time for me to stop toying with you, and give proof. at least, once you throw just a _little_ bit more money in the poker pot, in the form of your time and energy... :+) so here it is, another post on the noring merry-go-round, to commemorate 2005 quickly becoming a year of the past... -bowerbird

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re: [gutvol-d] differentiating between indentation and no indentation after p...
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 22 Dec '05

22 Dec '05

everyone who has followed my posts at _any_ time during the last 7 years would know that i would _never_ create an o.e.b. viewer-program. nor would i ever call such a program "an end-user presentation agent", or whatever technoidese that i wrote. little did i realize how long i would be laughing about that little in-joke. years later, it's still working its magic. but hey, you know what, maybe i _will_ start a sourceforge page for that thing. like so many other o.e.b. open-source efforts, it would just die on the vine, but when that's the _object_ of the exercise, it wouldn't seem like a miserable failure, now, would it? i bet it's easier to put up a sourceforge page than a wikipedia bio, with none of those pesky "fact-checkers" snooping around to ruin all of the fun... -bowerbird p.s. spellchecker, on encountering "o.e.b.", suggests "m.b.a." as replacement. how fitting!

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re: [gutvol-d] differentiating between indentation and no indentation after p...
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 22 Dec '05

22 Dec '05

jon said: > Hope this helps you get your Wikipedia auto-bio! thanks jon! i hope it does too! not that i care about having my "bio" included; but given all the hullabaloo lately on the topic, i thought the wiki world could use a little levity. i'm hoping that somebody will edit the page to say i was involved in the kennedy assassinations. (hint: now you know what i want for christmas!) ;+) -bowerbird

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re: [gutvol-d] differentiating between indentation and no indentation after p...
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 22 Dec '05

22 Dec '05

ah, marcello, where ya been, buddy? i've missed your constant commentary! the o.e.b. announcement was a joke, designed to show the noring/rothman spin machine would even promote _me_ if i only said those magic three letters... sure enough, they did. i laughed out loud. but hey, i've explained all that before, so i'll step off the marcello merry-go-round. have a happy holiday season! -bowerbird p.s. hey marcello, can you give me the u.r.l. to that "fansite" you put up "honoring" me? i'm trying to convince wikipedia to let me put up my bio of me, which states that i am "an asshole with far too many opinions"... but they consider it to be "not n.p.o.v." -- "neutral point of view" for newbies -- (which is nonsense of course, because why would i call myself an "asshole" if it wasn't true, seems to me this would be a classic case _illustrating_ neutral p.o.v.) -- so your webpage will go a long way to help make my case with them. thanks!

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Re: [gutvol-d] differentiating between indentation and no indentation after p...
by Gutenberg9443＠aol.com 22 Dec '05

22 Dec '05

In a message dated 12/20/2005 7:12:21 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, wally.thompson(a)gmail.com writes: I'm working on a book that has poetry within the text. Sometimes a poem ends the paragraph and sometimes it does not. So I'm wondering how to handle this in the text file without leaving it ambiguous. Wally, could you provide a brief example? I don't do much with proofreading on PG, but I am a book publisher. If I saw an example in which the poem ends the paragraph and the poem does not end the paragraph, it would help. Are you saying that in some cases the poem is within the paragraph and the paragraph continues after the poem, or that the paragraph ends but the poem carries over to the next paragraph? I've seen both, and of course they're handled differently. Anne

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re: [gutvol-d] differentiating between indentation and no indentation after p...
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 22 Dec '05

22 Dec '05

if you create a .zml master -- which is a heckuva lot faster and easier than creating a .tei master -- you don't have to worry about the html or pdf, as they can be generated automatically... -bowerbird

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Re: [gutvol-d] differentiating between indentation and no indentation after p...
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 22 Dec '05

22 Dec '05

jon noring said: > Bowerbird is the expert on this jon, i know what they teach you in the dale carnegie courses about "how to win friends and influence people" is to flatter people's egos until they will do whatever you want them to... and i grant it is astoundingly effective. but that crap doesn't work with me -- precisely because i'm hip to it -- so you shouldn't waste your breath... and please stop making yourself look silly by trying to tell people all about z.m.l., because you don't know jack about it... as for the p.g. e-texts, most of them are already _in_ z.m.l. format, or close to it, so "remastering them" in z.m.l. will be a task so simple a 4th-grader can do it, mostly verifying my tool's auto-formatting. and from that, multiple goodies will follow. but i'm still waiting to do that "remastering" until you markup fools throw away a lot more of your precious time and energy. a _smart_ poker player doesn't show his hand too soon when he knows he's got the other players beat, he gets them to put their money in the pot first. ok, now back to not talking to jon directly, since he moderates posts by michael hart over on his listserve, and i firmly believe that a pioneer like michael deserves more respect. -bowerbird

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