Keith: Having said all that, what is the actual point you are trying to make and in what context. It is completely oblivious to me. Sorry. We all "know" what it takes to make good input languages and good parsers and then "we" all forget that stuff and go off half-cocked pursuing light-weight markup schemes and then we ask ourselves why we have to tediously create all this "light weight" stuff by hand and having to hand-count invisible vertical whitespace etc. using tools which don't understand any of this stuff and which therefore cannot help us yet all the time the proponents of light-weight markup keep telling us how they are helping us make our lives easier while the WWers are standing cop at the gates because unlike a real input language the light-weight stuff doesn't even come with its own style checkers to get the WWers out of traffic cop mode. "Making our lives easier" would mean removing the requirement to submit separate hand-tooled lightweight markup in the first place! It would be a ton less effort to write a style guide for HTML, and/or to write a style tool to tag "features" of submitted HTML of which the transcriber is very proud but which are just very probably going to look crappy on one or more target devices.