roger said:
Here's an update on my "zero markup" experiment.
oh roger. roger, roger, roger. what a baffling thread this has been. i don't even know where to begin... i do need to say that i'm very sorry that none of your friends here told you that your "zero markup" is one and the same with my "zen markup"... indeed, for the first years, i even called it "zero markup". (i renamed it "zen" because it's cooler; but "z" always was a mere placeholder, so i can say i'm "two steps past" x.m.l.) so when i read your initial post on this, i wondered if you were just punking me. (i suspect that you do indeed have some friends here on this list, but they did not say anything to wise you up because they were as perplexed by your post as i was.) the language you used was a very close paraphrasing of language _i_ have used, and been using here for 8+ years now... you can see this for yourself if you google "zero markup language", where you'll find lots of cases of that exact same language. but it didn't seem like you were punking. it seemed like you were serious about it. which was even _more_ baffling, honestly. for years, you have dumped on me, roger. not constantly, or extreme, but you _did_. is it really true that -- for all that time -- you had not one clue about the major idea i promulgated on this list that whole time? that's a _shocking_ admission, roger. it says you judged me without considering the entirety of the evidence in front of you. that shows you don't have one bit of class. and, as bad, you don't do your homework. and i don't say any of that in anger, either. it's just a straightforward assessment of it. but it's a damning one. it woulda been better to say you were just punking me than to admit you're ignorant, especially as the ignorance is self-inflicted. and to be ignorant about what i have done _and_ diss me in addition? inexcusable... like i said, i'm sorry i had to be the one to tell you this. i know it woulda been better coming from a friend, and much earlier, when you could have "explained it away" by saying "i thought what i was saying is different from what bowerbird says, but upon further reflection i see that it's not", or something like that... but now you are just plain stuck in the middle of the road, with cars whizzing all about, to and fro... plus you've made yourself look very bad. it's sad. *** as for your success, or lack of it, i'm uncertain. perhaps you haven't worked on it long enough? because i'm getting my z.m.l. to work just fine. and the things that you consider to be obstacles are problems that i solved a long, long time ago. either that or they aren't really problems at all... of course, i'm not navigating marcello's workflow, because -- frankly -- his approach will not work, at least not easily, or in a mutually satisfying way. (marcello doesn't care about mutual satisfaction.) so i'd suggest that you overthrow that workflow. and once you've removed that political obstruction, you'll discover the technical challenges melt away...
I don't know where I'm going with this from here, if anywhere.
that's ok. i can direct z.m.l.'s progress just fine. so i'll take it from here, roger. -bowerbird
Bowerbird wrote:
i do need to say that i'm very sorry that none of your friends here told you that your "zero markup" is one and the same with my "zen markup"... indeed, for the first years, i even called it "zero markup".
Technology that a developer won't release might as well not exist. If I had access to your code and could use it to generate some texts, then I wouldn't have to go off and figure it out myself. Don't feel sorry for me. If you have this technology and won't release it, then feel sorry for countless people who might have benefited from it.
so when i read your initial post on this, i wondered if you were just punking me.
I don't do that. You know that. Life is too short for games.
for years, you have dumped on me, roger. not constantly, or extreme, but you _did_.
Really? I actually value your technical posts. They come with a price, but you aren't in my kill file because you often come up with useful information. I don't think I've said anything negative about you in years, and that was back when I felt it was important to defend myself. Now, not so much. It's all part of being on this list. I get that.
as for your success, or lack of it, i'm uncertain. perhaps you haven't worked on it long enough? because i'm getting my z.m.l. to work just fine.
Again, it's not interesting and even less important if you get your z.m.l. working if you won't share it. You say I haven't worked on it long enough? Are you the same person who said I shouldn't work on it at all because you already have it done? But wait, you won't share it, so yes if I want to advance the art, I'll have to do it myself. Turns out, I think there are some serious stumbling blocks. For example, I have yet to work out an algorithm that reliably detects long lines of centered poetry versus a block quote (or nested block quote). To wrap or not depends on deciding if the inner block really is poetry, and that takes looking beyond structure. Even checking the end of lines for words that rhyme isn't bulletproof. Another one I don't have an answer to is when a few lines of poetry are inside a paragraph. There is no reliable way I've found to tell if the continuation line after the embedded poetry is a new paragraph or not. Not without looking at parts of speech. Initial letter capitalization of course isn't enough. You may have figured these out, which might be valuable if you shared z.m.l. It's your call to withhold z.m.l. and I seem to remember the reasons stated were personal more than technical. I'm guessing it's both, but reasons really aren't important. I don't think your or my z.m.l. implementation can do all that I want it to. My code is freely available and if someone does want to advance this "zero markup" technology they can download my Python source code and run with it. --Roger
participants (2)
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Bowerbird＠aol.com -
Roger Frank