michael said:
Like many I'm sure (all right, I'm not really sure), I like ebooks/etexts but do not like to read them on a computer screen.
there are many people like you. most of them are old. which is to say that very few young people feel that way. it does _not_ mean that all "old" people agree with you; many oldsters are very comfortable reading on screens.
This is largely, no doubt, because I work with a computer all day anyway--a book should be a place to get away from it all for a little.
i'm sorry you hate your job... ;+) and maybe that's part of the problem. perhaps you don't really hate reading off a screen, you just hate doing it at a computer while you're sitting at a desk. in which case an ipad might be a very nice solution... (it _would_ save some trees. or maybe just one tree. but every tree we save is one more tree on the earth.)
The natural thing to do is to print the text out and read it. The question then is: how do we typeset it?
boy, you _are_ old, aren't you? :+) "typesetting" is such a quaint term, charming and cute. even "desktop publishing" now seems badly outdated.
One of the last two would, of course, do in a pinch, but I was wondering whether anyone else here had any ideas/recipes on how to automatically or mostly-automatically typeset a PG etext for printing.
well, yeah. but what are your expectations? what are your demands? if you were to do the job for an individual e-text, perhaps like the one you mentioned, what changes would you make? let's start with ripping out the legalese and go from there... you talked about unwrapping paragraphs. you'd do that? (were they too long for you, or too short for you, or what?) of course you don't want a monospaced font, but which fonts would you settle for? times new roman? helvetica? or do you need an ability to use any font on your machine? what about paragraphing? block paragraphs, or indentation? do you want full-justification, or is ragged-right acceptable? hyphenation, or not? if you could have the original linebreaks, complete with the original end-of-line-hyphenates, would you? how about chapter-headings? page-top? recto? double-truck? curly-quotes? typographic em-dashes? footnotes or endnotes? runheads? do you want pagenumbers? if so, printed where? what pagesize would you prefer? 8.5*11? or 5.5*8.5 for 2-up? -bowerbird
Excerpts from Bowerbird's message of Fri Apr 16 16:36:41 -0500 2010:
michael said:
Like many I'm sure (all right, I'm not really sure), I like ebooks/etexts but do not like to read them on a computer screen.
there are many people like you. most of them are old.
which is to say that very few young people feel that way.
it does _not_ mean that all "old" people agree with you; many oldsters are very comfortable reading on screens.
This is largely, no doubt, because I work with a computer all day anyway--a book should be a place to get away from it all for a little.
i'm sorry you hate your job... ;+)
and maybe that's part of the problem. perhaps you don't really hate reading off a screen, you just hate doing it at a computer while you're sitting at a desk.
in which case an ipad might be a very nice solution... (it _would_ save some trees. or maybe just one tree. but every tree we save is one more tree on the earth.)
The natural thing to do is to print the text out and read it. The question then is: how do we typeset it?
boy, you _are_ old, aren't you? :+)
"typesetting" is such a quaint term, charming and cute.
even "desktop publishing" now seems badly outdated.
One of the last two would, of course, do in a pinch, but I was wondering whether anyone else here had any ideas/recipes on how to automatically or mostly-automatically typeset a PG etext for printing.
well, yeah.
but what are your expectations? what are your demands?
if you were to do the job for an individual e-text, perhaps like the one you mentioned, what changes would you make?
let's start with ripping out the legalese and go from there...
you talked about unwrapping paragraphs. you'd do that? (were they too long for you, or too short for you, or what?)
of course you don't want a monospaced font, but which fonts would you settle for? times new roman? helvetica? or do you need an ability to use any font on your machine?
what about paragraphing? block paragraphs, or indentation?
do you want full-justification, or is ragged-right acceptable?
hyphenation, or not? if you could have the original linebreaks, complete with the original end-of-line-hyphenates, would you?
how about chapter-headings? page-top? recto? double-truck?
curly-quotes? typographic em-dashes? footnotes or endnotes?
runheads? do you want pagenumbers? if so, printed where?
what pagesize would you prefer? 8.5*11? or 5.5*8.5 for 2-up?
-bowerbird -- Michael McDermott www.mad-computer-scientist.com
there are many people like you. most of them are old.
I'm in my early 20s.
i'm sorry you hate your job... ;+)
and maybe that's part of the problem. perhaps you don't really hate reading off a screen, you just hate doing it at a computer while you're sitting at a desk.
Well, your psychoanalyzing is interesting (sarc.), but I like what I do. I do not like eyestrain and I like the variety that print media provides.
"typesetting" is such a quaint term, charming and cute.
An old term to be sure, but I like it. "Desktop publishing" was a lame term, even when it was in vogue.
boy, you _are_ old, aren't you? :+)
No. There are a finite number of options: a computer screen (a blackberry screen is just a small computer screen), an eink screen (which would be a good compromise if I had the spare cash), or print. I'm trying to move away from 1, 2 is impractical for the time being, and that brings us to 3.
but what are your expectations? what are your demands?
I have no demands, per se. It was a question. Googling did not turn up anything convenient. The only real option would be to convert each text manually into LaTeX or some lightweight format like asciidoc (my personal favorite). Largely, I am looking to see if anyone else has a solution to a problem before I break out an interpreter/compiler and get cracking on my own. Nitpicking aside, you raise a valid point. What do I want? * Automatic or mostly automatic. This is all done by running a single command or with some slight configuration changes to said command. * Font family selection. I don't personally care about picking an exact font, but font family select ala CSS would be nice, with a reasonable default of the Roman variety. * Paragraph lines should run to the end of the printed page--be that margins or whatnot. * On screen, I like block paragraphs, but in print indented ones. Optimally, this would be user-settable. * Page size I would want to set, but 2 pages printed on an 8.5x11 sheet in practice. * I care little about hyphenation vs wrapping, but I would want the text conformed to the print media, not verbatim of the original edition. This is, after all, one of the advantages of an etext--the ability to reflow the content as desired. * Page numbers, of course. * Curly quotes do not matter one way or another to me. * em-dashes would be preferable. * Footnotes and endnotes should be included, of course. -Michael Excerpts from Michael McDermott's message of Fri Apr 16 17:37:05 -0500 2010:
Excerpts from Bowerbird's message of Fri Apr 16 16:36:41 -0500 2010:
michael said:
Like many I'm sure (all right, I'm not really sure), I like ebooks/etexts but do not like to read them on a computer screen.
there are many people like you. most of them are old.
which is to say that very few young people feel that way.
it does _not_ mean that all "old" people agree with you; many oldsters are very comfortable reading on screens.
This is largely, no doubt, because I work with a computer all day anyway--a book should be a place to get away from it all for a little.
i'm sorry you hate your job... ;+)
and maybe that's part of the problem. perhaps you don't really hate reading off a screen, you just hate doing it at a computer while you're sitting at a desk.
in which case an ipad might be a very nice solution... (it _would_ save some trees. or maybe just one tree. but every tree we save is one more tree on the earth.)
The natural thing to do is to print the text out and read it. The question then is: how do we typeset it?
boy, you _are_ old, aren't you? :+)
"typesetting" is such a quaint term, charming and cute.
even "desktop publishing" now seems badly outdated.
One of the last two would, of course, do in a pinch, but I was wondering whether anyone else here had any ideas/recipes on how to automatically or mostly-automatically typeset a PG etext for printing.
well, yeah.
but what are your expectations? what are your demands?
if you were to do the job for an individual e-text, perhaps like the one you mentioned, what changes would you make?
let's start with ripping out the legalese and go from there...
you talked about unwrapping paragraphs. you'd do that? (were they too long for you, or too short for you, or what?)
of course you don't want a monospaced font, but which fonts would you settle for? times new roman? helvetica? or do you need an ability to use any font on your machine?
what about paragraphing? block paragraphs, or indentation?
do you want full-justification, or is ragged-right acceptable?
hyphenation, or not? if you could have the original linebreaks, complete with the original end-of-line-hyphenates, would you?
how about chapter-headings? page-top? recto? double-truck?
curly-quotes? typographic em-dashes? footnotes or endnotes?
runheads? do you want pagenumbers? if so, printed where?
what pagesize would you prefer? 8.5*11? or 5.5*8.5 for 2-up?
-bowerbird -- Michael McDermott www.mad-computer-scientist.com
in which case an ipad might be a very nice solution... (it _would_ save some trees. or maybe just one tree. but every tree we save is one more tree on the earth.)
iPad is a very nice solution if a) you want to let Steve Jobs decide what you get to read, where you can download it from, what reader app you get to read it with, and how much you pay for it. b) Its not important for you to acknowledge where you books are coming from, who did them for you, and to be allowed to redistribute those books to your friends. c) You don't mind reading your books through a "screen door" Good ebook readers allow: YOU to easily get a book from any free site YOU choose - NOT Steve Jobs! Choose from a variety of fonts. Choose from a variety of font sizes - and easily change those font sizes over the course of a day if your eyes begin to tire. Choose how big the margins are - how many chars or words YOU want per line of text. Don't know about you, but I have absolutely no desire to have Steve Jobs censor my reading materials - nor to censor the reading app that I use to read those books - nor to monopolize the distribution channel! iPad is a HUGE step BACKWARDS as far as I can tell!
James Adcock wrote:
iPad is a very nice solution if
a) you want to let Steve Jobs decide what you get to read, where you can download it from, what reader app you get to read it with, and how much you pay for it.
With Stanza you can download directly from PG and many other free publishers.
iPad is a HUGE step BACKWARDS as far as I can tell!
Apple systems have always been more closed than the alternatives. If you don't like closed systems, buy an Android tablet instead. -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org
With Stanza you can download directly from PG and many other free publishers.
Sorry, but are you saying that you are actually currently running Stanza on an iPad, that you have tested this, and that it works? From what I can see they only have an iPod version, which yes will run on iPad -- and create a blurry simulation of an iPod on your iPad.
On Sat, 17 Apr 2010, Jim Adcock wrote:
With Stanza you can download directly from PG and many other free publishers.
Sorry, but are you saying that you are actually currently running Stanza on an iPad, that you have tested this, and that it works? From what I can see they only have an iPod version, which yes will run on iPad -- and create a blurry simulation of an iPod on your iPad.
iPads have their own iBooks App and if you search for "Project Gutenberg" and various titles what you get seems very much not to be what you call a "blurry simulation of an iPod on your iPad." I suggest that instead of taking Artistotle's thought processing to try a way of figuring out what an iPad looks like without looking at a real one of these gizmos that instead you just find one and actually look at it or the next best thing, look at the online demonstrations or ask someone who is trying one out to do some experimentation for you. In addition, you can also find a nice App from the people at Wattpad that also has a rather nice rendering of the Project Gutenberg eBooks on iPad. Given that eBook Apps surpassed game Apps on the iPod a while while, and, no, I don't know exactly when that was or if games took back the crown or eBooks kept the lead, but given that, I must presume eBook Apps will have a decent life on the iPad. I've tried out several reading experiences on the iPad and all seem quite easy to read from and the Apps store makes it quite obvious which App has been written specifically for the iPad and which for combinations. I'm sure all the iPod reader outfits that are still in production will be releassing iPad products that take full advantage of the 768 x 1024 res-- which works so well that you don't think at all about resolution and size becomes the only factor you will probably worry about. However, I should state in advance that I am sure people will find worry, about all sorts of things, that seem just fine to nearly everyone else. Personally, I'm just waiting to see what comes down the pike from persons who want to turn iPads into iMacs or whatever, and then start Apps Stores of various and sundry varieties, just like they did with iPhones, iPods & pretty much everything else in the computing world. Heck, the iPod was not out but a week when the first eBook reader was out to let people read our Project Gutenberg eBooks and others on it. I'm sure there will be dozens, if not hundreds, of iPad eBook readers.
Sorry, but are you saying that you are actually currently running Stanza on an iPad, that you have tested this, and that it works? From what I can see they only have an iPod version, which yes will run on iPad -- and create a blurry simulation of an iPod on your iPad.
iPads have their own iBooks App and if you search for "Project Gutenberg" and various titles what you get seems very much not to be what you call a "blurry simulation of an iPod on your iPad."
I suggest that instead of taking Artistotle's thought processing to try a way of figuring out what an iPad looks like without looking at a real one of these gizmos that instead you just find one and actually look at it or the next best thing, look at the online demonstrations or ask someone who is trying one out to do some experimentation for you.
I have done all these things. I went to an apple store and played with an iPad as soon as they came out and was underwhelmed. I compared it to an iPod and decided that if I was going to consider either one probably the iPod made more sense to me. A friend has bought an iPod and we spent an evening playing with it trying to get PG books directly to it without passing through the Steve Jobs filter. For example in the web browser we tried downloading an ePub format book from PG and Apple blocks this whereas in comparison Kindle supports it -- as do PC browsers. We downloaded and installed Stanza and it showed up as a blurry simulation of an iPod within the iPad. Again, I am asking a serious question: Are you saying that you are actually currently running Stanza on an iPad, that you have tested this, and that it works? Because I have tested it and for me it didn't work, but rather showed up as a blurry simulation of an iPod on the iPad. There are also discussions on the web about how Steve Jobs required Stanza to take out features that allowed Stanza users to share non-DRM books with friends. If you have found "good" ways to get PG directly to iPad how about discussing them in detail, what you did to have success, rather than flaming me -- because I have tried and what I have seen to date is not very encouraging. If you own an iPad and have had luck directly loading a PG book from PG onto your iPad and can read it then please share with us how because that will certainly affect my purchase decision -- or lack thereof. Yes one can use the apple ibooks app to read copies of PG books redistributed by Apple where Apple has stripped the PG legalese and acknowledgements - at least the first 20,000 titles, the most recent stuff doesn't seem to be there. I have already said this in previous emails.
On Sat, 17 Apr 2010, Jim Adcock wrote:
Sorry, but are you saying that you are actually currently running Stanza on an iPad, that you have tested this, and that it works? From what I can see they only have an iPod version, which yes will run on iPad -- and create a blurry simulation of an iPod on your iPad.
iPads have their own iBooks App and if you search for "Project Gutenberg" and various titles what you get seems very much not to be what you call a "blurry simulation of an iPod on your iPad."
I suggest that instead of taking Artistotle's thought processing to try a way of figuring out what an iPad looks like without looking at a real one of these gizmos that instead you just find one and actually look at it or the next best thing, look at the online demonstrations or ask someone who is trying one out to do some experimentation for you.
I have done all these things. I went to an apple store and played with an iPad as soon as they came out and was underwhelmed. I compared it to an iPod and decided that if I was going to consider either one probably the iPod made more sense to me. A friend has bought an iPod and we spent an evening playing with it trying to get PG books directly to it without passing through the Steve Jobs filter. For example in the web browser we tried downloading an ePub format book from PG and Apple blocks this whereas in comparison Kindle supports it -- as do PC browsers. We downloaded and installed Stanza and it showed up as a blurry simulation of an iPod within the iPad.
Somewhere in the previous paragraph you seem to have switched from talking "A friend has bought an iPod and we spent and evening playing with it...", to "it showed up as a blurry simulation of an iPod within the iPad", with, it would appear, no switch of topic from iPod to iPad. Was there are typo in "friend has bought an iPod" where you meant "iPad"?, or did I miss something else that indicated changes from iPod to iPad?
Again, I am asking a serious question: Are you saying that you are actually currently running Stanza on an iPad, that you have tested this, and that it works? Because I have tested it and for me it didn't work, but rather showed up as a blurry simulation of an iPod on the iPad. There are also discussions on the web about how Steve Jobs required Stanza to take out features that allowed Stanza users to share non-DRM books with friends.
I didn't mention Stanza at all, so how can you be asking me "a serious question: Are you saying you are actually running Stanza on an iPad?" Perhaps you can restate this and also enlighten us on the feature that is missing, where it and how to use it on the other Stanza version[s].
If you have found "good" ways to get PG directly to iPad how about discussing them in detail, what you did to have success,
I told you. . .I used the iBooks App that popped up at first turn on, and I also used the Wattpad App. If you don't like those, you might try Goodreader Lite, before trying though I am not sure of the details, haven't tried it yet.
rather than flaming me --
Flaming you? After all the previous harshness, you accuse ME of flaming you? Is that because I asked if you didn't try iBooks and Wattpad? Neither of which product mentions did you reply to, nor even "Thanks, but no thanks for the suggestion." Not to mention attacking me for something I said about Stanza, when I didn't even mention Stanza. Please. . .lighten up. . .I'm on your side. . .and trying to help.
because I have tried and what I have seen to date is not very encouraging. If you own an iPad and have had luck directly loading a PG book from PG onto your iPad and can read it then please share with us how because that will certainly affect my purchase decision -- or lack thereof.
Yes one can use the apple ibooks app to read copies of PG books redistributed by Apple where Apple has stripped the PG legalese and acknowledgements - at least the first 20,000 titles, the most recent stuff doesn't seem to be there. I have already said this in previous emails.
Yet this is a case of "had luck directly loading a PG book," though not "from PG onto your iPad" but "can read it". . . . Personally, I don't care where anyone gets our books from, just as long as we get them out to people. As for the more recent titles, yes, most people "start at the beginning, and continue on until they get to the end." However, I am guessing even if/when they catch up, there will still be some delay, as is true for any numbers of other sites that have relayed our books from us to others in format variety, or other change, that gives them a certain appeal beyond our own formats. Some of these hand out nearly as many as we do from our largest sites. Our goal is the most eBooks to the most people. All of these people are helping us do this, and we don't pay them anything. In a very real sense Apple, Amazon, et al, work for Project Gutenberg.
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Was there are typo in "friend has bought an iPod" where you meant "iPad"?, or did I miss something else that indicated changes from iPod to iPad?
Yes Typo Sorry iPad iPod sometimes (always?) Apple is too clever for its own good.
I didn't mention Stanza at all, so how can you be asking me "a serious question: Are you saying you are actually running Stanza on an iPad?"
You trashed me for playing mind games whereas I was actually describing my actual experience with an iPad. I bragged to my friend who had bought an iPad how you could get these wonderful PG books on the iPad for free and then proceeded to try to show him "all I know" about the subject -- and of course nothing I tried to show him about reading these wonderful PG books on the iPad actually worked in practice -- except we discovered that Apple has ported at least a subset of PG books to the iBooks App stripping out the PG header and acknowledgements in the process and "locked" the books to the iBooks Applet which I think is actually a pretty bad reader app when you get right down to it not even allowing one to set the margins....but it does contain fluff such as animated page turns which is cute for about the first five pages.
Perhaps you can restate this and also enlighten us on the feature that is missing, where it and how to use it on the other Stanza version[s].
As BB said Lexcycle which is now owned by Amazon doesn't appear to be releasing a copy of Stanza for the iPad. On the contrary when you download Stanza for the iPad from the Apple Store what you get is a copy of Stanza for the iPod which shows up within the iPod simulator build into the iPad. The text of that iPod simulator has been "zoomed in on" without even substituting a higher-rez version of the text resulting in a very blurry read. The controversy about the Apple "censorship" of Stanza can be found here: http://www.google.com/search?q=Apple+Stanza+USB For example quote "Lexcycle's Stanza e-book reader for the iPhone and iPod touch has been stripped of USB book sharing, at the request of Apple...." where "at the request of Apple" means "if you don't do what we say you can't distribute your app via the Apple Store which is the only way to distribute your app."
If you have found "good" ways to get PG directly to iPad how about discussing them in detail, what you did to have success,
I told you. . .I used the iBooks App that popped up at first turn on, and I also used the Wattpad App.
Sorry, but I don't know about the Wattpad App but I'm pretty sure the iBooks App doesn't allow one to directly load PG books from the PG site. Or have you discovered something I didn't discover? Why do I care? I want to be able to read what I want to read, and I want to be able to use the internet and wifi to do so to get what I want to read where I want to get it. I don't want to send my $500 to Steve Jobs in order to *test* whether or not he has locked down the iPad so much I cannot read what I want to read. Nook is worthless, for example -- too locked down. Has wifi which could be great -- but B&N doesn't actually let you use that which you have paid for. Kindle has weak and slow whispernet/AT&T connection which is troublesome here in the 'burbs, also PG seems to be leaning towards ePub instead of MOBI, which begs the question of long-term viability of MOBI -- but ePub in turn has problems of dueling distributors and incompatible DRM schemes.... iPad says it allows you to transfer books via USB and the iTunes, but if you have to plug in a USB cable then nook and Kindle have the same capabilities so then why bother putting in wifi in the first place? If you don't let the purchaser use it?
Is that because I asked if you didn't try iBooks and Wattpad?
How would I try these things without sending my $500 to Jobs for the privilege of *testing* his offering? You can't download this stuff at the Apple Store. What I really need to know is if any PG person has succeeding in directly transferring books of their choice from an internet site of their choice using wifi.
Personally, I don't care where anyone gets our books from, just as long as we get them out to people.
I care because I would like to be able to use iPad or whatever to read books in development, say for example SR from DP or my own efforts. And I don't want to wait an extra year or two for PG to make a new DVD distribution to go out to Apple or whoever so that they can stick their own DRM scheme on that PG effort or reduce it all down to txt before turning it back into HTML and from there into ePub or MOBI -- to choose a few common examples.
In a very real sense Apple, Amazon, et al, work for Project Gutenberg.
I would certainly disagree with this statement if they stick DRM on a PG effort, or if they work to prevent redistribution of PG books among friends. If they do these things then they are working AGAINST PG -- and using your own books to do so.
Starting with your last comment first: What DRM is put on PG files? I thought the DRM was in the reader program, not the files. In general: you said you had hands on experience with and iPad, but couldn't find anything that looked good, gave Stanza example. Here is my suggestion: The next time you get your hands on an iPad, or even ask friends to try it for you, just do the little search they have and try a few obvious things like "books" "ebooks" and similar things. You'll get a handful of free or "lite" ereaders programs, and in some cases they will be for the iPad, some for the iPod, and you can compare them yourself to your heart's content, and give your conclusions here, please. My own conclusions were that all the iPad programs are readable. Black on white, or white on black. If the "Accessibility" black and white reversal doesn't work, that means the program has that under control via it's own commands. You also complained about not getting directly from PG and DRM. As I have said so many times, I don't care who redistributes PG, from Tea Party people to Sarah Palin or Tina Fey. . .period. If they put our books on their sites, or go the other way, great difference from my POV, unless they censor out some books, but I am not sure that is a valid reason even then to stop them. There are right and left wing physical libraries. . .who cares? More below: On Mon, 19 Apr 2010, Jim Adcock wrote:
Was there are typo in "friend has bought an iPod" where you meant "iPad"?, or did I miss something else that indicated changes from iPod to iPad?
Yes Typo Sorry iPad iPod sometimes (always?) Apple is too clever for its own good.
So are some of the people who post here. . . .
I didn't mention Stanza at all, so how can you be asking me "a serious question: Are you saying you are actually running Stanza on an iPad?"
You still haven't made any point about Stanza, nor answered my question. You say you are serious, and then you are all bent out of shape in both your questions and your answers, and then you blame me and Apple. . . . "The fault lies not the stars, the fault lies in ourselves."
You trashed me for playing mind games
No, you trashed yourself, if you insist on calling it that, by writing something that was very incomplete, inconclusive and confusing. . . . The solution is just to lighten up and try again, not to accuse worlds of "flaming" and "trashing" you. Just make your point[s] as best you can, and move on. An apology for when you have been confusing is also appropriate, with no need to blame me or Apple.
whereas I was actually describing my actual experience with an iPad.
Let's just say your "actual experience with an iPad" could have used a little more explanation, perhaps a little more experience. I just searched for "ebook" downloaded programs, and searched in those for "Project Gutenberg." I didn't expect to find a list of 30,000 titles on first try, any more than I expect to get the books at pglaf.org or gutenberg.org or .cc on the first try, even after lots of practice, certainly NOT first time.
I bragged to my friend who had bought an iPad how you could get these wonderful PG books on the iPad for free and then proceeded to try to show him "all I know" about the subject -- and of course nothing I tried to show him about reading these wonderful PG books on the iPad actually worked in
It worked for me, but then I gave it a few tries. However, the first two both worked, as did all the others made for iPad, though I have not tried each one in great detail, but enough to bring up books I know I typed in. Keep trying. . . . I really hate to say this, as you'll probably accuse me of flame/trashing but it sounds as if you have spent more time complaining here than in the actual testing of the product. I'm sure you know that Apple wants to control how files get to iPads. However, it certainly appears that at least several of the programs I was testing have their own ways of getting our "Alice in Wonderland" example. [Big Snip, will address later, if we get a few requests for it]
Is that because I asked if you didn't try iBooks and Wattpad?
How would I try these things without sending my $500 to Jobs for the privilege of *testing* his offering?
My apologies, perhaps I have this all backwards, as I thought I had it backwards when you swapped "iPad" for "iPod" or vice versa: I thought you already had managed to "try these things without sending my $500 to Jobs for the privilege of *testing* his offering. . . . Did you, or did you not, make that trial run with an iPad? If you did, then I made suggestions for how to get what you want. Or at least what you SAY you want, but I'm not sure any longer. If you did not take a test drive. . . . Well, in either case I suggest more test driving, and searching for "ebook" and "book" and the like and downloading their programs.
You can't download this stuff at the Apple Store.
Then how did I manage to download them from the store? I just tapped on "Apps" and did my little searches. . . . Isn't that the way you're supposed to? Am I really missing something here about your experience??? If so, I apologize, and am willing to start again, but I strongly suggest a visit to where you can play with an iPad again and try, hopefully successfully, some of the suggestions I already made.
What I really need to know is if any PG person has succeeding in directly transferring books of their choice from an internet site of their choice using wifi.
You can do this with Goodreader. There is a free Goodreader Lite for the iPad/iPhone, that let's grab 5 books at a time. . .I tried it. . .it works.
Personally, I don't care where anyone gets our books from, just as long as we get them out to people.
I care because I would like to be able to use iPad or whatever to read books in development, say for example SR from DP or my own efforts. And I don't want to wait an extra year or two for PG to make a new DVD distribution to go out to Apple or whoever so that they can stick their own DRM scheme on that PG effort or reduce it all down to txt before turning it back into HTML and from there into ePub or MOBI -- to choose a few common examples.
I agree that it's a pain to have to wait for books in progress. However, Goodreader should let you download those if you find them.
In a very real sense Apple, Amazon, et al, work for Project Gutenberg.
I would certainly disagree with this statement if they stick DRM on a PG effort, or if they work to prevent redistribution of PG books among friends. If they do these things then they are working AGAINST PG -- and using your own books to do so.
You insist on saying that someone who is filling this glass has left it half empty just because it is not overflowing to the whole world. Anything that gets more people to read more books is a positive even if it is a little too high on the hog for most or is not into files- sharing on your scale. However, Wattpad, Goodreader, iBooks, and other do provide relief. Times will change, people will jailbreak iPads and all. . . .
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What DRM is put on PG files? I thought the DRM was in the reader program, not the files.
DRM on books in my experience is typically implemented as a device-specific encryption such that even if you move an ebook file to a different machine you own that machine cannot read the file. A hidden key say "serial number" on a particular hardware device is used as a decryption key to allow decryption of the file encrypted specifically for that device. Thus for example if one buys an in-copyright book from Amazon and you physically copy that ebook file from one Kindle you own to another Kindle you own the second Kindle still will not be able to read the ebook file for the first Kindle. While Amazon will typically allow you to read one purchased book on six devices simultaneously -- including on Kindle for the PC, Kindle for the Mac, Kindle for the Blackberry, etc, each of those ebook files has to be downloaded separately from Amazon because each comes with a unique device-specific encryption. Not everything from Amazon needs to have DRM, the publisher who uploads to Amazon has the right to specify "I don't want DRM on my book." Further, the encryption schemes are typically owned proprietary to a particular company or consortium and discussing or distributing information about those encryption schemes is against the law. And thus ePub specs for example doesn't include description of a ePub specific DRM scheme rather each distributor of ePub files can implement their own proprietary and mutually incompatible DRM scheme such that owning multiple ePub devices is not sufficient to ensure that one can purchase an ePub book for one device and read it on another device. And if you have an ePub library of purchased books that you read on your blackberry or what have you and now you want to move that library to your new iPad well too bad because its probably not going to work. Nor can you resell your ebooks to someone else on eBay when you are done with them. Even without DRM as far as I know all storage on iPad is currently tied to a particular app so even if you have a non-DRM "PG" book under Apples' iBooks applet you can't say "Gee let me open that up in Stanza because Stanza offers a better ebook reader" -- you can't do that because the iPad ties the book file to the particular reader applet. If Apple were to allow book transfer via USB then god forbid you could at least move non-DRM books from one iPad reader applet to a different iPad reader applet!
The next time you get your hands on an iPad, or even ask friends to try it for you, just do the little search they have and try a few obvious things like "books" "ebooks" and similar things.
Sorry, perhaps "friends" was too strong a word but I thought what I have been asking here is if anyone in PG or DP land has actually found an applet that will allow them to directly download a free book from the PG website or other websites using wifi and read it in a manner that makes you happy. Or is it necessary, as in the case of Apple's own iBooks applet, to *always* tie the distribution path of the applet to the applet itself? This may seem like a strange question except that Apple already HAS shut down distribution of books by USB except via the iTunes monopoly.
As I have said so many times, I don't care who redistributes PG, from Tea Party people to Sarah Palin or Tina Fey. . .period.
Again, I acknowledge that *you* don't care, but I do: I want to be able to get books and publications directly from a variety of web sites via wifi, and I don't want the applet nor the device to tell me where I can get MOBI or ePub books from anymore than I would want a web browser tell what HTML I am allowed read from what HTML sites. This is the ebook version of "net neutrality" as opposed to buying a device from Big Brother and letting Big Brother then tell you that you can only use that device to buy MORE product from Big Brother. Even Big Bill allows me to install a large variety of reader apps on my netbook say, right click on some ebook I see anywhere on the internet, and that book automagically opens in my choice of reader app.
An apology for when you have been confusing is also appropriate, with no need to blame me or Apple.
I apologize for having difficultly unambiguously discussing terminology that Appple chooses to be deliberately ambiguous as a cute marketing device.
It worked for me, but then I gave it a few tries. However, the first two both worked, as did all the others made for iPad, though I have not tried each one in great detail, but enough to bring up books I know I typed in.
You are I have differing ideas of what "it worked" means. For example on a Kindle, which again is also not the most "unlocked" device in the world, I can web browse to www.gutenberg.org, click on a MOBI title there, and it "works", or I can go to FreeKindleBooks, or to Feedbooks, etc -- my choice of publisher -- and if it's a "free book" I can get it -- it works. I can't get it if it's a "for pay" book because Amazon has locked up that distribution channel -- which is not a good thing. As opposed to Nook where none of this works at all except the direct "for pay" path from B&N.
I really hate to say this, as you'll probably accuse me of flame/trashing but it sounds as if you have spent more time complaining here than in the actual testing of the product.
We spent about four hours playing with the iPad and trying to get it to do what we wanted it to do -- namely direct access to free ebooks on particular websites on the internet. In that amount of time I was already writing software to freely distribute books on the Kindle when I got my first Kindle Dec 2007.
I'm sure you know that Apple wants to control how files get to iPads.
Yes, the only question is just how badly "locked down" their device is in the matter -- and whether or not they will take steps again in the future to force an increase in that "lock down". Again, what I want is the ebook version of "net neutrality" -- I want to have an ebook reader applet which is independent of ebook publisher. I don't want to have to acquire and use a different ebook reader applet for each book I want to purchase -- or acquire freely on the internet. There are WAY more internet sites offering interesting books and other publications that there are organizations willing to write applets for the iPad!
I thought you already had managed to "try these things without sending my $500 to Jobs for the privilege of *testing* his offering. . . .
Sure, I borrowed a friend and his iPad for four hours of lack of success trying various approaches after which he ran away screaming....
Then how did I manage to download them from the store?
Sorry again more Apple cuteness, there is the "Apple Store" virtual on the internet, and there is the "Apple Store" bricks and mortar at the Mall. I can download software from the virtual Apple Store to my desktop, but then I don't have a physical iPad to test it on. Or I can go to the Mall where they have a physical iPad, but then I don't have permission to download and install applets from the virtual Apple Store. And I've used up my friendship for right now with the "bricks and mortar" friend who has a "bricks and mortar" iPad...
You can do this with Goodreader.
OK, good suggestion -- their website looks promising I will dig into it more -- thanks!
Times will change, people will jailbreak iPads and all. . . .
I am hoping that the future OS in the works for iPad may make things less restrictive. Not personally interested in hacking anything to get increased access. Hacking to my taste is incompatible with creating texts for PG....
On Mon, 19 Apr 2010, Jim Adcock wrote: Apple has assured me over and over there is no DRM on our files. If you have any evidence to the opposite, we'd love to hear it. More below:
What DRM is put on PG files? I thought the DRM was in the reader program, not the files.
DRM on books in my experience is typically implemented as a device-specific encryption such that even if you move an ebook file to a different machine you own that machine cannot read the file. A hidden key say "serial number" on a particular hardware device is used as a decryption key to allow decryption of the file encrypted specifically for that device. Thus for example if one buys an in-copyright book from Amazon and you physically copy that ebook file from one Kindle you own to another Kindle you own the second Kindle still will not be able to read the ebook file for the first Kindle. While Amazon will typically allow you to read one purchased book on six devices simultaneously -- including on Kindle for the PC, Kindle for the Mac, Kindle for the Blackberry, etc, each of those ebook files has to be downloaded separately from Amazon because each comes with a unique device-specific encryption. Not everything from Amazon needs to have DRM, the publisher who uploads to Amazon has the right to specify "I don't want DRM on my book." Further, the encryption schemes are typically owned proprietary to a particular company or consortium and discussing or distributing information about those encryption schemes is against the law. And thus ePub specs for example doesn't include description of a ePub specific DRM scheme rather each distributor of ePub files can implement their own proprietary and mutually incompatible DRM scheme such that owning multiple ePub devices is not sufficient to ensure that one can purchase an ePub book for one device and read it on another device. And if you have an ePub library of purchased books that you read on your blackberry or what have you and now you want to move that library to your new iPad well too bad because its probably not going to work. Nor can you resell your ebooks to someone else on eBay when you are done with them.
Even without DRM as far as I know all storage on iPad is currently tied to a particular app so even if you have a non-DRM "PG" book under Apples' iBooks applet you can't say "Gee let me open that up in Stanza because Stanza offers a better ebook reader" -- you can't do that because the iPad ties the book file to the particular reader applet. If Apple were to allow book transfer via USB then god forbid you could at least move non-DRM books from one iPad reader applet to a different iPad reader applet!
The next time you get your hands on an iPad, or even ask friends to try it for you, just do the little search they have and try a few obvious things like "books" "ebooks" and similar things.
Sorry, perhaps "friends" was too strong a word but I thought what I have been asking here is if anyone in PG or DP land has actually found an applet that will allow them to directly download a free book from the PG website or other websites using wifi and read it in a manner that makes you happy. Or is it necessary, as in the case of Apple's own iBooks applet, to *always* tie the distribution path of the applet to the applet itself? This may seem like a strange question except that Apple already HAS shut down distribution of books by USB except via the iTunes monopoly.
Until you have at least tried the examples I went and found for you, that allowed ME to read AND download directly from gutenberg.org.... I have nothing further to offer you on this subject. You are leading me to believe I was correct in the extreme when that thought came to me that you are spending more time complaining about all this than actually doing your own research. Please. . .get out there and do something between your messages so I or we don't have the feeling this is a totally useless exercise from your experimental labs.
As I have said so many times, I don't care who redistributes PG, from Tea Party people to Sarah Palin or Tina Fey. . .period.
Again, I acknowledge that *you* don't care, but I do: I want to be able to get books and publications directly from a variety of web sites via wifi,
This does not remove any from your "variety of web sites via wifi. I told you which Apps you could use, and you pretend I never said it. Please go back and read it all again, do your homework, and prepare for a real conversation. You are NOT conversing here, you are not sharing the wealth. Look up the roots of communicate.
and I don't want the applet nor the device to tell me where I can get MOBI or ePub books from anymore than I would want a web browser tell what HTML I
I read all sorts of stuff with Safari and Opera Lite, which is your problem? Please experiment and cite your specific examples that we can recreate.
am allowed read from what HTML sites. This is the ebook version of "net neutrality" as opposed to buying a device from Big Brother and letting Big Brother then tell you that you can only use that device to buy MORE product from Big Brother. Even Big Bill allows me to install a large variety of reader apps on my netbook say, right click on some ebook I see anywhere on the internet, and that book automagically opens in my choice of reader app.
And you never tried to install those reader apps I mentioned. . . . So what right have you to complain? That they didn't install themselves? I'm sure you would be complaining even more if they did. That they didn't SAVE the files by themselves? Again, I am sure you would be complaining even more if they did. What is it you want?!?!?!? You haven't SAID you want anything I haven't found for you. Yet you have refused to acknowledge those efforts. No thanks means no thanks.
An apology for when you have been confusing is also appropriate, with no need to blame me or Apple.
I apologize for having difficultly unambiguously discussing terminology that Appple chooses to be deliberately ambiguous as a cute marketing device.
Is that a "non-denial denial?"
It worked for me, but then I gave it a few tries. However, the first two both worked, as did all the others made for iPad, though I have not tried each one in great detail, but enough to bring up books I know I typed in.
You are I have differing ideas of what "it worked" means. For example on a Kindle, which again is also not the most "unlocked" device in the world, I can web browse to www.gutenberg.org, click on a MOBI title there, and it
Are you saying you sent to gutenberg.org and tried this without success? Are you telling us what program you used in that effort? Are asking us to try this for you? Still, I'm not sure why one brand should support another proprietary format, but I'll try it if you ask, after you thank me for my previous efforts from your previous questions.
"works", or I can go to FreeKindleBooks, or to Feedbooks, etc -- my choice of publisher -- and if it's a "free book" I can get it -- it works. I can't get it if it's a "for pay" book because Amazon has locked up that distribution channel -- which is not a good thing. As opposed to Nook where none of this works at all except the direct "for pay" path from B&N.
You need to be more specific with your requests and challenges. You say what I mean by "it works for me" is not what you mean for you, but you are not specific about what it is you really want. Does every program do everything the way I want? No. Can I manage to get the results I want? Yes? Are you willing to do what it takes to get what you want? ???
I really hate to say this, as you'll probably accuse me of flame/trashing but it sounds as if you have spent more time complaining here than in the actual testing of the product.
We spent about four hours playing with the iPad and trying to get it to do what we wanted it to do -- namely direct access to free ebooks on particular websites on the internet.
You still have refused to name what programs you tried on what sites, and what you tried to do with them. You also have refused to comment on the programs I have suggested already. You are not encouraging me, or anyone else, to try to help you further.
In that amount of time I was already writing software to freely distribute books on the Kindle when I got my first Kindle Dec 2007.
Tell me, honestly, have to asked Apple for the documentation on how to write for the iPad? There were lots of people working for months on Apps before it came out.
I'm sure you know that Apple wants to control how files get to iPads.
Yes, the only question is just how badly "locked down" their device is in
Ah. . .now we come to the point!!! It's not the "programs" or the "ebooks" you are complaining about, it's "how badly 'locked down` their device is". . .!!! See??? You weren't complaining just about DRM on eBooks. . . . You seem to have a whole pile of axes to grind, and whenever anyone shows you how one axe will do what you want, you switch to another, and another: books, programs, the device itself, Microsoft, etc. I did ALL the things you said. You haven't even gone back and tried ONE of them. Yet you continue to act as if you are right in there testing.
the matter -- and whether or not they will take steps again in the future to force an increase in that "lock down".
Since I haven't been able to get you to state specifics on the present, I am certainly NOT going to engage in a purely hypothetical discussion, on this, or perhaps even other such things you may include. Let's deal with reality before dealing with the other stuff, ok?
Again, what I want is the ebook version of "net neutrality" -- I want to have an ebook reader applet which is independent of ebook publisher. I don't want to have to acquire and use a different ebook reader applet for each book I want to purchase -- or acquire freely on the internet. There are WAY more internet sites offering interesting books and other publications that there are organizations willing to write applets for the iPad!
Again, _I_ have surfed to "normal" eBook sites and grabbed eBooks on an iPad. I even told you about it. . . . I'm not sure you are paying much attention, and this is very likely to be my last message to you on this subject, perhaps for quite some time.
I thought you already had managed to "try these things without sending my $500 to Jobs for the privilege of *testing* his offering. . . .
Sure, I borrowed a friend and his iPad for four hours of lack of success trying various approaches after which he ran away screaming....
Just because YOU can't drive a certain car, doesn't make it undriveable. Four hours??? And you never managed to download ONE eReader App??? Something is seriously wrong here. Either with the experimentation or the reporting of it, or both.
Then how did I manage to download them from the store?
Sorry again more Apple cuteness, there is the "Apple Store" virtual on the internet, and there is the "Apple Store" bricks and mortar at the Mall. I can download software from the virtual Apple Store to my desktop, but then I don't have a physical iPad to test it on.
You said you had one for four hours. You never managed to do what most people do in the first ten minutes? Including myself?
Or I can go to the Mall where they have a physical iPad, but then I don't have permission to download and install applets from the virtual Apple Store. And I've used up my friendship for right now with the "bricks and mortar" friend who has a "bricks and mortar" iPad...
You are saying they won't let you test these features at the mall??? I have a strong feeling you didn't ask them for very much help.
You can do this with Goodreader.
OK, good suggestion -- their website looks promising I will dig into it more -- thanks!
I did mention Goodreader earlier, did I not? And Wattpad? If this pretty much one line reply had been forthcoming back then, this just might have been a totally different conversation. Think about honey vs vinegar. . .eh?
Times will change, people will jailbreak iPads and all. . . .
I am hoping that the future OS in the works for iPad may make things less restrictive. Not personally interested in hacking anything to get increased access. Hacking to my taste is incompatible with creating texts for PG....
And just how do think most of the great apps in history got started???
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Apple has assured me over and over there is no DRM on our files.
Until you have at least tried the examples I went and found for you,
I read all sorts of stuff with Safari and Opera Lite, which is your
And I said it wouldn't matter if they have DRM on your files or not as long as they prevent you from moving the files from applet to applet, and/or prevent you from sharing the files with your friends, because then they have accomplished the same goals as DRM without actually implementing the DRM. that allowed ME to read AND download directly from gutenberg.org.... Well, I just spent about an hour reading all the manuals for goodreader -- the applet you most recommended -- and it talks about supporting PDF not epub nor mobi and it talks about why when you try to read a big book it crashes, and how if you want to set up wifi to talk to your computer then that kills wifi to the internet, etc. So forgive me if I am not impressed. I also looked up everything else on the iTunes store listed under "ebooks" or "books" and those apps are even weaker. So clearly we are living on non-parallel planets! problem? I told you the first thing I tried doing at the Apple bricks and mortor store was to go to PG in the Safari Browser, clicked on an epub link, and it says "Sorry downloading that file type is not allowed."
Please experiment and cite your specific examples that we can recreate.
Please use your Safari browser, go to PG, pick an epub link, click on it, and report back what happens on the iPad. When I tried this at the Apple Brick and Mortor store iPad says "I'm sorry but I can't do that Hal". For comparison, I go on my desktop using IE or Mozilla, click on an epub or mobi link and that book opens automatically in its appropriate ebook reader, just the same as clicking on a PDF file causes that file to open in Adobe Reader. Or clicking on a djvu file opens it in a LizardTech djvu ebook reader. For comparison, on Kindle I go to PG, I click on a mobi link and it says "Do You Want to Download This Book?" I say "Yes" that book shows up in my Kindle bookshelf, where I click on the book and read it any time I want.
And you never tried to install those reader apps I mentioned. . . . So what right have you to complain?
I complain because every time you suggest something where I have to spend my $500 up front only to determine that indeed what I said doesn't work doesn't work. If I spend the $500 and sure enough it doesn't work are *you* going to offer me my money back??? Sure I know that iPad has Safari that can read HTML but I don't want to read HTML. I want to read ePub or Mobi on a decent ebook reader which will allow me to set things like font sizes and margins.
What is it you want?!?!?!? You haven't SAID you want anything I haven't found for you. Yet you have refused to acknowledge those efforts.
I have checked them out and at least according to their own documentation they don't work. What I want is a slate like device with wifi where I can download epubs and mobis from the internet or from my intranet, read them, perhaps lightly edit or annotate them, and I want to be able to do so as seamlessly and as painlessly as from my netbook -- given that a slate is simply a netbook minus the keyboard.
Are you saying you sent to gutenberg.org and tried this without success?
Yes.
Are you telling us what program you used in that effort?
Safari
Are you willing to do what it takes to get what you want?
I already have done so three different ways: 1) Using a desktop. 2) Using a netbook. 3) Using a Kindle. The question then is NOT whether I can find iPad "workaround" to get to some subset of what someone might be doing somewhere in the ebook world. The question is whether or not there is some iPad reader app that allows at least as good and as complete an experience as I am already experiencing via 1) 2) 3) above. 1) has the problem that its not portable. 2) has the problem that it has a keyboard that gets in the way. 3) has the problem that it has slow and unreliable whispernet rather than fast and reliable wifi. Is iPad better? Presumable not, or you would not keep emphasizing work-arounds. Perhaps when HP comes out with the Slate it will be "unlocked." Perhaps not. But I'm not going to pay $500 for the privilege of hack work-arounds!
You still have refused to name what programs you tried on what sites, and what you tried to do with them.
I think I've told you, actually. When I say I used the web browser, I think its pretty obvious that the web browser on iPad is Safari? I told you we used iBooks, because we both discussed the PG limitations of what is there. I told you we tried Stanza, because I told you about the large blurry iPod simulator that brought up. I told you I spent an hour reading the Goodreader documentation about crashes and having to reconfigure ones computer and router to either support reading from the internet or from a local computer, and having to reconfigure to switch between the two...
Tell me, honestly, have to asked Apple for the documentation on how to write for the iPad?
I have researched the issue of developing for Apple, yes, and was turned off having to pay subscription fees up front. Even Big Bill doesn't require that.
It's not the "programs" or the "ebooks" you are complaining about, it's "how badly 'locked down` their device is". . .!!!
Same thing since they lock the books to the programs...
You haven't even gone back and tried ONE of them.
Again, how would I test them more than I have already tested them without spending my $500 up front?
Let's deal with reality before dealing with the other stuff, ok?
The reality is that people had bought iPods using Stanza and expecting to be able to share books and Apple took this away from them. Same "1984" kind of deal as the student who had purchased "1984" for their Kindle, was relying on that to do his homework, and without warning Amazon took off the purchased book without permission.
Four hours??? And you never managed to download ONE eReader App???
Sure we did, I told you we downloaded Stanza.
I have a strong feeling you didn't ask them for very much help.
There wasn't much help to be had, truth be told. I will go back and see if they will allow me to install Goodreader, since that is your top suggestion.
I did mention Goodreader earlier, did I not?
Perhaps, but you didn't mention that it could download directly from any particular website, in fact you have said repeatedly you don't care if it can download from any particular website.
And just how do think most of the great apps in history got started???
Most of them got started somewhere where a mere say-so from Steve Jobs isn't enough to get them *stopped!!!*
On Mon, 19 Apr 2010, Jim Adcock wrote:
Apple has assured me over and over there is no DRM on our files.
And I said it wouldn't matter if they have DRM on your files or not as long as they prevent you from moving the files from applet to applet, and/or prevent you from sharing the files with your friends, because then they have accomplished the same goals as DRM without actually implementing the DRM.
This is not where you started, and I doubt it's where either you or iPad end.
Until you have at least tried the examples I went and found for you, that allowed ME to read AND download directly from gutenberg.org....
Well, I just spent about an hour reading all the manuals for goodreader -- the applet you most recommended -- and it talks about supporting PDF not epub nor mobi and it talks about why when you try to read a big book it
Is The Bible a big enough book for you? Shall I test that for you? Once again, I repeat, I don't care about any one particular format, so please stop pretending this is a valid topic with me, instead, I ask you to take that to a different subject header so I do not have to keep getting bonked over the head with it, however cartoonish.
crashes, and how if you want to set up wifi to talk to your computer then that kills wifi to the internet, etc.
And just how many systems do you have, or know of, that wifi to two wifi spots at the same time??? I have never even tried this, so I am very interested. I hope it isn't just one more dead herring dragged across this pathway-- a pathway that still continues to weave madly across times zones.
So forgive me if I am not impressed. I also looked up everything else on the iTunes store listed under "ebooks" or "books" and those apps are even weaker. So clearly we are living on non-parallel planets!
Sorry, reading the manual and looking up Apps does not qualify you with any actual experience on the subject. Not to mention that YOU did not mention, once again, the actual NAME of the products you are claiming so much expertise about. I'm willing to bet you can't even name the handful I downloaded or much less the entire list available. This would indicate you don't actually know the options available for a selection of programs, not to mention those that are not spelled out in detail in what you say you have been reading. One of my favorite quotes of all time comes to mind here: "Don't Confuse The Map With The Territory."
I read all sorts of stuff with Safari and Opera Lite, which is your problem?
I told you the first thing I tried doing at the Apple bricks and mortor store was to go to PG in the Safari Browser, clicked on an epub link, and it says "Sorry downloading that file type is not allowed."
And you didn't go any farther with your experimentation? I tried other options, got other results. However, I will try what you said, as well.
Please experiment and cite your specific examples that we can recreate.
Please use your Safari browser, go to PG, pick an epub link, click on it, and report back what happens on the iPad. When I tried this at the Apple Brick and Mortor store iPad says "I'm sorry but I can't do that Hal".
I have no desire to go to any Apple Brick and Mortar store, but I will try from general wifi hookups. Nevertheless, if, at the end of all this, you send me a list of questions, comments, complaints, etc., I will try to go get you answers from Apple. Fair enough?
For comparison, I go on my desktop using IE or Mozilla, click on an epub or mobi link and that book opens automatically in its appropriate ebook reader, just the same as clicking on a PDF file causes that file to open in Adobe Reader. Or clicking on a djvu file opens it in a LizardTech djvu ebook reader.
For comparison, on Kindle I go to PG, I click on a mobi link and it says "Do You Want to Download This Book?" I say "Yes" that book shows up in my Kindle bookshelf, where I click on the book and read it any time I want.
And hasn't Apple made it totally obvious you can't do with with an iPad??? Yet you continue to complain that they have Apple when you want Orange??? Yet, I have found plenty of ways to get that kind of end result. No matter what your reading of manuals and reports might have said. BTW, I haven't been able to make the iPad crash yet, even with The Bible.
And you never tried to install those reader apps I mentioned. . . . So what right have you to complain?
About the below: Now you resort to putting words in my mouth, like in high school days. I have never tried to "suggest something where [you] have to spend [your] $500 up front only to. . ." particularly when you have made it obvious it it the case that your mind is closed to a variety of options.
I complain because every time you suggest something where I have to spend my $500 up front only to determine that indeed what I said doesn't work doesn't work. If I spend the $500 and sure enough it doesn't work are *you* going to offer me my money back??? Sure I know that iPad has Safari that can read HTML but I don't want to read HTML. I want to read ePub or Mobi on a decent ebook reader which will allow me to set things like font sizes and margins.
You never figured out how "to set things like font sizes and margins?" I'm beginning to wonder just what you did with your four hours. . . .
What is it you want?!?!?!? You haven't SAID you want anything I haven't found for you. Yet you have refused to acknowledge those efforts.
I have checked them out and at least according to their own documentation
No, you haven't. . .not what most people mean. . .you never went back to see how reality compares with the docs.
they don't work. What I want is a slate like device with wifi where I can download epubs and mobis from the internet or from my intranet, read them, perhaps lightly edit or annotate them, and I want to be able to do so as seamlessly and as painlessly as from my netbook -- given that a slate is simply a netbook minus the keyboard.
Ah, now, at this late stage, you have added that you want to edit eBooks on the iPad.
Are you saying you sent to gutenberg.org and tried this without success?
Yes.
Are you telling us what program you used in that effort?
Safari
Are you willing to do what it takes to get what you want?
I already have done so three different ways:
1) Using a desktop. 2) Using a netbook.
Not any different in this respect, just padding your bibliography.
3) Using a Kindle.
If you spent the same four hours' worth on a Kindle, and liked it so much you were already programming with it, I can't imagine why you are having this conversation at all. Unless it is just to moan and complain in front of an audience to somehow "get even" with Apple for being. . .well. . .Apple. You like Microsoft and Kindle. . .go. . .Bon Voyage!!!
The question then is NOT whether I can find iPad "workaround" to get to some subset of what someone might be doing somewhere in the ebook world. The
Sorry, but that is pretty much the entire essence of running computers. I'm betting you have just forgotten the steep learning curve you climbed to get to know the ones you now say you like. I'll bet you ranted and raved about them just like you are doing now!!! I did. ;-)
question is whether or not there is some iPad reader app that allows at least as good and as complete an experience as I am already experiencing via 1) 2) 3) above. 1) has the problem that its not portable. 2) has the problem that it has a keyboard that gets in the way. 3) has the problem that it has slow and unreliable whispernet rather than fast and reliable wifi. Is iPad better? Presumable not, or you would not keep emphasizing work-arounds. Perhaps when HP comes out with the Slate it will be "unlocked." Perhaps not. But I'm not going to pay $500 for the privilege of hack work-arounds!
Sure you are! You do it every time you buy a computer, or somebody pays for you to use. It's all built on that sort of thing. Get used to it. Don't ever look under the hood, you will be terribly disappointed as to a plethora of "hacks and workarounds" that make every bit of this work.
You still have refused to name what programs you tried on what sites, and what you tried to do with them.
I think I've told you, actually. When I say I used the web browser, I think its pretty obvious that the web browser on iPad is Safari? I told you we used iBooks, because we both discussed the PG limitations of what is there.
At first you denied using iBooks at all, don't you remember???
I told you we tried Stanza, because I told you about the large blurry iPod
Actually, you spoke of that as if it were a hypothetical, so there was quite literally no way to know you had actually tried it or not, or were reporting once again what various manuals and reviews told you.
simulator that brought up. I told you I spent an hour reading the Goodreader documentation about crashes and having to reconfigure ones computer and router to either support reading from the internet or from a local computer, and having to reconfigure to switch between the two...
Same with your cell phone and most other such devices. However, if all your systems use plain 801n, or 801g, should be no problem, it certainly hasn't been for me.
Tell me, honestly, have to asked Apple for the documentation on how to write for the iPad?
I have researched the issue of developing for Apple, yes, and was turned off having to pay subscription fees up front. Even Big Bill doesn't require that.
So, you are admitting you never asked for what you didn't get. "You Never Know What You Might Get If You Don't Ask For It."
It's not the "programs" or the "ebooks" you are complaining about, it's "how badly 'locked down` their device is". . .!!!
Same thing since they lock the books to the programs...
Not, it's not the same thing. Learn to speak specifically when you say such things, ask such questions, etc. Otherwise you are just wasting a lot of people's time.
You haven't even gone back and tried ONE of them.
Again, how would I test them more than I have already tested them without spending my $500 up front?
Gee, I would think that obvious to someone who already did it once before.
Let's deal with reality before dealing with the other stuff, ok?
The reality is that people had bought iPods using Stanza and expecting to be able to share books and Apple took this away from them. Same "1984" kind of deal as the student who had purchased "1984" for their Kindle, was relying on that to do his homework, and without warning Amazon took off the purchased book without permission.
You seem to be bringing up something new, and of great interest. I'm sure we'd all like to hear more about this!!!!!!!
Four hours??? And you never managed to download ONE eReader App???
Sure we did, I told you we downloaded Stanza.
For the iPad specifically! Now, just above, you said you were using iBooks, doesn't that count?
I have a strong feeling you didn't ask them for very much help.
There wasn't much help to be had, truth be told. I will go back and see if they will allow me to install Goodreader, since that is your top suggestion.
You keep short-changing Wattpad, which I think I mentioned first. When at the Apps Store, just search for "ebooks" and "books" etc. How many times have I said that???
I did mention Goodreader earlier, did I not?
Perhaps, but you didn't mention that it could download directly from any particular website, in fact you have said repeatedly you don't care if it can download from any particular website.
You download it from the Apps Store. . . .
And just how do think most of the great apps in history got started???
Most of them got started somewhere where a mere say-so from Steve Jobs isn't enough to get them *stopped!!!*
No, they just worked around their current version of Steve Jobs, such as working around IBM, then Apple, then Microsoft, and Intel, and ADM, Sony and all the rest. . . .
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[Changed the header per Michaels request]
Once again, I repeat, I don't care about any one particular format, so please stop pretending this is a valid topic with me,
But then why do you keep offering advice to me that you know will not work for me because I *am* interested in eBook formats and eBook content development such as DP does which is HTML rendered into ePub and MOBI? PG doesn't even typically support PDF so how does the fact tha Safari happens to kind of support reading documents in PDF have anything to do with PG?
And just how many systems do you have, or know of, that wifi to two wifi spots at the same time???
My generic $300 netbook has absolutely no problem whatsoever fresh out of the box using wifi to transfer files either from the internet or to/from the publically shared folders of all my locally networked computers. I never have to change a wifi setting just to get a file from a differing location!
Sorry, reading the manual and looking up Apps does not qualify you with any actual experience on the subject.
Not to mention that YOU did not mention, once again, the actual NAME of
OK I spent another 3+ hours at the Apple Store (bricks and mortor) last night trying all the "books" apps there including all of your suggestions and none of them do anything "reasonable" like actually allowing one to transfer a ePub or MOBI file from a chosen location on the internet onto the iPad and allowing one to read that eBook there. the products you are claiming so much expertise about. I tried all the ones you mentioned previous plus all the ones searchable via the App Store searching on "book" or "ebooks" as you suggested previously.
Nevertheless, if, at the end of all this, you send me a list of questions, comments, complaints, etc., I will try to go get you answers from Apple.
The question, complain, comments, etc would be the same as from the start, namely: "If in fact one can do so on iPad, how does one use iPad to download a free eBook in ePub or MOBI format via wifi from an internet site that I choose, storing that ePub or MOBI eBook on the iPad, and then get iPad to open that eBook for reading at this and/or a later date -- when I may or may not have an internet connection?" This is quite possible from Kindle (whispernet), desktops, laptops, and netbooks, for example, so I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation.
And hasn't Apple made it totally obvious you can't do with with an iPad???
Then why in gawds name would anyone want to get an iPad as an ebook reader?
Ah, now, at this late stage, you have added that you want to edit eBooks on the iPad.
I can live without it. What makes iPad uninteresting to me is if one cannot use wifi to download an ePub or MOBI file from a location of my own choosing. I can't edit eBooks on the Kindle, for example, but the Kindle does allow me to bookmark problem spots in the text I am SR'ing, and then I can transfer the bookmarks to my desktop, use that info to locate the problems in the text under development, and fix it there.
If you spent the same four hours' worth on a Kindle, and liked it so much you were already programming with it, I can't imagine why you are having this conversation at all.
I think if you have been following these conversations at all over the preceding months you would know that I am not in love with any particular ebook reader which is why I am still on the outlook for something that would work better. Apple hyped how much better iPad would be, so I tried it, and found that in fact it consists of demoware.
Unless it is just to moan and complain in front of an audience to somehow "get even" with Apple for being. . .well. . .Apple.
I have to admit I have not spent much time on Apple desktops or laptops but I cannot believe that Apple could possibly be *this* restrictive on their desktops or laptops or they would be out of business. The question is not then whether or not I like Apple, but rather whether or not iPad offers anything new and interesting in terms of an eBook Reader. You claimed it did. I tried it and it doesn't work. If iPad is that restrictive, then I don't like it. I also don't like nook for the same reason -- namely nook has a wifi but doesn't let the customers use it for anything except buying books from B&N. Why should I pay for a "feature" I am not allowed to use? Does that mean I hate B&N? No, if I want to buy a book or magazine I still go to B&N -- I just don't spend my money on a nook designed to lock me into only being able to spend more money on a nook. Do I "love" Kindle -- no, it has a crappy web browser, is slow to open PDF files, has the lousy slow AT&T "whispernet" connection etc. Yet even with these restrictions I CAN get things done with Kindle, whereas iPad successfully blocks everything I try to do.
At first you denied using iBooks at all, don't you remember???
No. Quote me when.
I told you we tried Stanza, because I told you about the large blurry iPod
Actually, you spoke of that as if it were a hypothetical...
I don't think I did. Quote me when.
So, you are admitting you never asked for what you didn't get.
Strange. Why would I ask for the privilege of paying a subscription fee to develop apps for a device that doesn't work?
You seem to be bringing up something new, and of great interest.
I have talked about it before on this same forum so it is not new and flamed Amazon for their stupidity then just as I am flaming Apple for their stupidity now. Search on "1984 Amazon" if anyone is interested in the "1984" Amazon Kindle act of stupidity. Read http://manuals.info.apple.com/en_US/iPad_User_Guide.pdf re iTunes syncing if you want to read about Apple's act of stupidity.
Now, just above, you said you were using iBooks, doesn't that count?
iBooks was on the iPad already, so no, I didn't download it. When I went back to the Apple store again last night at your suggestion they repeated that I was not allowed to download apps and that if I tried to do so it would not work. I waited till they were not looking, tried downloading apps, and eventually figured out how to get the app downloads to work. The apps *themselves* once downloaded however do not allow downloading of free ePub and MOBI books from a website of my choosing, storing those on the iPad for reading later, so the apps you ask me to install don't do anything interesting or useful to me.
You keep short-changing Wattpad, which I think I mentioned first.
I did download Wattpad and it simply yet another app that ties to one particular server on the internet downloading a subset of PG books lightly reformatted from ASCII plaintext.
When at the Apps Store, just search for "ebooks" and "books" etc.
How many times have I said that???
I did that, tried everything, again the apps out there all connect to a private server on the internet downloading a subset of PG books lightly reformatted from ASCII plaintext. iBooks is a bit better in that they take PG ePub, hack it to represent it as-if it comes from Apple, and redistribute it from their servers. This also means that they only serve up a subset of PG works, and it means that it is not useful for content development, such as SR from DP. Kindle for iPad is a bit better in that they again take PG books, hack it to represent it as-if it comes from Amazon, and redistribute it from their servers -- but do it on a better reader app than iBooks. Which again means that they only serve up a subset of PG works, and it means that it is not useful for content development, such as SR from DP.
(Re Goodreader) You download it from the Apps Store. . . .
But IT in turn cannot download ePub or MOBI books from a general location on the internet.
No, they just worked around their current version of Steve Jobs, such as working around IBM, then Apple, then Microsoft, and Intel, and ADM, Sony and all the rest. . . .
Thinking back in time I think this was a somewhat true statement when app distribution was via computer stores. Since the internet has caught on I haven't had problems distributing content nor apps to whoever I want. The internet has a problem in that searching is via Google, and Google in turn does their own monopolistic practices, such as refusing to return a search "hit" on small websites even if you search on the exact name of that website -- unless one sends copious advertising dollars to Google.
If you read the following carefully, you will see that Jim Adcock has continued to change the frames of reference of his decisions, which were, obviously, already made before he did his research. As we all have heard from very reliable and value sources, quite literally even the best research techniques suffer greatly via a new interpretation by someone leaning in any biased direction. The point is, and always has been, that Apple and the iPad NEVER were a real consideration for Mr. Adcock and he just keeps on in the process of making more and more OBVIOUS objections that were ALREADY OBVIOUS from the start. ALL OBVIOUS, ALL THE TIME, NOTHING NEW, JUST RANTING AND RAVING. I use his own words from below to help you decide: "Then why in gawds name would anyone want to get an iPad as an ebook reader?" Mr. Adcock NEVER wanted to get an iPad as an eBook reader. This was never a choice that was up for discussion. The only discussion from him: all the reasons he wouldn't. This is what THE LIST OF FAMOUS FALLACIES calls the trick of: "THE DOG IN THE MANGER." Just another secondary school fallacy brought back to life as if by a rather limited Frankenstein. Frankenstein's monster was much more of a humanist. . . . On Tue, 20 Apr 2010, James Adcock wrote:
[Changed the header per Michaels request]
Once again, I repeat, I don't care about any one particular format, so please stop pretending this is a valid topic with me,
But then why do you keep offering advice to me that you know will not work for me because I *am* interested in eBook formats and eBook content development such as DP does which is HTML rendered into ePub and MOBI? PG doesn't even typically support PDF so how does the fact tha Safari happens to kind of support reading documents in PDF have anything to do with PG?
And just how many systems do you have, or know of, that wifi to two wifi spots at the same time???
My generic $300 netbook has absolutely no problem whatsoever fresh out of the box using wifi to transfer files either from the internet or to/from the publically shared folders of all my locally networked computers. I never have to change a wifi setting just to get a file from a differing location!
Sorry, reading the manual and looking up Apps does not qualify you with any actual experience on the subject.
OK I spent another 3+ hours at the Apple Store (bricks and mortor) last night trying all the "books" apps there including all of your suggestions and none of them do anything "reasonable" like actually allowing one to transfer a ePub or MOBI file from a chosen location on the internet onto the iPad and allowing one to read that eBook there.
Not to mention that YOU did not mention, once again, the actual NAME of the products you are claiming so much expertise about.
I tried all the ones you mentioned previous plus all the ones searchable via the App Store searching on "book" or "ebooks" as you suggested previously.
Nevertheless, if, at the end of all this, you send me a list of questions, comments, complaints, etc., I will try to go get you answers from Apple.
The question, complain, comments, etc would be the same as from the start, namely:
"If in fact one can do so on iPad, how does one use iPad to download a free eBook in ePub or MOBI format via wifi from an internet site that I choose, storing that ePub or MOBI eBook on the iPad, and then get iPad to open that eBook for reading at this and/or a later date -- when I may or may not have an internet connection?"
This is quite possible from Kindle (whispernet), desktops, laptops, and netbooks, for example, so I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation.
And hasn't Apple made it totally obvious you can't do with with an iPad???
Then why in gawds name would anyone want to get an iPad as an ebook reader?
Ah, now, at this late stage, you have added that you want to edit eBooks on the iPad.
I can live without it. What makes iPad uninteresting to me is if one cannot use wifi to download an ePub or MOBI file from a location of my own choosing. I can't edit eBooks on the Kindle, for example, but the Kindle does allow me to bookmark problem spots in the text I am SR'ing, and then I can transfer the bookmarks to my desktop, use that info to locate the problems in the text under development, and fix it there.
If you spent the same four hours' worth on a Kindle, and liked it so much you were already programming with it, I can't imagine why you are having this conversation at all.
I think if you have been following these conversations at all over the preceding months you would know that I am not in love with any particular ebook reader which is why I am still on the outlook for something that would work better. Apple hyped how much better iPad would be, so I tried it, and found that in fact it consists of demoware.
Unless it is just to moan and complain in front of an audience to somehow "get even" with Apple for being. . .well. . .Apple.
I have to admit I have not spent much time on Apple desktops or laptops but I cannot believe that Apple could possibly be *this* restrictive on their desktops or laptops or they would be out of business. The question is not then whether or not I like Apple, but rather whether or not iPad offers anything new and interesting in terms of an eBook Reader. You claimed it did. I tried it and it doesn't work. If iPad is that restrictive, then I don't like it. I also don't like nook for the same reason -- namely nook has a wifi but doesn't let the customers use it for anything except buying books from B&N. Why should I pay for a "feature" I am not allowed to use? Does that mean I hate B&N? No, if I want to buy a book or magazine I still go to B&N -- I just don't spend my money on a nook designed to lock me into only being able to spend more money on a nook. Do I "love" Kindle -- no, it has a crappy web browser, is slow to open PDF files, has the lousy slow AT&T "whispernet" connection etc. Yet even with these restrictions I CAN get things done with Kindle, whereas iPad successfully blocks everything I try to do.
At first you denied using iBooks at all, don't you remember???
No. Quote me when.
I told you we tried Stanza, because I told you about the large blurry iPod
Actually, you spoke of that as if it were a hypothetical...
I don't think I did. Quote me when.
So, you are admitting you never asked for what you didn't get.
Strange. Why would I ask for the privilege of paying a subscription fee to develop apps for a device that doesn't work?
You seem to be bringing up something new, and of great interest.
I have talked about it before on this same forum so it is not new and flamed Amazon for their stupidity then just as I am flaming Apple for their stupidity now. Search on "1984 Amazon" if anyone is interested in the "1984" Amazon Kindle act of stupidity. Read http://manuals.info.apple.com/en_US/iPad_User_Guide.pdf re iTunes syncing if you want to read about Apple's act of stupidity.
Now, just above, you said you were using iBooks, doesn't that count?
iBooks was on the iPad already, so no, I didn't download it. When I went back to the Apple store again last night at your suggestion they repeated that I was not allowed to download apps and that if I tried to do so it would not work. I waited till they were not looking, tried downloading apps, and eventually figured out how to get the app downloads to work. The apps *themselves* once downloaded however do not allow downloading of free ePub and MOBI books from a website of my choosing, storing those on the iPad for reading later, so the apps you ask me to install don't do anything interesting or useful to me.
You keep short-changing Wattpad, which I think I mentioned first.
I did download Wattpad and it simply yet another app that ties to one particular server on the internet downloading a subset of PG books lightly reformatted from ASCII plaintext.
When at the Apps Store, just search for "ebooks" and "books" etc.
How many times have I said that???
I did that, tried everything, again the apps out there all connect to a private server on the internet downloading a subset of PG books lightly reformatted from ASCII plaintext. iBooks is a bit better in that they take PG ePub, hack it to represent it as-if it comes from Apple, and redistribute it from their servers. This also means that they only serve up a subset of PG works, and it means that it is not useful for content development, such as SR from DP. Kindle for iPad is a bit better in that they again take PG books, hack it to represent it as-if it comes from Amazon, and redistribute it from their servers -- but do it on a better reader app than iBooks. Which again means that they only serve up a subset of PG works, and it means that it is not useful for content development, such as SR from DP.
(Re Goodreader) You download it from the Apps Store. . . .
But IT in turn cannot download ePub or MOBI books from a general location on the internet.
No, they just worked around their current version of Steve Jobs, such as working around IBM, then Apple, then Microsoft, and Intel, and ADM, Sony and all the rest. . . .
Thinking back in time I think this was a somewhat true statement when app distribution was via computer stores. Since the internet has caught on I haven't had problems distributing content nor apps to whoever I want. The internet has a problem in that searching is via Google, and Google in turn does their own monopolistic practices, such as refusing to return a search "hit" on small websites even if you search on the exact name of that website -- unless one sends copious advertising dollars to Google.
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The point is, and always has been, that Apple and the iPad NEVER were a real consideration for Mr. Adcock and he just keeps on in the process of making more and more OBVIOUS objections that were ALREADY OBVIOUS from the start.
You keep saying things that are not true of me Michael, and which are not true of the iPad. It certainly was not obvious to me that the iPad would not allow download of ePub and MOBI via wifi. It is also not true that the iPad was not a real consideration for me, and it is also not true that I wouldn't reconsider the iPad if the future OS is less restrictive. I don't understand why it is that *you* are so defensive about the iPad? Because you bought one??? I buy a lot of Dell computers, but if someone states an opinion that Dell is a load of cr*p then I'm not going to get bent out of shape, and if someone says that Amazon or Mickeysoft have made a hell of a lot of stupid decisions in their day -- well, I couldn't agree with that more!
On Tue, 20 Apr 2010, James Adcock wrote:
The point is, and always has been, that Apple and the iPad NEVER were a real consideration for Mr. Adcock and he just keeps on in the process of making more and more OBVIOUS objections that were ALREADY OBVIOUS from the start.
You keep saying things that are not true of me Michael, and which are not true of the iPad. It certainly was not obvious to me that the iPad would not allow download of ePub and MOBI via wifi.
1. I think most of what you get on iPad IS .epub, is it not? 2. I think Apple made it pretty obvious about other formats to most.
It is also not true that the iPad was not a real consideration for me, and
I only have your own words upon which to base such. I wrote an extended piece about it, but our CEO has asked me to tone down my responses to you, even if you don't, so I didn't send it. However, if you ask for it I will ask him to reconsider his request.
it is also not true that I wouldn't reconsider the iPad if the future OS is
As if any Apple OS, other than UNIX based, has been so.
less restrictive. I don't understand why it is that *you* are so defensive about the iPad? Because you bought one???
I hate defending Apple, or any other billion dollar organization. However, when you come out and give the iPod Stanza app example-- well--someone has to immediately answer THIS IS NOT THE CASE!!! I provided several such examples, with no thanks for my effort. However, when you come out and say you cannot download PG files-- well--someone has to immediately come out and download PG files! No, not all formats, and certainly not all files, but the blanket statement that it cannot be done only requires ONE example to get proven false. I provided just such examples. With no thanks. However, you did finally say thanks for at least one thing, and I can't say you haven't given any thanks at all, but you certainly, we all must admit, have not been encouraging my efforts. Unless you think I thrive of discouraging remarks.
I buy a lot of Dell computers, but if someone states an opinion that Dell is a load of cr*p then I'm not going to get bent out of shape, and if someone says that Amazon or Mickeysoft have made a hell of a lot of stupid decisions in their day -- well, I couldn't agree with that more!
I'm just trying to balance out some rather general complaints you have made with some rather specific contradictions. If you had asked, "How can I. . ." instead of your blanket typing "you can't. . ." you might have gotten something a bit different. However, blanket statements and single examples deserve proven in direct fashion to be incorrect which it is so obvious. Let's face it, you CAN get higher-resolution eBook performance on iPads than with your example of the iPod Stanza app, and in quite a few different apps that are free of charge. Let's face it, you CAN go directly to pglaf.org and get eBooks. No, not all formats, and who knows if all titles, but lots. Let's face it, you didn't even try iBooks the first four hours. You didn't seem to want to try Wattpad, either. It's hard to consider your research as open when it's like this. I spent a lot of time and effort working to answer your questions and when I stated simple results of simple experiments you said I was flaming and trashing you. If someone says 2+2 is not 4, I have a right to challenge that in plain sight without being accused of flaming or trashing.
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I spent a lot of time and effort working to answer your questions and when I stated simple results of simple experiments you said I was flaming and trashing you.
And I spent a lot of time and effort and a little bit of money in an Apple Store trying out what you suggested and it didn't work. Yes I can download something from PG, just not ePub nor MOBI. Yes Apple provides something on iBooks, just not something with the PG name in it. Yes Apple provides something on iPad but just no way to use wifi to do content dev in ePUB or MOBI aka SR for DP or solos. Yes you can overcome these limitations if you use USB instead of wifi but I thought the whole point of iPad at least from my point of view is that it HAS wifi. Well, so does a nook and a nook doesn't allow you to use it either. Etc. I think I was pretty clear about what I wanted, and you kept claiming iPad could do it, and I kept trying it, and guess what it can't -- at least not by way of any of your suggestions, nor by way of anything else listed under "books" or "ebooks" in the Apple App Store. I've tried about two dozen applets by now including the ones you suggested. I think its fair to say I've wasted much more time on this subject by now and done much more research into it than you have, so its not clear to me what *you* are complaining!
On Wed, 21 Apr 2010, James Adcock wrote:
I spent a lot of time and effort working to answer your questions and when I stated simple results of simple experiments you said I was flaming and trashing you.
And I spent a lot of time and effort and a little bit of money in an Apple Store trying out what you suggested and it didn't work.
Yes I can download something from PG, just not ePub nor MOBI.
You are either not reading my reports, or ignoring them. Go back and try again, otherwise I'll just let you talk yourself out, as has been suggested to me already.
Yes Apple provides something on iBooks, just not something with the PG name in it.
As above. You're just not trying what I suggested. You are doing something else, then complaining it didn't work. You are obviously just not willing to put in the effort, neither on your iPad research, nor in holding up your end of the conversation. This has been a VERY BUSY WEEK/MONTH for me, and I have give you in excess of what it appears I should have. My apologies. . .I am sure you, and others, would have been happier had I simply ignored, which I will start to do now, as advised. First of all, please let me apologize for having been so busy, it has been an incredible few weeks coming up to and now after my first university wide acceptance of my work, and a speech I gave about a week ago, from which I still have not caught up a whole way to my normal energetic levels. I'm still catching up on my sleeping, even sleeping through an earlier half of the garage sales. If you did not know, garage sales are pretty much my favorite thing to do along with work. Therefore, my messages may have been entirely too brief, or to the point, or not full of the materials I am world renowned to borrow at length from "The Tact and Diplomacy Department." If you look up the motto of the department, it is so obvious. Meanwhile, I am now trying to make contact with all those whom I promised I would about a week ago, none of whom have done it in my direction, so I really have no idea if YOU were serious, when it came to continuing our discussion. Normally I presume if someone has not contacted me in a week-- they are not interested at all--and waiting additional weeks-- rarely proves otherwise. However. . .MY INTEREST has not waned. . . . So, if you are willing to pursue our conversation further just let me know, and if not, no reply is required. After all, it IS "The Year of the eBook," and I expect busy to busier to busiest, when it comes to all the years of my life. If you would like to keep up with my thoughts and events I can put you on a list I send to at odd times with even odder junk. Again, if not, no reply is required, no offense taken. It was very nice talking with you, Michael S. Hart Founder Project Gutenberg, Inventor of eBooks
Yes Apple provides something on iPad but just no way to use wifi to do content dev in ePUB or MOBI aka SR for DP or solos.
Yes you can overcome these limitations if you use USB instead of wifi but I thought the whole point of iPad at least from my point of view is that it HAS wifi. Well, so does a nook and a nook doesn't allow you to use it either.
Etc.
I think I was pretty clear about what I wanted, and you kept claiming iPad could do it, and I kept trying it, and guess what it can't -- at least not by way of any of your suggestions, nor by way of anything else listed under "books" or "ebooks" in the Apple App Store. I've tried about two dozen applets by now including the ones you suggested. I think its fair to say I've wasted much more time on this subject by now and done much more research into it than you have, so its not clear to me what *you* are complaining!
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Jim Adcock wrote:
With Stanza you can download directly from PG and many other free publishers.
Sorry, but are you saying that you are actually currently running Stanza on an iPad, that you have tested this, and that it works? From what I can see they only have an iPod version, which yes will run on iPad -- and create a blurry simulation of an iPod on your iPad.
I didn't because Apple sent me no iPad and I never bought from Apple in my life nor will I unless they radically change their business model. By Lexcycle's own claim Stanza is compatible with the iPad: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/stanza/id284956128?mt=8 I run Stanza on a Touch and download dozens of PG ePubs every day. Just point a new 'Book Source' at m.gutenberg.org (Don't publish this url because we have not enough server horsepower behind it yet.) -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org
participants (6)
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Bowerbird＠aol.com -
James Adcock -
Jim Adcock
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Marcello Perathoner -
Michael McDermott -
Michael S. Hart