Re: [gutvol-d] What happened to the newsletter?
Hello. I am not going to discuss politics here, but I think such an organization described below already exists and PG is already working with them. They are the Internet Archive. They are active in trying to change copyright law and according to them have got some temporary exceptions in a few areas. I could be misunderstanding this but there obviously is a close relationship with PG and IA. Perhaps a group of people from both PG and IA could combine to found their own political organization which would lobby to have copyright laws in general changed. I could see something like that happening one of these days. Also such a group could appeal to arts groups such as NPR, etc. Yes, NPR is in itself not an arts group but they would probably run stories on how the copyright law is hurting the public and that could help. Of course there are also sites like slashdot who have helped carry the PG idea before with various announcements. Finally there are various grants which could be sought to support the lobbying efforts after such an organization is formed. At 05:02 PM 9/14/2005 -0500, you wrote:
What is really needed is to setup a separate organization devoted to the defense and rebuilding of the public domain -- somewhat like the NRA, it would be an "in your face" organization. It would seek the particular IRS non-profit status allowing political lobbying, which is not 501(c)3.
I'm not sure we have the funds to do so. Still, it is a good idea, although it might be easier to simply support a previously established organization who share the same goals, if such a group in fact exists.
Tony Baechler wrote:
someone else wrote (keep attribution!)
Jon Noring wrote:
What is really needed is to setup a separate organization devoted to the defense and rebuilding of the public domain -- somewhat like the NRA, it would be an "in your face" organization. It would seek the particular IRS non-profit status allowing political lobbying, which is not 501(c)3.
I'm not sure we have the funds to do so. Still, it is a good idea, although it might be easier to simply support a previously established organization who share the same goals, if such a group in fact exists.
Hello. I am not going to discuss politics here, but I think such an organization described below already exists and PG is already working with them. They are the Internet Archive. They are active in trying to change copyright law and according to them have got some temporary exceptions in a few areas. I could be misunderstanding this but there obviously is a close relationship with PG and IA. Perhaps a group of people from both PG and IA could combine to found their own political organization which would lobby to have copyright laws in general changed. I could see something like that happening one of these days. Also such a group could appeal to arts groups such as NPR, etc. Yes, NPR is in itself not an arts group but they would probably run stories on how the copyright law is hurting the public and that could help. Of course there are also sites like slashdot who have helped carry the PG idea before with various announcements. Finally there are various grants which could be sought to support the lobbying efforts after such an organization is formed.
The point I was trying to make earlier is that such organizations, like the Internet Archive, lack a powerbase of a large number of people. This does not mean such organizations are ineffective, but when one looks at probably the most effective lobbying organization, and one which can take on the entire Democratic party apparatus in Congress and oftentimes wins, is the National Rifle Association. NRA's power base significantly, if not entirely, comes from its private membership, and not big $$$ donors (which would primarily be gun and sports companies, and maybe a few wealthy donors who believe in the NRA's cause.) And when something comes up needing the members to participate, NRA asks them to contact their congresscritter, and they do -- IN HUGE NUMBERS. It is very effective. The NRA is feared because it has *huge* numbers of motivated members, not because it has a lot of money. The Internet Archive, on the other hand, does not have a huge membership (it's not geared as a membership driven organization anyway) so if IA sends out a plea for people to contact their congresscritters on some topic, not many will. Very few will even hear the plea unless they are spammed with unsolicited email or annoying popups or banner ads. Member-driven organizations, on the other hand, have established direct lines of communication with the willing members. There are two groups of people (with a lot of overlap) that are very large, and if they are organized properly, will carry a lot of clout. One group are personal computer users, which comprise maybe ~200 million people in the U.S. The other group are digitial media users, those who purchase various types of digital and electronic media (audio CDs, DVDs, etc.) I'm not sure how big this group is, but it no doubt is in the many 10s of millions in the U.S. So we have two conceivable organizations: PCUA: Personal Computer Users Association DMUA: Digital Media Users Association We could combine them into one group as well (no name to suggest). The idea is to make it worthwhile for people who use computers and/or buy digital media to join the organization. They would get perks of various types. After all, people join AAA to get free maps and roadside service, and AAA also does some political lobbying, so I recall. NRA members probably get some perks, too (like the magazine and maybe some discounts here and there (like discounts on hotels and car rental, just guessing.) The key is to organize the Association, find willing commercial sponsors who see it in their interest to provide "perks" to the members, and then build the membership. Then over time that membership will be activated to be a potent force working for their interests, which will be for unencumbered technology and unencumbered digital media. It will also spill over into the copyright arena as well (the leadership of the organization will take positions on copyright terms as well.) Jon Noring
--- Jon Noring <jon@noring.name> wrote:
The idea is to make it worthwhile for people who use computers and/or buy digital media to join the organization. They would get perks of various types. After all, people join AAA to get free maps and roadside service, and AAA also does some political lobbying, so I recall.
By "some" read "a lot." I suggest people consider the Better World Club (http://www.betterworldclub.com/) if they aren't pro-auto (note that I don't say "if they are anti-car.") Anyhow, perhaps this is a conversation you should be having with the EFF? __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com
Jon Niehof wrote:
Jon Noring wrote:
The idea is to make it worthwhile for people who use computers and/or buy digital media to join the organization. They would get perks of various types. After all, people join AAA to get free maps and roadside service, and AAA also does some political lobbying, so I recall.
By "some" read "a lot." I suggest people consider the Better World Club (http://www.betterworldclub.com/) if they aren't pro-auto (note that I don't say "if they are anti-car.")
<laugh/> Well, lots of people don't like the NRA's political agenda either, but one has to give them credit for their political prowess. So used them as the important example.
Anyhow, perhaps this is a conversation you should be having with the EFF?
Yep. I might write up a blog item on this and post it to TeleRead. We'll see. In the meanwhile, back to PG discussion... Jon (p.s. to Jon Niehof -- what is the current status of K.S.?)
Jon Noring wrote:
... the most effective lobbying organization, ... is the National Rifle Association.
The Internet Archive, on the other hand, does not have a huge membership ...
An archetypal "Noring". You are comparing a populistic association that pushes some people's hot buttons with an association that requires from their members a considerable re-evaluation of the economic system they live in (verging on communist agitation).
There are two groups of people (with a lot of overlap) that are very large, and if they are organized properly, will carry a lot of clout. One group are personal computer users, which comprise maybe ~200 million people in the U.S.
95% of whom don't know better than paying and giving up their rights for using inferior software. (Or are in the habit of pirating their software, in which case they don't care about rights either.)
The other group are digitial media users, those who purchase various types of digital and electronic media (audio CDs, DVDs, etc.) I'm not sure how big this group is, but it no doubt is in the many 10s of millions in the U.S.
How many of these listen to, say Charlie Parker, and would profit by a reduction of copyright duration?
The idea is to make it worthwhile for people who use computers and/or buy digital media to join the organization. They would get perks of various types.
Like the PG newsletter? -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org
participants (4)
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Jon Niehof -
Jon Noring -
Marcello Perathoner -
Tony Baechler