james- good job on the feedback. my replies are appended. you now have some new .html versions to preview... here's the full version:
and a version which scrunches ordinary paragraphs:
the latter version makes it much easier for you to check the paragraphs with some kind of "special" formatting... the formatting is now close enough for you to finish off. the next step will be to do a global correction of names. in that regard, you might wanna do a quick look at this:
these are the bulk of the words that "failed" spellcheck. as is usually the case, the ones with an initial cap are almost exclusively names, and most of 'em are correct. i'll give you another version of this list later that tells us with far greater certainly which of them are likely right... the words that are listed in lowercase, at the bottom, are more likely to be scanning errors, as you can see, while there's also a mix of british spelling and words specific to this particular book, which is also typical... once we add the appropriate words to the dictionary, you'll do a focused correction of the remaining terms, after which there'll be very few words that get flagged while you're doing your page-by-page read-through, which will enable you to focus on punctuation glitches. i've got some other stuff brewing today, but i'll try to get to those names as soon as i can. in the meantime, if you're antsy to do some work, do more family trees... *** al said:
Can't help you with Bowerbird. To borrow a phrase, "you've made your bed, now..." <g>
i guess i must have missed the part where al offered to help you on this book, james. maybe he said that he'd re-do the o.c.r. for you, using abby finereader? yeah, i must have missed that... :+) -bowerbird
Page 1 color-coded text should be a single blockquote.
who is being quoted? no, those are simple paragraphs. you can decide if you want them to have just an indent -- which means only the first line will be indented -- or whether you want the left-margin to be adjusted, in cases where reflow causes the first line to be split. but it would be "tag abuse" to call these "a blockquote".
Page 11 color-coded text could be a blockquote.
again, who is being quoted? this probably should be a list. but i'd be inclined to mark it up as a plain old paragraph... ok, no, i take it back, let's just call it a list. that's what it is.
Page 13 blockquote for the first colored section
nope again on the blockquote. once again, this is a list...
pre for the family tree below it.
all the family trees will be tagged as "pre", no question...
Page 15 should be blockquotes.
just indented paragraphs, as far as i can see...
Page 21 pre tag, I guess. I'd probably make an HTML table for this myself, but I don't see how you could do that automatically.
i did this table for you. if you look at it in a monospaced font, you'll see it all lines up. however, it's not necessary to do that. a space in column 1 and the vertical-bar in column 2 signify a table in z.m.l. vertical-bars also demarcate your columns. these vertical-bars need to have a space on either side of 'em. (except the rightmost one does not need a space to its right.) right now, i'm just marking all the tables with a "pre" tag, but in a future iteration, the software will make real .html tables.
Page 25-6 block quotes. This is really a multi-level outline so if I was doing it by hand I'd use nested block quotes.
i'll have to dig out my sample code for multi-level outlines. but for now, i'll just leave all these as ordinary paragraphs.
Page 30 top one block quoted section.
it's a list.
Page 30 bottom - 31 I'd probably reformat (using words instead of ") so it worked as a blockquote.
i did it as a table.
I'd rework the formulas so they could be read in a proportional font and still make sense. Example: 1 Manvantara = 12,000 x 1,000 / 14 = 857,142 6/7 Deva years.
great idea. i'll let you do that.
Page 46 is a footnote.
is that the only footnote in the book? if so, i'd just leave it as is.
You seem to be double-spacing my family tree tables.
i probably forgot to take out the "br" tags in a "pre" paragraph.
We had also talked about doing both illustrations from the book *and* ASCII art to represent family tree tables. Does light markup work in that scenario?
make the illustration, and then pull it in. see the example on page 11 to figure out how to have an illustration shown.
Page 82 will eventually be an HTML table.
i did it as a table. i chopped it in half for you.
Bowerbird, As far as blockquotes are concerned, while I agree that using them for things that are not actually quotes could qualify as tag abuse, it is one of the tags that the Kindle understands and <span> tags with margins are not. I suppose that some of these places where I'm using blockquotes could be replaced with bulleted lists. That's not what the original book has, but it is pretty close to the intent of all those lists in the book. I'm coming around to the idea that we don't necessarily have to duplicate the look of the original pages, and the page layout on these pages is nothing worth preserving. So maybe if I put asterisks at the beginning of each line in these lists you could make them a bulleted list? I don't think there is any poetry in this book but what seems to work acceptably on the Kindle is to use a blockquote to set off the poem and use 's for indenting of individual lines. Or just use 's without the blockquote. You don't get that hanging indent that printed books have, but the Kindle doesn't know from hanging indents. I'll get back to you on the rest. James Simmons On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 5:52 PM, <Bowerbird@aol.com> wrote:
james-
good job on the feedback. my replies are appended.
you now have some new .html versions to preview...
here's the full version:
and a version which scrunches ordinary paragraphs:
the latter version makes it much easier for you to check the paragraphs with some kind of "special" formatting...
the formatting is now close enough for you to finish off.
the next step will be to do a global correction of names.
in that regard, you might wanna do a quick look at this:
these are the bulk of the words that "failed" spellcheck.
as is usually the case, the ones with an initial cap are almost exclusively names, and most of 'em are correct. i'll give you another version of this list later that tells us with far greater certainly which of them are likely right...
the words that are listed in lowercase, at the bottom, are more likely to be scanning errors, as you can see, while there's also a mix of british spelling and words specific to this particular book, which is also typical...
once we add the appropriate words to the dictionary, you'll do a focused correction of the remaining terms, after which there'll be very few words that get flagged while you're doing your page-by-page read-through, which will enable you to focus on punctuation glitches.
i've got some other stuff brewing today, but i'll try to get to those names as soon as i can. in the meantime, if you're antsy to do some work, do more family trees...
***
al said:
Can't help you with Bowerbird. To borrow a phrase, "you've made your bed, now..." <g>
i guess i must have missed the part where al offered to help you on this book, james. maybe he said that he'd re-do the o.c.r. for you, using abby finereader? yeah, i must have missed that... :+)
-bowerbird
Page 1 color-coded text should be a single blockquote.
who is being quoted? no, those are simple paragraphs. you can decide if you want them to have just an indent -- which means only the first line will be indented -- or whether you want the left-margin to be adjusted, in cases where reflow causes the first line to be split. but it would be "tag abuse" to call these "a blockquote".
Page 11 color-coded text could be a blockquote.
again, who is being quoted? this probably should be a list. but i'd be inclined to mark it up as a plain old paragraph... ok, no, i take it back, let's just call it a list. that's what it is.
Page 13 blockquote for the first colored section
nope again on the blockquote. once again, this is a list...
pre for the family tree below it.
all the family trees will be tagged as "pre", no question...
Page 15 should be blockquotes.
just indented paragraphs, as far as i can see...
Page 21 pre tag, I guess. I'd probably make an HTML table for this myself, but I don't see how you could do that automatically.
i did this table for you. if you look at it in a monospaced font, you'll see it all lines up. however, it's not necessary to do that.
a space in column 1 and the vertical-bar in column 2 signify a table in z.m.l. vertical-bars also demarcate your columns. these vertical-bars need to have a space on either side of 'em. (except the rightmost one does not need a space to its right.)
right now, i'm just marking all the tables with a "pre" tag, but in a future iteration, the software will make real .html tables.
Page 25-6 block quotes. This is really a multi-level outline so if I was doing it by hand I'd use nested block quotes.
i'll have to dig out my sample code for multi-level outlines.
but for now, i'll just leave all these as ordinary paragraphs.
Page 30 top one block quoted section.
it's a list.
Page 30 bottom - 31 I'd probably reformat (using words instead of ") so it worked as a blockquote.
i did it as a table.
I'd rework the formulas so they could be read in a proportional font and still make sense. Example: 1 Manvantara = 12,000 x 1,000 / 14 = 857,142 6/7 Deva years.
great idea. i'll let you do that.
Page 46 is a footnote.
is that the only footnote in the book? if so, i'd just leave it as is.
You seem to be double-spacing my family tree tables.
i probably forgot to take out the "br" tags in a "pre" paragraph.
We had also talked about doing both illustrations from the book *and* ASCII art to represent family tree tables. Does light markup work in that scenario?
make the illustration, and then pull it in. see the example on page 11 to figure out how to have an illustration shown.
Page 82 will eventually be an HTML table.
i did it as a table. i chopped it in half for you.
_______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/mailman/listinfo/gutvol-d
James Simmons wrote:
I don't think there is any poetry in this book but what seems to work acceptably on the Kindle is to use a blockquote to set off the poem and use 's for indenting of individual lines. Or just use 's without the blockquote. You don't get that hanging indent that printed books have, but the Kindle doesn't know from hanging indents.
The Kindle will quite happily do hanging indents; it just isn't possible to get at them by letting Kindlegen work on your HTML+CSS. For example, take a look at http://books.hisdeedsaredust.com/test/aa-sample.mobi Go to location 128, the paragraph beginning "Copy of a letter from Christopher ..." The first line of this paragraph is indented 1em from the left, and subsequent lines are indented 3em.
On Wed, January 18, 2012 8:14 am, James Simmons wrote:
As far as blockquotes are concerned, while I agree that using them for things that are not actually quotes could qualify as tag abuse, it is one of the tags that the Kindle understands and <span> tags with margins are not.
I tend to be ambivalent about "tag abuse" for block quotes. In most cases, block-indented text really /is/ a quote, as it represents a source other than the primary voice of the author. Other times "it just works," so I do it anyway, and it's nowhere near as bad as using <p> for non-paragraphs. I do think that whenever anyone is committing practical tag abuse (because there are no other good options) a 'class' attribute should be added to indicate "just kidding, I'm doing this for display only"; that way it can be programmatically removed later when it is no longer needed. In any event, <blockquote> is a block tag so you would want to replace it with <div>, not a series of spans. If you're concerned about display on the pre-Fire Kindles, you might want to try <div class="notaquote" style="margin-left:2em">. KindleGen /might/ rewrite this to something the old Kindle's can use, but in any case by using a <div> your intent of indicating "a block of text that is somehow distinct from other blocks of text" should be satisfied, and that intent should be apparent on all devices, even old Kindles.
Bowerbird, Forget what I said about bulleted lists. These lists are pretty clearly just indented paragraphs. The Kindle and Nook indent the first line of every paragraph by default, so we're good. I'm seeing a lot of words with backslashes in the middle of them. I'm guessing the backslashes represent soft hyphens. In the family trees the names of women are italicized. I've marked them up that way but your HTML does not italicize them. When you remove the underscores the alignment of the trees will be thrown out of whack too. Maybe we need a special rule that when underscores occur in a <pre> section they are replaced with spaces rather than removed. I'm still kind of puzzled about how we're going to deal with page breaks (and numbers) in the final output. You list of words and names have no accents or diacritical marks, and so does the HTML. Even with global search and replace that's not going to be fun to put back. James Simmons On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 5:52 PM, <Bowerbird@aol.com> wrote:
james-
good job on the feedback. my replies are appended.
you now have some new .html versions to preview...
here's the full version:
and a version which scrunches ordinary paragraphs:
the latter version makes it much easier for you to check the paragraphs with some kind of "special" formatting...
the formatting is now close enough for you to finish off.
the next step will be to do a global correction of names.
in that regard, you might wanna do a quick look at this:
these are the bulk of the words that "failed" spellcheck.
as is usually the case, the ones with an initial cap are almost exclusively names, and most of 'em are correct. i'll give you another version of this list later that tells us with far greater certainly which of them are likely right...
the words that are listed in lowercase, at the bottom, are more likely to be scanning errors, as you can see, while there's also a mix of british spelling and words specific to this particular book, which is also typical...
once we add the appropriate words to the dictionary, you'll do a focused correction of the remaining terms, after which there'll be very few words that get flagged while you're doing your page-by-page read-through, which will enable you to focus on punctuation glitches.
i've got some other stuff brewing today, but i'll try to get to those names as soon as i can. in the meantime, if you're antsy to do some work, do more family trees...
***
al said:
Can't help you with Bowerbird. To borrow a phrase, "you've made your bed, now..." <g>
i guess i must have missed the part where al offered to help you on this book, james. maybe he said that he'd re-do the o.c.r. for you, using abby finereader? yeah, i must have missed that... :+)
-bowerbird
Page 1 color-coded text should be a single blockquote.
who is being quoted? no, those are simple paragraphs. you can decide if you want them to have just an indent -- which means only the first line will be indented -- or whether you want the left-margin to be adjusted, in cases where reflow causes the first line to be split. but it would be "tag abuse" to call these "a blockquote".
Page 11 color-coded text could be a blockquote.
again, who is being quoted? this probably should be a list. but i'd be inclined to mark it up as a plain old paragraph... ok, no, i take it back, let's just call it a list. that's what it is.
Page 13 blockquote for the first colored section
nope again on the blockquote. once again, this is a list...
pre for the family tree below it.
all the family trees will be tagged as "pre", no question...
Page 15 should be blockquotes.
just indented paragraphs, as far as i can see...
Page 21 pre tag, I guess. I'd probably make an HTML table for this myself, but I don't see how you could do that automatically.
i did this table for you. if you look at it in a monospaced font, you'll see it all lines up. however, it's not necessary to do that.
a space in column 1 and the vertical-bar in column 2 signify a table in z.m.l. vertical-bars also demarcate your columns. these vertical-bars need to have a space on either side of 'em. (except the rightmost one does not need a space to its right.)
right now, i'm just marking all the tables with a "pre" tag, but in a future iteration, the software will make real .html tables.
Page 25-6 block quotes. This is really a multi-level outline so if I was doing it by hand I'd use nested block quotes.
i'll have to dig out my sample code for multi-level outlines.
but for now, i'll just leave all these as ordinary paragraphs.
Page 30 top one block quoted section.
it's a list.
Page 30 bottom - 31 I'd probably reformat (using words instead of ") so it worked as a blockquote.
i did it as a table.
I'd rework the formulas so they could be read in a proportional font and still make sense. Example: 1 Manvantara = 12,000 x 1,000 / 14 = 857,142 6/7 Deva years.
great idea. i'll let you do that.
Page 46 is a footnote.
is that the only footnote in the book? if so, i'd just leave it as is.
You seem to be double-spacing my family tree tables.
i probably forgot to take out the "br" tags in a "pre" paragraph.
We had also talked about doing both illustrations from the book *and* ASCII art to represent family tree tables. Does light markup work in that scenario?
make the illustration, and then pull it in. see the example on page 11 to figure out how to have an illustration shown.
Page 82 will eventually be an HTML table.
i did it as a table. i chopped it in half for you.
_______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/mailman/listinfo/gutvol-d
On Wed, January 18, 2012 9:12 am, James Simmons wrote:
I'm still kind of puzzled about how we're going to deal with page breaks (and numbers) in the final output.
Am I correct in assuming that the final output will be HTML? If so, I see two options: 1. Place an anchor at each page break, e.g.: <a id="pg0027" title="27"></a> (I don't like self-closing anchor tags because many user agents don't understand them). This will provide a mark inside the file that will be invisible to the user, but can be used for navigational purposes, as well as automated refactoring. 2. Use a page-break <span>, e.g.: <span id="pg0027" class="page-break">27</span> This case is a little more intrusive, but on a CSS-enabled user agent the page numbers can still be suppressed by adding a CSS rule to hide page numbers, e.g.: span.page-break { display:none } It also allows fancy CSS to move page numbers into the margin. I'm less happy with this solution because I have a rule of thumb that says that everyone should author HTML in such a way that the rendering should be acceptable (not necessarily ideal) on a user agent that doesn't understand CSS. HTH Lee
Lee, My opinion is that in this book page numbers serve no useful purpose. I was planning to get rid of them entirely and joining paragraphs that are split across pages. I just wanted to be certain that Bowerbird had some plan to do that. James Simmons On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 11:06 AM, Lee Passey <lee@novomail.net> wrote:
On Wed, January 18, 2012 9:12 am, James Simmons wrote:
I'm still kind of puzzled about how we're going to deal with page breaks (and numbers) in the final output.
Am I correct in assuming that the final output will be HTML? If so, I see two options:
1. Place an anchor at each page break, e.g.:
<a id="pg0027" title="27"></a>
(I don't like self-closing anchor tags because many user agents don't understand them). This will provide a mark inside the file that will be invisible to the user, but can be used for navigational purposes, as well as automated refactoring.
2. Use a page-break <span>, e.g.:
<span id="pg0027" class="page-break">27</span>
This case is a little more intrusive, but on a CSS-enabled user agent the page numbers can still be suppressed by adding a CSS rule to hide page numbers, e.g.:
span.page-break { display:none }
It also allows fancy CSS to move page numbers into the margin. I'm less happy with this solution because I have a rule of thumb that says that everyone should author HTML in such a way that the rendering should be acceptable (not necessarily ideal) on a user agent that doesn't understand CSS.
HTH Lee
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participants (4)
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Bowerbird＠aol.com -
James Simmons -
Lee Passey -
Paul Flo Williams