On Sun, 27 Feb 2011, Jim Adcock wrote:

...

Is there any way to surf on a Kindle without setting up an Amazon account and making up a password. . .???

I haven't actually tried going without an Amazon account, but the Kindle manual implies that setting up an Amazon account and registering a device is optional, and only necessary if one wants to buy and download ebooks directly from Amazon.

By "surf on a Kindle" I assume you mean using the Kindle's built-in "Experimental" web browser to access the internet directly and download books directly from internet sites such as Gutenberg.org, which should be possible without an Amazon account.

Maybe someone getting a new Kindle can actually try and confirm that it is possible to use the web browser prior to registering a device? [I'd hate to have to deregister a Kindle which I have already registered just to check this out]

I will have my hands on a non-registered Kindle in a couple weeks, and only registered the other one a week ago AFTER I tried browsing and it told me, in no uncertain terms, that I had to register before I could surf via the browser. . . . However, I broke down and let a friend register it because I wanted SOOO badly to try out Jim Adcock's "gutmagic" at http://bit.ly/gutmagic Just as my own personal comment, I think Mr. Adcock's program should be the very first thing anyone tries out on their Kindle, and I would LOVE to see versions for nook, Kobo, iPad, iPhone, iPod, Sony, etc., etc., etc! Whatever I can do to encourage this. . .please let me know. . . . Wow!!! Michael

As Jim, and so many others, have found out, there are plenty of naysayers who like to pretend they are Project Gutenberg, so I once again suggest a strategy of going around their Maginot Line of nays, and just ask me, and or Greg Newby, when they say no to so many things. I don't know who said no to .mobi formats, as I recall that we posted any number of .mobi files in the past, and I am certainly willing to promote, non-exclusively of course, your .mobi files and other items. Greg Newby and I discussed some of this last week, which resulted in some message to Mr. Adcock, but I don't know if he received it, as no reply is apparently in Dr. Newby's inbox. . .though I know he is very busy today-- please keep trying, and cc:me so I can bring it to his attention. More thanks!!!!!!! Michael On Sun, 27 Feb 2011, Jim Adcock wrote:

...

However, I broke down and let a friend register it because I wanted SOOO badly to try out Jim Adcock's "gutmagic" at http://bit.ly/gutmagic

...

Just as my own personal comment, I think Mr. Adcock's program should be the very first thing anyone tries out on their Kindle, and I would LOVE to see versions for nook, Kobo, iPad, iPhone, iPod, Sony, etc., etc., etc!

Well, FWIW nook, Kobo, iPad, iPhone, iPod, Sony etc should be happy reading the EPUB version which I posted right next to the MOBI version. Whether it "works" on any of these devices however, depends entirely on the manufacturer of a particular device and whether or not they have implemented anything on their device that *prevents* "Magic Catalog" from working on that device. It does "work" on ADE on a desktop computer, for example.

But, in any case, thanks for the kind words, and let me give you a brief "history" of "Magic Catalog" and then it should be "obvious" what "PG" [whoever that is] could do to help support it.

I had created this site a couple years ago called freekindlebooks.org after "PG" [whoever that is] refused to let me use the PG site to upload mobi formatted versions of the PG files, and I was predicting that Kindle would be a very popular device, and a good device to use to read PG books on. PG at the time had "Anointing King" a format called "Plucker" which I couldn't see there being much future for. I had discovered, to my pleasant surprise, a day or two after buying one of the first Kindles that Amazon, much to my surprise, had NOT locked out the ability to directly download MOBI files using the Kindle's web browser [pretty much "every" mobile device manufacturer since Kindle has locked out this ability, for pretty obvious reasons.] But the very weak Kindle browser didn't much like the awkward frames-based PG website design of the time, making it virtually impossible for the average user to download directly from the PG website [the brain-dead-simple HTML format of freekindlebooks.org was designed to be Kindle 1.0 friendly]. I had downloaded the PG content using the custom DVD generation software, so I put together a hack program to join together author/title names to PG file locations -- a capability that I haven't found a trivial way to do yet, and to include illustrated vs. non-illustrated version of the files, and to exclude copyrighted works [because I just didn't want to mess with *that* issue] I left the files sorted by PG submission order, because, frankly, the more popular works were done years ago, and because I think that casual linear browsing is frankly more fun for most people ["ooh, there's a book on logging in 1882, I've never read anything like that"] than having to search on author/title which assumes one even knows the author/title one is interested in. Unfortunately "Magic Catalog" has to ignore the PG requests to direct users to the PG "landing sites" because PG insists on displaying multiple file formats on one page, and those pages, once again [*sigh*] insist on using HTML frames. Also "Magic Catalog" was a once-off hack that I generated one-time only back a couple years ago -- which tells you something about including all PG content [not that anyone is actually going to browse thru all 35,000 titles anyway...]

So, here's some suggestions:

First, I am perfectly happy if PG wants to "host" "as their own" the existing "Magic Catalog"'s, since it is basically just based on PG catalog information. I can probably find the existing HTML "source code" for the it if you prefer. The only thing "magic" about it is how much easier it makes it to download books onto a Kindle or a non-locked-down EPUB device -- as you have discovered. The current software I used to generate "Magic Catalog" is super-hack one-off so that won't do you any good.

If you were to make it easy somehow to take a PG book# and get title/author info and file location from that book# then it would be easy to generate this "Magic Catalog"

The catalog ought to be updated relatively frequently to include new content.

You really ought to be hosting this yourself, which you are welcome to do.

You really ought to support simple, frameless, one-file-format "landing sites" -- which include "how to donate" info at the bottom -- so that things like "Magic Catalog" can target a PG-friendly landing site, and you can get credit -- and donations -- where credit and donations are due.

You really ought to support, both in your version of "Magic Catalog", and your website in general, more fun and interesting ways to find books, rather than the current author/title method -- perhaps including a simple book# linear scroll like Magic Catalog uses, and perhaps an "I feel lucky" option.

Cheers, and let me know what I can do to help [without having to get up off my butt -- as my brother-in-law likes to say!]

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Jim Adcock wrote:

I had created this site a couple years ago called freekindlebooks.org

If you were to make it easy somehow to take a PG book# and get

[snip] Thanks for sharing that interesting history. title/author

info and file location from that book# then it would be easy to generate this "Magic Catalog"

Go to this page: http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Gutenberg:Feeds and try taking a look at the RDF catalog It should be able to do what you are asking fo here.

You really ought to support, both in your version of "Magic Catalog", and your website in general, more fun and interesting ways to find books, rather than the current author/title method

Well, this may not be what you were thinking of, but I think many people are interested in the lists of most-often-downloaded books. Also, with the newest version of the site, you can see the most-often downloaded within a certain category or language (although the categories are based in the "bookshelves", which are only sporadically updated these days.) --Andrew

Try taking a look at one record that we know is copyrighted, off the top of my head I know of the two Jorge Camacho books. Try #27593, La Majstro kaj Martinelli --Andrew On Tue, 1 Mar 2011, Jim Adcock wrote:

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Go to this page: http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Gutenberg:Feeds and try taking a look at the RDF catalog It should be able to do what you are asking fo here.

Yes, the only thing I'm not sure the RDF includes correctly is the copyright info? Every entry I've read just seems to say "&lic"

-- In Magic Catalog I put a C on those rare downloads that have a copyright status, to warn the user that that download comes with restrictions.

I talked to Greg about this already and we are obviously going to need some serious volunteers to carry this out. Please advise if you have suggestions or would like to volunteer. Thanks!!! Michael On Wed, 2 Mar 2011, James Adcock wrote:

...

Try taking a look at one record that we know is copyrighted, off the top of my head I know of the two Jorge Camacho books.

Yes, you're right, it works -- I have forwarded to Greg and Michael a C++ program to generate "Magic Catalog" from the catalog.rdf -- thanks -- hopefully they will decide to pick up support for this.

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Please advise if you have suggestions or would like to volunteer.

Sorry, but I just sent sent you and Greg a copy of a C++ program that will generate a "Magic Catalog" based on whatever your most recent catalog.rdf is. You just need to decide how often you want to regenerate "Magic Catalog" and where you want to put it on your website. You do need to "compile" the resulting html source file for mobi and epub using your existing html->mobi and html->epub pipeline. So, if you will, "I have already volunteered." It should take less than a hour for any of your web guys to finish getting this work integrated into your website.

On Sunday, 27th February 2011 at 16:59:19 (GMT -0800 PST), Michael S. Hart wrote:

I wanted SOOO badly to try out Jim Adcock's "gutmagic" at http://bit.ly/gutmagic

Just as my own personal comment, I think Mr. Adcock's program should be the very first thing anyone tries out on their Kindle, and I would LOVE to see versions for nook, Kobo, iPad, iPhone, iPod, Sony, etc., etc., etc!

GutMagic already works perfectly on the iPad and iPhone. Perhaps Jim could update the wording of the links or their descriptions? You know, lay folks don't really know (or care) what a "MOBI Edition" or "EPUB Edition" is. I would prefix the first link with the word "Kindle" (nice & bold), and the second heading with "iPad, iPhone" (again, nice & bold). Here a couple of screenshots of what GutMagic looks like in my customized Stanza on the iPad & iPhone: * iPad: http://aboq.org/misc/GutMagic-iPad.png * iPhone: http://aboq.org/misc/GutMagic-iPhone.png This is what makes Stanza so great, and both iBooks and Kindle for iOS so insufficient. Stanza allows you the full customization of reading content -- most crucially, it allows you to set the font (dozens of fonts for your choosing), as well as the font's colour and the background of the page. Neither iBooks, nor Kindle for iOS allow these things (or only in a very limited fashion). And, when people say the common flaw for e-book producers is that they needlessly try to emulate the *look* of a printed page on an electronic device, both iBooks and Kindle for iOS suffer heavily from this flaw. Specifically, the *margins* between the text and the borders of the display are outrageously wide both in iBooks and Kindle for iOS, and you have no way to reduce the margins. This results in *lots* of wasted precious screen real estate -- especially on the iPhone whose screen is so small. In contrast, Stanza allows you to set your preferred margins. As you can see, I set the absolute minimum for margins in Stanza on my iPhone, while setting pretty narrow margins on the iPad, too. In contrast, both iBooks and Kindle for iOS force infuriatingly wide margins onto the users, forcing the users to flip pages a lot more frequently than necessary. The above screenshots show Stanza in "night-mode". That's because I read e-books on my Kindles in day-time, and in Stanza after it gets dark. One touch of a button, and Stanza can switch between "night-mode" and "day-mode". My day-mode in Stanza looks like this: * iPad DayMode: http://aboq.org/misc/GutMagic-iPad-day.png * iPhone DayMode: http://aboq.org/misc/GutMagic-iPhone-day.png -- Yours, Alex. www.aboq.org [processed by "The Bat!", Version 4.2.10.12]

It's interesting to note that last year ... http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/27/amazon-acquires-stanza-an-e-book-ap...

It is perhaps worth noting that Marcello deserves some recognition for this....

Let me also second that the PG website in general seems to be moving in positive directions!

I'd like to hear more about Stanza! Perhaps someone would be willing to write a little intro/FAQ??? Thanks in advance, Michael On Mon, 28 Feb 2011, Keith J. Schultz wrote:

Alas,

Someone, proves it is all in the tools!

regards Keith.

Am 28.02.2011 um 13:53 schrieb a@aboq.org:

...

On Sunday, 27th February 2011 at 16:59:19 (GMT -0800 PST), Michael S. Hart wrote:

...

I wanted SOOO badly to try out Jim Adcock's "gutmagic" at http://bit.ly/gutmagic

...

Just as my own personal comment, I think Mr. Adcock's program should be the very first thing anyone tries out on their Kindle, and I would LOVE to see versions for nook, Kobo, iPad, iPhone, iPod, Sony, etc., etc., etc!

GutMagic already works perfectly on the iPad and iPhone. Perhaps Jim could update the wording of the links or their descriptions? You know, lay folks don't really know (or care) what a "MOBI Edition" or "EPUB Edition" is. I would prefix the first link with the word "Kindle" (nice & bold), and the second heading with "iPad, iPhone" (again, nice & bold).

Here a couple of screenshots of what GutMagic looks like in my customized Stanza on the iPad & iPhone:

* iPad: http://aboq.org/misc/GutMagic-iPad.png * iPhone: http://aboq.org/misc/GutMagic-iPhone.png

This is what makes Stanza so great, and both iBooks and Kindle for iOS so insufficient. Stanza allows you the full customization of reading content -- most crucially, it allows you to set the font (dozens of fonts for your choosing), as well as the font's colour and the background of the page. Neither iBooks, nor Kindle for iOS allow these things (or only in a very limited fashion). And, when people say the common flaw for e-book producers is that they needlessly try to emulate the *look* of a printed page on an electronic device, both iBooks and Kindle for iOS suffer heavily from this flaw. Specifically, the *margins* between the text and the borders of the display are outrageously wide both in iBooks and Kindle for iOS, and you have no way to reduce the margins. This results in *lots* of wasted precious screen real estate -- especially on the iPhone whose screen is so small. In contrast, Stanza allows you to set your preferred margins. As you can see, I set the absolute minimum for margins in Stanza on my iPhone, while setting pretty narrow margins on the iPad, too. In contrast, both iBooks and Kindle for iOS force infuriatingly wide margins onto the users, forcing the users to flip pages a lot more frequently than necessary.

The above screenshots show Stanza in "night-mode". That's because I read e-books on my Kindles in day-time, and in Stanza after it gets dark. One touch of a button, and Stanza can switch between "night-mode" and "day-mode". My day-mode in Stanza looks like this:

* iPad DayMode: http://aboq.org/misc/GutMagic-iPad-day.png * iPhone DayMode: http://aboq.org/misc/GutMagic-iPhone-day.png

-- Yours, Alex. www.aboq.org

[processed by "The Bat!", Version 4.2.10.12]

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I'd like to hear more about Stanza! Perhaps someone would be willing to write a little intro/FAQ???

"Stanza is an EPUB reader application that only runs on the iPhone, iPad, and iPod Touch. They also provide a desktop prototype version which has not been supported for many years."

With the one caveat thaat the kendel app is *not* accessible to blind/ visually impaired users, while the stanza app is. Why is it a company with huge resources like amazon can't make things accessible, but a small one like the makers of stanza were before being acquired can.

On Monday, 28th February 2011 at 12:25:41 (GMT -0600), Jim Adcock wrote:

...

GutMagic already works perfectly on the iPad and iPhone. Perhaps Jim could update the wording of the links or their descriptions? You know, lay folks don't really know (or care) what a "MOBI Edition" or "EPUB Edition" is. I would prefix the first link with the word "Kindle" (nice & bold), and the second heading with "iPad, iPhone" (again, nice & bold).

Go set up an iOS-centric site, or go set up an EPUB centric site yourself!

You're making a mountain out of a mole-hill, Jim. All I suggested for you was to add 3 words (!) to the GutMagic homepage. That would take about 30 seconds for you to do. Here, I have done it for you; I believe the GutMagic homepage would look a lot better for the lay user like this: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10440809/misc/GutMagic.html If you wish, you can use the updated file (or any modification of it you like) for http://bit.ly/gutmagic -- Yours, Alex. www.aboq.org [processed by "The Bat!", Version 4.2.10.12]

On Monday, 28th February 2011 at 19:50:21 (GMT +0100), Marcello Perathoner wrote:

The Google Nexus One makes a *much* better night reading device than the iPhone. Being an LCD, you cannot dim the iPhone background to total darkness!

Why should this be everyone's preference? ;-) You know, even Stanza gives me the option to use "plain black" as my background colour... but pure black was too bleak even for my taste. ;-) As you can see from the screenshot: http://aboq.org/misc/GutMagic-iPad.png I purposefully chose a background texture (called "Red Satin" in Stanza) instead of a solid-colour background. So you can't really say categorically, Nexus One "is a much better night reading device" -- it all depends on your preferences and expectations. Although I agree being able to dim a screen's background to total darkness is a nice feature. Also, the iPhone isn't really my night-reading device anyway; the iPhone is my lunch- or dinner-reading device, if there's no human company present. ;-) My night-reading device is the iPad, and of course the Nexus One's small screen is no match for the iPad's 9.7-inch screen. In fact, I heard Android users bemoaning the lack of a high-quality reading application for Android, the quality Stanza brings on iOS; and they were asking the Stanza developers to port Stanza for Android as well. But, the reply from Stanza folks was that, although they'd love to see Stanza available on all platforms, they currently lack the resources to make that possible. Like we mentioned, Stanza's development on its only platform, iOS, has been minimal since the takeover by Amazon. (Now as to the battery-saving aspect: that is no concern given the iPad's 10-hour battery life, and the fact that users charge their iPads on a daily basis anyway.) -- Yours, Alex. www.aboq.org [processed by "The Bat!", Version 4.2.10.12]

On Monday, 28th February 2011 at 12:53:42 (GMT -0800), Ricky Wong wrote:

...

You know, even Stanza gives me the option to use "plain black" as my background colour... but pure black was too bleak even for my taste. ;-) As you can see from the screenshot: http://aboq.org/misc/GutMagic-iPad.png I purposefully chose a background texture (called "Red Satin" in Stanza) instead of a solid-colour background.

It's interesting that you choose a background like that because I always thought feature is too "gimmicky". Any reason why you pick a background like that rather one that is cleaner and easier on the readability? Is it more "fun" or have the background image match the right book topic etc...?

I don't find solid-black to be "cleaner" or "easier" on readability. Not at all. If it was, I would have chosen it over the "Red Satin" texture. Like I said, I simply found solid-colour backgrounds too boring, so I chose a textured one. And as you saw in the "day" Stanza screenshot ( http://aboq.org/misc/GutMagic-iPad-day.png ), I did the same thing there, choosing a textured, wood-imitating background. For me, it increases the pleasure and enjoyment of reading. Should I attempt to psychoanalyze myself, I could say that "Red Satin" is pleasant because it reminds me of little flames of fire in the night, which (the fire) suggests *passion*, and I find reading to be a *passionate* affair. ;-) And, for the daily texture, the wood reminds me of nature (in pleasant contrast to the electronic device displaying it), and I also find reading to be a *natural* affair. :-) On Monday, 28th February 2011 at 16:19:29 (GMT -0500 EST), Marcello Perathoner wrote:

the iPhone's inferior LCD screen.

A hahahahah! Marcello, you never actually laid eyes on an iPhone 4, right? It's the best screen ever employed on a mobile device, that much is clear and the common consensus among experts and lay folks alike. And yep, even plain-text looks astonishing on the "Retina" display, particularly on Stanza's daily screen ( http://aboq.org/misc/GutMagic-iPhone-day.png ) with letters that are breath-takingly razor-sharp.

I also have an iPad. It is way too heavy to hold

It's not. Particularly not while using it in bed! Because then, of course, it partly rests on (for example) the bed-sheet or your chest, so that your hands don't feel the iPad's weight at all. Similarly, when I use the iPad while sitting in an armchair, I always have it propped up against something (chair arm, leg), not to mention the dedicated iPad stand I also have.

the Nexus is very easy to hold in one hand.

But it's useless for long-term reading due to the tiny screen.

The screen of the iPad is too big.

Not at all: 9.7 inches is exactly right; not too big, not too small. For example, I would definitely find the 7-inch screen of the Samsung Galaxy Tab too small. Not to mention the iPhone or Nexus One -- good enough for short-term reading "on the run", but not for serious reading.

To achieve a comfortable line length you have to either use a huge font or huge margins.

Not at all. As the screenshot shows: http://aboq.org/misc/GutMagic-iPad.png , the letters are *not* huge, and the margins are *narrow*. It's exactly ideal! (Only in Stanza, though; like I said, the iBooks and Kindle apps are deficient in forcing wide margins onto the users.) I also own both the small Kindle and Kindle DX (which is the iPad's size), and I definitely prefer reading on the Kindle DX at home, due to the larger dimensions. (The small Kindle is more suited for carrying around.)

you can turn pages with the volume keys.

Totally useless! Give Stanza a try, Marcello, and you'll see you can flip pages in Stanza by lightly tapping and/or (!) mini-swiping *any* part of the iPad's/iPhone's screen. That way of turning pages is *way* superior over fumbling for volume keys.

It wont fall out of your hand like the iPhone if you try to hold and swipe with one hand.

Marcello, you *don't* need to swipe at all while using Stanza on the iPhone or iPad. All you need is a light tap (tapping the left side of the screen turns to the preceding page, and tapping the right side turns to the next page). A light tap is at *any* time easily possible with your thumb while you're effortlessly holding the iPhone with only one of your hands. Turning pages in Stanza on the iPhone/iPad is *phenomenally* easy precisely because it requires no hardware buttons. *Any* part of the screen will do to turn pages in Stanza -- while hardware buttons only are available on one of the device's 4 sides, which makes turning page far more difficult (unless you force yourself to hold the device in the same way all the time, which would be a nuisance). In fact, this is a huge benefit of the iPhone/iPad over the Kindle: I can turn pages very easily in Stanza, while it's a lot more uncomfortable turning pages on the Kindles, due to the hardware buttons available only in a specific "corner" of the device.

Then tell those `Android users´ you heard moaning that Aldiko is every bit as good as Stanza

Nope, it apparently isn't, because that's exactly what those users were saying: "We only have Aldiko on Android, but it can't compete with Stanza. Please give us Stanza for Android!" I'm sure you can easily google that debate for ya. :-P

You can read DRMed epubs on Aldiko, you cannot on Stanza.

Of course you can, after you spend 2 seconds with the fine drag-and-drop utility called DeDrm.

In a few months it will be way ahead of the unmaintained Stanza.

Stanza was last updated a few days ago, like I reported. The above is only your prediction, Marcello, but based on the collection of absurdly biased statements you've just made in your post, it's hard to put much credence in your predictions. :-) -- Yours, Alex. www.aboq.org [processed by "The Bat!", Version 4.2.10.12]

On Tuesday, 1st March 2011 at 14:34:10 (GMT +0100), Marcello Perathoner wrote:

You even cite vaporous experts (which experts?) and vaporous lay folk (what lay folk?).

All experts and all lay folk. In the history of humankind, there's never been a screen on a mobile device displaying 640 x 960 pixels on a 3.5-inch screen, and that quality shows -- dramatically! To deny the superiority of that screen over all other screens is just inane. (Not necessarily superiority in *all* aspects, see the inability to dim out the background, but *overall* superiority? Sure! In any case, using the phrase "the inferior iPhone 4 screen" the way you did is just ludicrous.)

...

But it's useless for long-term reading due to the tiny screen. It is just right for novels

No, it definitely isn't. I hate turning pages frequently, and I hate small letters -- and that's exactly what a small screen like Nexus One forces you to do: turn pages frequently while spoiling your eye-sight with letters that are too small. Like I said, I also own both Kindles, and whenever I can, I use the Kindle DX (which is the iPad's size), thanks to the comfortable font size *combined* with the need to turn pages less frequently than on the small Kindle (let alone a telephone's screen).

Granted, I wouldn't read Kant on a phone, but I don't find myself reading Kant all too often.

I do, but my preference for larger-screen devices is independent from the nature of the reading material.

Serious reading? The kind with a plushy red background?

Nope, I mean that some folks can do reading for a living. I graduated in English, American and German studies, which requires lots of *serious reading*. To do that type of reading on a *telephone* is a kind of ludicrous idea. ;-)

The volume keys alone make Aldiko superior to Stanza.

Nope: inferior, like I explained in my previous post. Volume keys are only available in a specific location of the device, whereas a touch-screen allows you to turn pages by using *any* tiny section of the touch-screen where your fingers happen to be nearest at that particular moment.

The volume keys happen to be in the exact right position

No, they don't. There is *no* "exact right position" on *any* device, because I like changing the position of the device while I'm reading. Sometimes I like holding/propping up the reading device with my left hand, and at other times with my right hand; since the volume keys are *not* available on *both* sides of the device, they are definitely inferior to turning pages via the touch-screen, because *both* sides of the touch screen can perform the same function for you (and if it's a phone, are reachable for your thumb no matter if it's your right or left thumb). :-P

so you can hit them while holding the phone to your ear.

Pardon me? :-o I use eyes rather than *ears* for reading. :-D

You don't have to move your fingers at all, they work with just a light press.

You only don't have to move your fingers if they *already are* touching the hardware buttons. And, that's a big nuisance: to require your fingers to be always near the required hardware buttons! Like I said, I own both Kindles, Marcello, so I can see on a daily basis how much easier it is to turn pages in Stanza using the touch-screen than it is on the Kindles using their hardware buttons. Kindle DX, although my favourite device for daytime reading, is the worst in this regard, because (inexplicably!) it only features these hardware buttons on the right side, unlike the small Kindle, where the "Next Page" button is available both on the right and on the left side of the device. That is still inferior to Stanza's touch-screen, though.

Now compare that to having to move your thumb all the way

There is no "all the way", Marcello. You only need to move your thumb *half an inch* to turn a page in Stanza, because *any section* of Stanza's touch-screen can be used to turn a page.

then doing some swipe motion

Again, *no swipe motion* is required at all in Stanza. A light tap is enough!

then putting the thumb back where it can hold the phone.

The thumb typically does not hold the phone at all. It merely touches a side of the device, that's all. And unlike with the volume keys, it can be both the right or the left side of the device.

Also, to tap the screen you have to move a digit in front of the screen thus hiding a portion of what you are reading.

Not at all. I don't read the *top* of a page while I'm moving on to the next page -- and it's just as easy to move your thumb to the top section of the iPhone's tiny screen as it is to move your thumb to the lower section of that screen. It's a non-issue. It's as if you said that turning pages in a paper book is problematic for you in that the act obscures the page for a brief moment that you've just finished reading. :-D And here's a feature especially for you, Marcello... Do you know what that swipe that you so despise can do on Stanza? This: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10440809/misc/Stanza_swipe.png As you can see, the simulation of turning physical book pages is immaculate. You can perform a swipe *veeeery graaaadually*, displaying as much content of the 1st/2nd page as you wish. Far from obscuring the content of the page that is being turned, Stanza in fact allows you to accomplish something unique: peeking at the content of *2 pages at the same time*, just as you can do that when turning paper book pages. Can outdated volume keys or any hardware buttons perform this wizardry the way a swipe can? No, sir! And again: swiping in Stanza is an *option* giving you extra features -- not a necessity.

If the digit is the thumb and you hold the phone in your right hand and you are reading a LTR script then you obscure the very last words you need to read before the page turn.

Definitely not! Marcello, that's just unadulterated, dogmatic nonsense from you. I really am surprised. :-o Here is the typical way I hold my iPhone, no matter if in my left or right hand: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10440809/misc/holding_the_iPhone.jpg As you can see, the thumb is nowhere near "the very last words" on the page when you need to turn it! You'd have to have very weird hands if that was the case. ;-) The thumb typically rests towards the *top* side of the iPhone (no matter if right or left), and therefore it's extremely easy to turn the page simply by tapping the screen lightly. No swipe required! And due to the narrow screen, it makes it no more difficult to tap the right or the left side of the screen -- in case you wanted to turn back to the previous page. Plus, there's the additional *option* (not a necessity!) to use a swipe in the required direction.

"Swipe" for page turn is the archetypical user interface faux-pas.

Again, a swipe is *never* needed to turn a page. And, it's not a faux-pas either, but a very smart invention, especially on a large-screen device such as the iPad. Why? Because no matter which side of the iPad you happen to be holding (left, right, top, bottom), you can use a mini-swipe to turn to the next or previous page. Any section of the touch-screen will do! So, while holding the iPad with my left hand, I can *still* turn to the next page while moving my left thumb only half an inch in a mini-swipe; that is, I can use the *left* portion of Stanza's screen to move *forward* as well. In contrast, if I were to use hardware buttons, I'd *always* have to have my fingers near those hardware buttons -- in other words, near *one* specific side of the device. And *that* is a big nuisance (compared to the iPad/iPhone), as daily usage of the Kindles shows me.

The appropriate user interface element for that is a button.

It's not, because a button can only be located *somewhere* on a device, forcing you to keep your fingers close to that specific location. Using the potential of the entire, huge touch-screen for page turning is a lot smarter, a lot more effective and appropriate.

But if you hold the phone palms down, like when laying on your back, it tends to escape.

Sorry, Marcello, but just as I don't read books using my ears, I don't read books while holding *any* device, no matter how light-weight, over my head. You're certainly depicting some weird scenarios there. :-D Reading something while holding the device "palms down" is extremely rare, I'd say -- it would soon tire your entire arm, due to a large portion (or all) of your arm being needlessly suspended in the air. Plus, even during those rare moments when you might be holding a reading device "palms down", it's extremely easy to perform the light tap (no swipe needed!) by moving your thumb, right or left thumb (!), to turn a page.

...

the fine drag-and-drop utility called DeDrm. Of course you have to buy a Mac for that.

Of course you don't. The last time I used a Mac was in the 1990s. -- Yours, Alex. www.aboq.org [processed by "The Bat!", Version 4.2.10.12]

On 03/01/2011 04:12 PM, a@aboq.org wrote:

All experts and all lay folk. In the history of humankind, there's never been a screen on a mobile device displaying 640 x 960 pixels on a 3.5-inch screen, and that quality shows -- dramatically!

The history of humankind: Fire, the wheel and the iPhone screen. Don't you realize how silly you sound? Obviously the consumer disagrees with your `experts´ and your `lay folk´ because they are buying Androids more than twice as fast as iPhones now: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone#Operating_systems BTW the same effect can be observed in photographic gear where Nikon with lower resolution sensors is beating the hell out of former market leader Canon with typically much higher resolution sensors. http://nikonrumors.com/2010/07/08/nikon-1.aspx N.B. Resolution does not equate to image quality, except if you are Steve Jobs.

I don't read books while holding *any* device, no matter how light-weight, over my head. You're certainly depicting some weird scenarios there. :-D

My girlfriend likes to sleep with her head on my breast, but YMMV. -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org

Hi All, Alex and Marcello are both wrong! Though each in some aspects are correct! First, resolution SHOULD generally, produce better results! But, since one threw the image quality of cameras! I laugh at all those nice little cameras that have 10, 12 Megapixel senors. They should be able to make better than my SLR (8 mega, 8 years old) Well, guess what! they do not! So, resolution is not everything. For cameras there are other factors which effect image quality! My friends are always asking me to take pictures for them to because my are better, even though they are taking pictures themselves. They, also wonder why I do not have a smaller camera!! ;-) So much for the user experience and preferences. The same resolution problem is true for ebook devices! Higher resolution gives you the ability to display finer detail. So, the characters should be more defined and offer a better reading experience, and should cause less eye strain. Eye strain was mentioned (at least indirectly). What do the doctors say! You guys can not be serious that reading on "Phones" is healthy for you! Convient, yes! So, even though higher resolution is more pleasing, it will depend on the quality of the displayed book and program used to display it! (In case anyone is wondering. I do not own a Kindle, iPhone, iPad though I have studied them in stores) Touch screens are the better input devices, if designed properly. It is also, the direction of the future computer are going in that direction, it is even truer of tablets and "Phones". On the other side of the user experience. Nostalgia! Remember, the discussion that the printed book will never die! The experience of flipping those pages!! The cold touch of these reading devices! Depending on device you have the sound of that turned page! Size! Larger screens are better. I would think, 9" to 10" would be best for a portable device! What I am missing is the "epaper" displays. They seemed to have disappeared. (epaper where these foil thin displays, lightweight and flexible, had decent resolution, too) In my opinion all readers are to bulky and heavy. I do have to agree with Marcello that the iPad, slightly on the heavy side. But, that is not because of it weight but size. Yet, I see no way of doing it better and as a avid laptop user, find it quite acceptable. A Book is a lot bulkier if not heavier. Price! Dedicated readers are far to expensive, The DX cost as much as an iPad. Yet, from which device do you get more for your buck $$ From what I seen what can be done with iBooks you would think the user experience, would expect that more would get on the band wagon. An iBook has more look and feel towards a printed book. And more, for the user experience. For example, books for young kids (remember pop up and the like). Full color spreads!. Hope IBook comes to the Mac soon!! O.K. O.K. O.K those things PG et. al. are not interested in. But, we are talking about formats, and abilities of devices and standards! regards Keith.

On Mar 1, 2011, at 6:34 AM, Marcello Perathoner wrote:

...

...

You can read DRMed epubs on Aldiko, you cannot on Stanza.

Of course you can, after you spend 2 seconds with the fine drag- and-drop utility called DeDrm.

Of course you have to buy a Mac for that. Of course you have to transfer your books to the Mac and then back to the iPhone. Of course this is illegal.

Actually, no it isn't. I t is not illegal for the owner of a drm file to remove said drm if the drm prevents use of said item. Therefore, stripping the drm off of a book so you can load it onto a device that does not support the original format is perfectly legal, provided of course that the person doing the stripping is the actual owner of the file, and that the same person is the only one to use the drm stripped content. This was done to allow blind and visually impaired users to convert ebooks into a format usable by them. However, since it doesn't specifically state blind or visually impaired in the actual wording, then this becomes legal for everyone. Again, this can only be done if the owner of the drm file does the convertion themselves, and does *not* distribute files created in this way to anyone else, even someone else who may co-own the device in question. Drm publishers really need to get with the program, and stop telling folks that eliminating drm is illegal, because it isn't. They simply aren't willing to let up on this point, because they're afraid it will lead to more piracy. What they fail to notice though is that books w/o drm in the first place sell just as well (in fact, in most cases) better than their drm counterparts. Yes, there's some piracy, but nowhere near the numbers the ebook drm proponents claim, and if you want proof of this, just drop baen.com, and check out some of the editorials by Erich Flint about drm in either the baen's universe magazine, or later issues of the grantville gazette. You can also find an article on such in the baen free library, where Erich explains not only his decision to put some of his books up for free, but the resulting increase in sales he experienced as a result. Drm does nothing but restrict people's ability to enjoy their books in the environment that works best for them.

On 3/21/11 4:10 PM, a@aboq.org wrote:

Thank you, Travis, for debunking that myth that removing DRM from your own e-books is somehow "illegal". I was too infuriated when I originally read that absurd assertion in Marcelo's post, to even bother to reply to it. ;-)

Well, I am sorry to burst your bubble, but for most European jurisdictions Marcelo's assessment is right. Your mileage may vary outside the EU. Regards, Walter

Hi All, I can not give you sources, but can confirm some thoughts and explain some confusion. The licenses are worded quite awkwardly, for one! That generally, state the status quo for the average user what ever that may be. They also have lines in them like if parts of the license are illegal it does not affect the rest and so on. After, saying that most licenses do not respect the rights of certain groups! Take normal printed material, for example! As a student in Germany you can copy part of books for academic purposes! Academics can also publish parts of books in their works, though the copyright notice in books said this can be done! So having said the above there are "special interest groups" that can do certain things that the average person can not do! Now, you have the right to make backup copies of your DVDs. Now, try finding software that keeps the DRM and copy protection intact. Most software can copy these DVDs normally can break the copy protection and DRM. This kind of software is illegal in Germany. So how do you create your legal backup copies! without "breaking the law". You can not. Now, here comes the really hard part. If you do crack the DRM and copy protection will you be prosecuted! Well, here in Germany there is the policy is it of public interest the persecute you! Well, if you do crack the DRM for your own personal use, is this of public interest, ---> NO! So, you have effectively broken the law, but it will not be pursued! Now, take a look at software! When you buy say MS Office you have the right to use it, but effectively you can resell it even if you remove it from your hardware. So if you do sell it to a friend you effectively broken the law. Yet, it is accepted. For all nit pickers, the laws may have changed at least this was true, years, decades ago! So, basically it all comes down to this. Yes, it is illegal to remove DRM, yet it is very likely that you will not be persecuted for doing so as long as you use said copies for your own personal use. It does remain illegal and tolerated. There is also no guarantee that you will not! You would be surprised how many laws you break in everyday life that you are not aware of! regards Keith. Am 22.03.2011 um 04:04 schrieb a@aboq.org:

On Monday, 21st March 2011 at 22:04:47 (GMT +0100), Walter van Holst wrote:

...

...

Thank you, Travis, for debunking that myth that removing DRM from your own e-books is somehow "illegal". I was too infuriated when I originally read that absurd assertion in Marcelo's post, to even bother to reply to it. ;-)

...

Well, I am sorry to burst your bubble, but for most European jurisdictions Marcelo's assessment is right. Your mileage may vary outside the EU.

Can you please direct me to an authoritative source that confirms what you're saying? The Internet is like the Bible: you can find supportive statements in it for just about any assertion anyone cares to make, even if those assertions should contradict one another. I'm sure our current discussion will end up in Google's search engines, and 2 years from now, someone might pull up your and Marcelo's quote to "prove" that doing XYZ is illegal, while someone else might pull up Travis's or my quote, to "prove" that doing XYZ is legal.

So, can you please give us an authoritative source that says that removing DRM from your own e-books solely for your private use is "illegal"? By "authoritative" I don't mean journalistic or blog articles, let alone forum squabbles -- which is the only reference material I came up with when I tried researching the topic using Google. Thanks!

PS: When you mention geography, that's another interesting aspect. If you buy an e-book from the US Amazon site, do different laws apply than if you buy it from a European Amazon site? Is it the location of the seller's site that decides these things, or is it the location of the *buyer* of the e-book? Or is it neither, and it's really the *citizenship* of the buyer of the e-book that is decisive, regardless of in which country the buyer may currently be located? I happen to live in a city bordering 3 different countries, and I can just *walk* into a different country within minutes. If I buy an Amazon book using my iPhone while hiking (or biking) in a neighbouring country, do I need to track on the territory of which country I happened to be located while I purchased that e-book? If I happen to carry a laptop with me and remove the DRM while visiting a neighbouring country, have I (supposedly) broken the law of the country that I visited, or of the country where I live, or both countries, or the US law where the US Amazon site that sold me the book for US dollars resides, or the law of all countries, or the law of no country? The questions are endless. At least when it comes to *web hosting*, the legality is clear: the contents on a web server are governed by the geographical location of that web server. It all gets a lot blurrier with "mobile products" such as e-books, doesn't it?!

-- Yours, Alex. www.aboq.org

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On Tuesday, 22nd March 2011 at 09:03:25 (GMT +0100), Marcello Perathoner wrote:

...

can you please give us an authoritative source that says that removing DRM from your own e-books solely for your private use is "illegal"?

I'm appalled that you don't know the laws of your very own country. Slovakia is in the EU isn't it?

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32001L0029:EN:HT...

Art. 6

Why be so bombastic, Marcello? Like Keith said, no one can possibly know all the laws of the country where they live, and I'm sure that even applies to professional lawyers (!), which most people are not. I once consulted copyright issues with a German lawyer and, in reply to one of my questions, he told me: "Sorry, I'm just not particularly versed with *that area* of our laws. I'd have to research it to give you an answer." There you have it! Second, Marcello, no country is governed by EU Directives. You posted a link to an EU Directive from 2001 -- admittedly an authoritative reference -- that merely says it should be implemented in EU Member States later on. Whether it was indeed later implemented by all EU Memeber States, and in what shape and form in each particular instance, I have no idea. (Do you?) Third, you reference Article 6 of that Directive, but paragraph 4 of that Article explicitly mentions "exceptions and limitations" from copyright laws, referring back to Article 5(2)(b) which, in its turn, explicitly mentions "reproductions on any medium made by a natural person for private use and for ends that are neither directly nor indirectly commercial". So, you have produced an authoritative reference, Marcello, albeit a generic one (on the EU level rather than the level of an individual Member State). But, so far, you have provided zero proof and support for your assertion that "removing DRM from your own e-books solely for your private use is illegal". I'd be happy to discuss and explore this subject further, so we can come up with a definitive answer. I'd even be happy to contact a lawyer in my own country if needed -- if only I knew *what* lawyer, and where, I should turn to. I really have no idea. Finally, strange as it may seem, my unwillingness to use the Kindle app (or even iBooks) to read Kindle books on the iPad and iPhone is primarily related to Travis's health-themed concern. After it gets dark, I only read books in white-on-black mode; I'm positive that this strains your eye-sight far less than reding black-on-white for hours on end, which amounts to staring at a giant white slate radiating bright light right at your face. I also find reading in "white-on-black" on the iPad more relaxing than reading on a Kindle while using external artificial light to illuminate the Kindle. But the "night-mode" in the Kindle app and iBooks is pitiful: in order for "white-on-black" reading mode to work properly, you've got to use a strong font such as Futura offered by Stanza. Delicate serif fonts such as Times, Georgia, but also sans-serif ones like Helvetica/Arial, are possibly even less readable in "white-on-black" than they are in "black-on- white" which is best suited for them. In other words, the Kindle app and iBooks give you no opportunity to select a suitable font for "white-on- black", and that alone should be legal justification enough for anyone to be permitted to convert a Kindle book that they have purchased into EPUB so that they (and no one else) can read it in proper "white-on-black" in Stanza, too. No EU Directive, and no law on earth, can force anyone to damage their health carelessly -- and I'm sure this principle would be upheld by any court, should it come to a trial. Do you agree, Marcello? :-) -- Yours, Alex. www.aboq.org [processed by "The Bat!", Version 4.2.10.12]

On Tuesday, 22nd March 2011 at 13:29:45 (GMT +0100), Marcello Perathoner wrote:

It took me the best part of 2 minutes to find the "authoritative source" you requested.

Sorry, but that source does *not* support your assertion, as I demonstrated. At least not in any readily understandable way. Please guide us, Marcello, to discover in the text of the directive what you, apparently, see in it.

Hint: go to wikipedia and type "DRM" into that box up right. It works!

I'm familiar with Wikipedia's article on "DRM", but I find nothing whatsoever in it supporting your assertion that "removing DRM from your own e-books solely for your private use is illegal". Can you please quote the specific sentences from the Wikipedia article that you have in mind? (And, of course, Wikipedia is anything *but* an authoritative resource.)

I can't help if you can't read.

I'm a trained and certified linguist, Marcello, having graduated in linguistics. It's likely I can read better than most folks, and perhaps *that's* the issue here. :-P You refusing to provide any specific support for your claim just comes across as arrogant -- sorry. Again, the EU Directive you referenced talks about "exceptions and limitations" for copyright laws (in Article 4), and refers back to Article 5(2)(b) which, in its turn, explicitly mentions "reproductions on any medium made by a natural person for private use and for ends that are neither directly nor indirectly commercial". Can you please explain these passages in the Directive for us, Marcello? You certainly just can't brush these passages aside and pretend that they don't exist, can you? A law is a *unit*, rather than a few sentences taken out of context.

Ahoi

Spelling correction: "Ahoj" :-D Vielen Dank, bitte nicht böse sein wegen der Diskussion. -- Yours, Alex. www.aboq.org [processed by "The Bat!", Version 4.2.10.12]

On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 12:27:03 +0100, a@avenarius.sk wrote:

Second, Marcello, no country is governed by EU Directives. You posted a link to an EU Directive from 2001 -- admittedly an authoritative reference -- that merely says it should be implemented in EU Member States later on. Whether it was indeed later implemented by all EU Memeber States, and in what shape and form in each particular instance, I have no idea. (Do you?)

It has been transposed to national law in virtually all member states AFAIK. Generally speaking, you can expect a directive from 2001 to have been implemented by now. You are right that none really can know all the laws of the country one lives in, so I can't tell you whether Slovakia has implemented this directive, but I would be rather surprised if it hasn't.

Third, you reference Article 6 of that Directive, but paragraph 4 of that Article explicitly mentions "exceptions and limitations" from copyright laws, referring back to Article 5(2)(b) which, in its turn, explicitly mentions "reproductions on any medium made by a natural person for private use and for ends that are neither directly nor indirectly commercial".

I would say that is a gross misrepresentation of Section 4 of Article 6 and the case law on the subject agrees with me. What it says is that if DRM causes specific exceptions or limitations to copyright to function no longer, the member states have to supply a mechanism to have that exception or limitation to function again. The list of exceptions and limitations that this applies to does not include the right to make a private copy. It also says that the member states _may_ apply this to the right to make a private copy. Which none have done, as far as I know. The case law has been mostly tangentially related to this issue and mostly French, notably the Mulholland case: http://merlin.obs.coe.int/iris/2008/9/article12.en.html In this case the French court decided that there is no positive right to make a private copy, meaning that this copyright exception does not entitle one to making private copies. There is a Finnish case ongoing: http://www.law.ed.ac.uk/ahrc/script-ed/vol6-3/valimaki.asp One should also bear in mind that section 4 also includes the text "without preventing rightholders from adopting adequate measures regarding the number of reproductions in accordance with these provisions." which means that outright removal of DRM for private copies is never allowed by this directive. I would say that if one gives a thorough reading to the proof Marcello provided, notwithstanding the abrasive manner in which he did, is a lot more than 'zero proof'.

answer. I'd even be happy to contact a lawyer in my own country if needed -- if only I knew *what* lawyer, and where, I should turn to. I really have no idea.

Lawyers tend to advertise their specialisms on their websites. Pick one that does copyright cases, preferably one that also publishes academic papers in that field. Or just ask around to which sections of Slovakian copyright law this directive has been transposed and you probably can read it for yourself. Oh, and when you get around to do so, please report the end-result on this list. It will probably be along the lines of 'Marcello was right'. Regards, Walter

On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 11:23 AM, <a@aboq.org> wrote:

On Monday, 28th February 2011 at 19:50:21 (GMT +0100), Marcello Perathoner wrote:

...

The Google Nexus One makes a *much* better night reading device than the iPhone. Being an LCD, you cannot dim the iPhone background to total darkness!

Why should this be everyone's preference? ;-) You know, even Stanza gives me the option to use "plain black" as my background colour... but pure black was too bleak even for my taste. ;-) As you can see from the screenshot: http://aboq.org/misc/GutMagic-iPad.png I purposefully chose a background texture (called "Red Satin" in Stanza) instead of a solid-colour background. So you can't really say categorically, Nexus One "is a much better night reading device" -- it all depends on your preferences and expectations. Although I agree being able to dim a screen's background to total darkness is a nice feature.

It's interesting that you choose a background like that because I always thought feature is too "gimmicky". Any reason why you pick a background like that rather one that is cleaner and easier on the readability? Is it more "fun" or have the background image match the right book topic etc...?

Also, the iPhone isn't really my night-reading device anyway; the iPhone is my lunch- or dinner-reading device, if there's no human company present. ;-) My night-reading device is the iPad, and of course the Nexus One's small screen is no match for the iPad's 9.7-inch screen. In fact, I heard Android users bemoaning the lack of a high-quality reading application for Android, the quality Stanza brings on iOS; and they were asking the Stanza developers to port Stanza for Android as well. But, the reply from Stanza folks was that, although they'd love to see Stanza available on all platforms, they currently lack the resources to make that possible. Like we mentioned, Stanza's development on its only platform, iOS, has been minimal since the takeover by Amazon.

(Now as to the battery-saving aspect: that is no concern given the iPad's 10-hour battery life, and the fact that users charge their iPads on a daily basis anyway.)

-- Yours, Alex. www.aboq.org

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On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 10:51:44AM -0800, Jim Adcock wrote:

...

Is there any way to surf on a Kindle without setting up an Amazon account and making up a password. . .???

I haven't actually tried going without an Amazon account, but the Kindle manual implies that setting up an Amazon account and registering a device is optional, and only necessary if one wants to buy and download ebooks directly from Amazon.

By "surf on a Kindle" I assume you mean using the Kindle's built-in "Experimental" web browser to access the internet directly and download books directly from internet sites such as Gutenberg.org, which should be possible without an Amazon account.

Maybe someone getting a new Kindle can actually try and confirm that it is possible to use the web browser prior to registering a device? [I'd hate to have to deregister a Kindle which I have already registered just to check this out]

I confirmed it's *not* possible. Trying to use the experimental browser, even to go to amazon.com, lands back on the registration page. It doesn't even seem to start. -- Greg