The difference in opinion in legal terms won't solve the problem, which is actually two problems: How do you stop this harvesting for profit, and should a PG volunteer continue to donate their efforts only to line harvesters pockets? Selling public domain eBooks for Kindle on Amazon (and all other eBook sellers) is easy. That's why harvesters do it. A simple solution for PG, which already has the files formated, is to can beat the harvesters at their own game. Yes, it will profit Amazon, but it will profit PG even more in name recognition, popularity, ethics and dollars. Just the news release that PG is going to do this would draw readers, along with donations, to the site. I'm a business person, who operated on two basic facts, the customer is always right, and three nickels are better than a dime. (I comfortably retired 17 years ago at age 39.) Customers want the best value and volunteers want to make a real difference. Give us that chance. Linda Everhart codmolly@embarqmail.com
That is the most practical response to the situation that I have seen. The rest of the excahnges have been 90% self-indulgent inbox clutter. I am not inclined to get into this, but I could well Imagine volunteer contributors and proofers asking themselves why they are bothering with hard work just to support commercial interests for free. That is the greatest threat, not the fact that PG could clean up big if we got paid. Linda's suggestion is one option. Another that I think has been mooted and quashed is to put it to the harvesters that they are killing the layers of golden eggs and risking some bad publicity. Of course a combination might be the best idea. FWIW On 2010/12/03 05:34 AM, Linda Everhart wrote:
The difference in opinion in legal terms won't solve the problem, which is actually two problems: How do you stop this harvesting for profit, and should a PG volunteer continue to donate their efforts only to line harvesters pockets?
Selling public domain eBooks for Kindle on Amazon (and all other eBook sellers) is easy. That's why harvesters do it. A simple solution for PG, which already has the files formated, is to can beat the harvesters at their own game.
Yes, it will profit Amazon, but it will profit PG even more in name recognition, popularity, ethics and dollars. Just the news release that PG is going to do this would draw readers, along with donations, to the site.
I'm a business person, who operated on two basic facts, the customer is always right, and three nickels are better than a dime. (I comfortably retired 17 years ago at age 39.)
Customers want the best value and volunteers want to make a real difference. Give us that chance.
Linda Everhart codmolly@embarqmail.com
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On 12/3/10 8:13 AM, Jon Richfield wrote:
That is the most practical response to the situation that I have seen. The rest of the excahnges have been 90% self-indulgent inbox clutter. I am not inclined to get into this, but I could well Imagine volunteer contributors and proofers asking themselves why they are bothering with hard work just to support commercial interests for free. That is the greatest threat, not the fact that PG could clean up big if we got paid.
As a small-time volunteer: I don't care. The public domain is just that: public. If anyone manages to make a mint out of it, more power to them. At worst it only helps in the everlasting debate about the 'value' of the public domain. Regards, Walter
On 12/03/2010 04:34 AM, Linda Everhart wrote:
The difference in opinion in legal terms won't solve the problem, which is actually two problems: How do you stop this harvesting for profit,
You don't. It is legal. And it is ethical. The PG license *requires* them to remove all mention of PG. And they *do* remove all mention to PG. If there's anybody to blame it is PG, because it uses a license that forbids people from acknowledging the origin of the texts. Talk about a suicidal business model.
and should a PG volunteer continue to donate their efforts only to line harvesters pockets?
That's for the volunteer to decide.
Selling public domain eBooks for Kindle on Amazon (and all other eBook sellers) is easy. That's why harvesters do it. A simple solution for PG, which already has the files formated, is to can beat the harvesters at their own game.
If I understand correctly, you are proposing to sell PG texts on Amazon? It is not so easy as it sounds, because: Those people who do, don't take the Kindle files hosted at PG and sell them on Amazon. They (mostly) take the plain text versions and reformat them into Kindle versions. They actually *add value* by reformatting them and making them available an Amazon, and thus it *is ethical* to put a price tag on it. PG cannot bulk dump their Kindle files onto Amazon because they are not of sufficient quality. And I specifically blame: - PG for failing to introduce a master format that would have made bulk conversion of the whole archive to the Kindle a breeze. - DP for producing overly complex rococo HTML markup that does not degrade gracefully into the very simple HTML that is at the core of the Kindle format. As of now, the majority of PG texts need a major rework to look good enough to be sold.
Customers want the best value and volunteers want to make a real difference. Give us that chance.
Every proposal that has ever been made to improve the usability of the PG archive has been met with the standard "we'll provide servers for you"-answer and no other reaction whatsoever. PG wants to obsolete. The refusal of the PG `leaders´ to lead anywhere has caused a decade-long stagnation. Small wonder that younger and nimbler people are now making the money we could be making. Its like stealing Grandpa's tobacco pouch while he's asleep on the porch. -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org
participants (4)
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Jon Richfield -
Linda Everhart -
Marcello Perathoner -
Walter van Holst