ebook reader market share report
http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/digital/devices/article/54705-ki ndle-share-of-e-book-reading-at-55.html Note that this report says that only 6% of readers use their computers to read ebooks. Another 6% use an iPhone or a smart phone.
On Tuesday, 11th December 2012 at 22:31:32 (GMT -0800), James Adcock wrote:
http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/digital/devices/article/54705-ki...
Note that this report says that only 6% of readers use their computers to read ebooks. Another 6% use an iPhone or a smart phone.
This is a good example why Mark Twain was right when he said that there are 3 kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. I read e-books on hardware Kindles, *and* on the iPad, *and* on the iPhone. So where does that put me in the table? Nowhere. I find it very hard to believe that only 6% of people read e-books on smartphones nowadays. The actual figure, I suspect, is much higher -- it's just that if the survey only gave them one option to choose as their answer, most respondents likely stated the device that they use for reading e-books *most frequently* (but not exclusively). -- Yours, Alex. www.aboq.org [processed by "The Bat!", Version 4.2.44.2]
If you're going to trash it, you might want to at least check the available information. http://www.bowker.com/en-US/aboutus/press_room/2012/pr_11142012.shtml On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 10:40 PM, <a@aboq.org> wrote:
On Tuesday, 11th December 2012 at 22:31:32 (GMT -0800), James Adcock wrote:
http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/digital/devices/article/54705-ki...
Note that this report says that only 6% of readers use their computers to read ebooks. Another 6% use an iPhone or a smart phone.
This is a good example why Mark Twain was right when he said that there are 3 kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics.
I read e-books on hardware Kindles, *and* on the iPad, *and* on the iPhone. So where does that put me in the table? Nowhere. I find it very hard to believe that only 6% of people read e-books on smartphones nowadays. The actual figure, I suspect, is much higher -- it's just that if the survey only gave them one option to choose as their answer, most respondents likely stated the device that they use for reading e-books *most frequently* (but not exclusively).
-- Yours, Alex. www.aboq.org
[processed by "The Bat!", Version 4.2.44.2]
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On 12/11/2012 11:40 PM, a@aboq.org wrote:
On Tuesday, 11th December 2012 at 22:31:32 (GMT -0800), James Adcock wrote:
http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/digital/devices/article/54705-ki...
Note that this report says that only 6% of readers use their computers to read ebooks. Another 6% use an iPhone or a smart phone.
This is a good example why Mark Twain was right when he said that there are 3 kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics.
And this report is a good example of why this is true, and why knowing the methodology and raw data is A Good Thing. For example, the summary at bowker.com also states that "The ... Bowker-powered survey shows that tablets have risen by about 25 percent over the past year as the first choice for respondents’ e-reading device, while dedicated e-readers have fallen by the same amount." Wow, that must mean that Kindle's share has actually fallen substantially. Well, not actually. The Kindle Fire is grouped with "tablets" and not "dedicated e-readers." And neither the Bowker summary nor the PW rehash gives actual absolute numbers. It may be that non-Apple/Amazon/B&N tablets are also growing in popularity, but their percentages of the whole are skewed by the Amazon marketing juggernaut. And the preferred file format for these various devices has been totally ignored. Most interesting to me was the fact that Bowker bases their conclusions on "what is currently happening with e-book ‘Power Buyers.’ Their e-book purchasing and e-reader preferences have proven to be reliable predictors of market trends,” said Angela Bole, BISG’s Deputy Executive Director. In other words, Bowker has not attempted to capture device popularity, or capability, but only the preferences of those people who /buy/ e-books--and who buy lots of them (people who I often derisively label as "having more money than brains"). I can't remember the last time I /bought/ an e-book--it was probably about as long ago as I read anything downloaded from Project Gutenberg. I read e-books voraciously, but if I can't check it out from my library I just don't read it. There are plenty of other things competing for my attention. This is, I think, consistent with Project Gutenberg data favoring the ePub format to the .mobi format; people who buy commercial e-books from major online retailers are not the same people who are downloading e-texts from PG. Different demographics, different levels of sophistication, different conclusions.
On 12/12/2012 07:31 AM, James Adcock wrote:
http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/digital/devices/article/54705-ki ndle-share-of-e-book-reading-at-55.html
Note that this report says that only 6% of readers use their computers to read ebooks. Another 6% use an iPhone or a smart phone.
Figures are worthless without a detailed description of the methodology used to derive them. The epub downloads from PG are nearly twice the mobi downloads. -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org
Figures are worthless without a detailed description of the methodology used to derive them.
Doesn't mean that both PW and PG statistics couldn't be right -- but even you acknowledge that it seems likely that fewer PG users actually read HTML downloads rather than just glance at them to preview whether or not an epub or mobi is worth downloading.
The epub downloads from PG are nearly twice the mobi downloads.
Could that be because the mobis you generate are still generally more defective than the epubs?
On 12/14/2012 07:11 AM, James Adcock wrote:
Figures are worthless without a detailed description of the methodology used to derive them.
Doesn't mean that both PW and PG statistics couldn't be right -- but even you acknowledge that it seems likely that fewer PG users actually read HTML downloads rather than just glance at them to preview whether or not an epub or mobi is worth downloading.
But it is quite improbable that anybody would download the epub to preview the Kindle.
The epub downloads from PG are nearly twice the mobi downloads.
Could that be because the mobis you generate are still generally more defective than the epubs?
The KF8 format is quite as capable as epub, in fact it *is* epub, only wrapped in a palm database instead of a zip file. The Kindle reader is also quite capable, in fact it is Adobe DE branded as Kindle. In fact Amazon could have switched to epub instead of botching KF8, but chose to be deliberatley incompatible to the rest of us. It could also be that Kindle files are twice the size as epubs, or that is is practically impossible to get free files on the Kindle Fire. -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org
"Marcello" == Marcello Perathoner <marcello@perathoner.de> writes:
>>> The epub downloads from PG are nearly twice the mobi >>> downloads. >> Could that be because the mobis you generate are still >> generally more defective than the epubs? Marcello> The KF8 format is quite as capable as epub, in fact it Marcello> *is* epub, only wrapped in a palm database instead of a Marcello> zip file. The Kindle reader is also quite capable, in Marcello> fact it is Adobe DE branded as Kindle. In fact Amazon Marcello> could have switched to epub instead of botching KF8, but Marcello> chose to be deliberatley incompatible to the rest of us. Marcello> It could also be that Kindle files are twice the size as Marcello> epubs, or that is is practically impossible to get free Marcello> files on the Kindle Fire. Are the current mobi at PG in KF8 format? (not only the current ones, also the legacy ones) If so, is the PG epub in KF8 equivalent to PG epub, or equivalent to the old dumbed-down mobi? And even if this is true, many PG kindle users might remember that PG mobi was inferior to PG epub. In any case, PG users and PG books are a different universe than amazon customers and amazon books, so completely different statistics are to be expected. Carlo
On 12/14/2012 09:47 AM, Carlo Traverso wrote:
"Marcello" == Marcello Perathoner<marcello@perathoner.de> writes:
>>> The epub downloads from PG are nearly twice the mobi >>> downloads. >> Could that be because the mobis you generate are still >> generally more defective than the epubs?
Marcello> The KF8 format is quite as capable as epub, in fact it Marcello> *is* epub, only wrapped in a palm database instead of a Marcello> zip file. The Kindle reader is also quite capable, in Marcello> fact it is Adobe DE branded as Kindle. In fact Amazon Marcello> could have switched to epub instead of botching KF8, but Marcello> chose to be deliberatley incompatible to the rest of us.
Marcello> It could also be that Kindle files are twice the size as Marcello> epubs, or that is is practically impossible to get free Marcello> files on the Kindle Fire.
Are the current mobi at PG in KF8 format? (not only the current ones, also the legacy ones) If so, is the PG epub in KF8 equivalent to PG epub, or equivalent to the old dumbed-down mobi?
We currently have a mix of old and new. The new files actually are a mobi fork and a KF8 fork jumbled together. Amazon introduced the KF8 fork of Kindle files on the sly. Kindlegen was producing KF8 files way before Amazon announced the new format. PG always used kindlegen to produce Kindle files out of epub. So we can say PG was producing KF8 files even before Amazon announced them. I'd have to research which version of kindlegen introduced the feature. PG always used a fairly recent version of kindlegen. You can easily tell by the file size: If the Kindle file is huge compared to the epub file, then it contains a KF8 fork. -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org
"Marcello" == Marcello Perathoner <marcello@perathoner.de> writes:
Marcello> We currently have a mix of old and new. The new files Marcello> actually are a mobi fork and a KF8 fork jumbled Marcello> together. This induces another question: I suppose that derived formats from RST are not recomputed when new versions of epubmaker are put into production. Indeed, new versions of epubmaker do not seem to be completely backward-compatible. Are new versions tested with respect to the legacy RST files, to see if the master files are still OK? Carlo
On 12/14/2012 11:03 AM, Carlo Traverso wrote:
"Marcello" == Marcello Perathoner<marcello@perathoner.de> writes:
Marcello> We currently have a mix of old and new. The new files Marcello> actually are a mobi fork and a KF8 fork jumbled Marcello> together.
This induces another question: I suppose that derived formats from RST are not recomputed when new versions of epubmaker are put into production. Indeed, new versions of epubmaker do not seem to be completely backward-compatible. Are new versions tested with respect to the legacy RST files, to see if the master files are still OK?
That's a problem we still have to solve. I'm trying to bring the WWers over to a source-repository based workflow, .... but its hard to change a WWers way. I can re-do all RST files, so they would all be up-to-date with the newest kindlegen. You'll have to check the files for errors. -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org
Amazon introduced the KF8 fork of Kindle files on the sly. Kindlegen was
producing KF8 files way before Amazon announced the new format. PG always used kindlegen to produce Kindle files out of epub. So we can say PG was producing KF8 files even before Amazon announced them. Just to remind people where "Amazon Kindle" is nowadays, K1, [Kindle first generation] K2, and DX are still looking for the old "super dumb" Mobi7 format, which basically tried to follow IE5 "conventions", if I remember right. Whereas all the newer Kindles now understand Mobi8 [KF8] which Marcello is saying is basically ADE. The older Kindles often pick up the paragraph problem where many "html" submitters to PG implement "belt, suspenders, and suspenders" -- setting top margin, bottom margin, and text indent [where only one of three really makes sense] resulting in the IE5 legacy of NOT merging top and bottom margins. The newer Kindles follow more recent "html" convention of merging top and bottom margins, but in turn tend to pick up more of the problems where "html" submitters made poor choices of left and right document margins selections on one or more sections of their books. These are typically not "epub" nor "mobi" problems but rather errors in coding the submitted "html" which one can easily see by changing the window size on one's html browser.
Amazon could have switched to epub instead of botching KF8, but chose to be deliberatley incompatible to the rest of us.
The DRM epub world is incompatible with itself, so presumably Amazon saw this issue as a "no difference from everyone else." It is strange that you self-identify as being "epub" rather than "PG."
It could also be that Kindle files are twice the size as epubs, or that is is practically impossible to get free files on the Kindle Fire.
The Kindle files are twice the size because PG chooses to implement them that way. It is trivial to get free files on the Kindle Fire, as I have already explained to you, by using the Amazon "Send to Kindle" applet on your computer. While you may find some theoretical advantages to the Google Nexus 7, in practice Google isn't selling it anymore, so those advantages must remain purely theoretical.
While you may find some theoretical advantages to the Google Nexus 7, in practice Google isn't selling it anymore, so those advantages must remain purely theoretical. Google certainly seems to be selling Nexus 7, James. The 16GB model is
On 12/14/2012 2:05 PM, James Adcock wrote: listed as sold out, but they're still offering the 32GB model and the 32GB + mobile data model with 3-5 day delivery quoted. -- Walt
On 12/14/2012 08:05 PM, James Adcock wrote:
The Kindle files are twice the size because PG chooses to implement them that way.
That's what kindlegen outputs. I don't touch kindlegen's output in any way.
It is trivial to get free files on the Kindle Fire, as I have already explained to you, by using the Amazon "Send to Kindle" applet on your computer.
That's ridiculous. What would you say about a car you cannot drive to the filling station but instead requires you to buy a pickup truck to bring some gas cans back to the car? Trivial eh?
While you may find some theoretical advantages to the Google Nexus 7, in practice Google isn't selling it anymore, so those advantages must remain purely theoretical.
Obviously you still say things without doing any research. https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=nexus_7_16gb Just click "add to cart". For the same price as a Kindle you get a Nexus 7 plus a charger minus the stupid Amazon restrictions. Regards -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org
The Kindle files are twice the size because PG chooses to implement them that way.
That's what kindlegen outputs. I don't touch kindlegen's output in any way.
You are choosing to run kindlegen, and distribute mobi files, without compression, but the epub files are being distributed with compression. You can't pretend to tell me you haven't even read the kindlegen documentation.
It is trivial to get free files on the Kindle Fire, as I have already explained to you, by using the Amazon "Send to Kindle" applet on your computer.
That's ridiculous. What would you say about a car you cannot drive to the filling station but instead requires you to buy a pickup truck to bring some gas cans back to the car? Trivial eh?
I would say that if you actually tried "Send to Kindle" you would find it is in fact "trivial" to use, and an attractive approach to getting free books on your ebook reader, and no more requires driving to the gas station than filling up my car, which is electric, so that both my Kindle and my car are "trivial" to load up at home, and neither requires your [confused, hypothetical] trip to the filling station. I think you must be confused with Apple devices, which always seem to require a trip through the Apple store.
Obviously you still say things without doing any research.
https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=nexus_7_16gb
I tried this, then, and I try it again now, and it says that this option doesn't exist. So who is saying what? Further, I have tried to see the Nexus 7 in a half dozen stores which carry tons of ebook readers, I ask to see the Nexus 7, and they don't have any. Which might explain the ebook survey numbers -- look under "Nexus 7."
Hi James, Am 15.12.2012 um 01:13 schrieb James Adcock <jimad@msn.com>:
I would say that if you actually tried "Send to Kindle" you would find it is in fact "trivial" to use, and an attractive approach to getting free books on your ebook reader, and no more requires driving to the gas station than filling up my car, which is electric, so that both my Kindle and my car are "trivial" to load up at home, and neither requires your [confused, hypothetical] trip to the filling station. I think you must be confused with Apple devices, which always seem to require a trip through the Apple store.
You DO NOT need the Apple store to get free books onto Apple devices! All you need is iTunes and a sync. Simple as drag and drop. This is also, true of the Kindle app for Apple devices. As well, of other readers. No, internet connection required! regards Keith.
On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 09:50:55 +0100, Keith J. Schultz wrote:
You DO NOT need the Apple store to get free books onto Apple devices! All you need is iTunes and a sync.
That is not true, either. I abhor iTunes and never use it. You don't need iTunes for anything at all, ever since iCloud came out in 2011. You can just click any regular download link in the default browser to get "free" e-books onto your iPad, iPhone, or iPod Touch. They can be EPUB, MOBI, or PDF. You can also email any e-books to yourself and open them that way. Also, there are lots of apps for transferring files onto iOS devices wirelessly, with no Internet connection necessary -- even via Bluetooth. Plus, many iOS e-reader apps include download engines right within the app, some of them offering Project Gutenberg catalogues. One such was my formerly preferred Stanza -- until the Marvin app was released this month, which is even better than Stanza. Stanza and Marvin are so superb in displaying e-books that it's actually worth converting any MOBI books you might have, into EPUB, so that you can enjoy them in Marvin/Stanza, instead of in the Kindle app which offers a reading experience that is distinctly inferior to Marvin/Stanza. (The same also applies to iBooks.) -- Yours, Alex. www.aboq.org [sent by The Bat! 5.2 on MBA via Parallels Desktop]
Hi Alexander, getting a little to OT here, but … Am 17.12.2012 um 10:24 schrieb Alexander Avenarius <a@aboq.org>:
On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 09:50:55 +0100, Keith J. Schultz wrote:
You DO NOT need the Apple store to get free books onto Apple devices! All you need is iTunes and a sync.
That is not true, either. I abhor iTunes and never use it. You don't need iTunes for anything at all, ever since iCloud came out in 2011. iTunes does have it advantages over the cloud. Especially, when you do not have an internet connection, or a slow one. I have had to at times move several Gigs of data, even 10s of GB, but that is a different matter.
You can just click any regular download link in the default browser to get "free" e-books onto your iPad, iPhone, or iPod Touch. They can be EPUB, MOBI, or PDF. You can also email any e-books to yourself and open them that way. Also, there are lots of apps for transferring files onto iOS devices wirelessly, with no Internet connection necessary -- even via Bluetooth.
Plus, many iOS e-reader apps include download engines right within the app, some of them offering Project Gutenberg catalogues. One such was my formerly preferred Stanza -- until the Marvin app was released this month, which is even better than Stanza. Stanza and Marvin are so superb in displaying e-books that it's actually worth converting any MOBI books you might have, into EPUB, so that you can enjoy them in Marvin/Stanza, instead of in the Kindle app which offers a reading experience that is distinctly inferior to Marvin/Stanza. (The same also applies to iBooks.) I will look at Marvin. Thanks for the tip.
season greetings and to all a … Keith.
On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 11:16:38 +0100, Keith J. Schultz wrote:
iTunes does have it advantages over the cloud. Especially, when you do not have an internet connection, or a slow one. I have had to at times move several Gigs of data, even 10s of GB, but that is a different matter.
I forgot to mention my no. 1 favourite method of opening books on iOS (and Android!) devices: from Dropbox or SugarSync. All my Calibre folders are stored in SugarSync, so that all of my e-books are available at any time from any computer or hand-held device. There is, then, never the need to transfer large amounts of books to any single reading device, because why would you do that, when all the books are available in the cloud anyway, on demand... It's been my experience that opening just one book, or even a handful of books, from Dropbox or SugarSync works fine even when the Internet connection is spotty. Now the Marvin app (currently on iPad; iPhone version coming up later) introduced a fabulous feature I have encountered nowhere else so far: with a single tap of your finger, you can export, via email, all of your hightlights and notes for a particular book in an XHTML file. I find this to be the killer feature for Marvin, and the developer implied he would also make it possible to *restore* highlights and notes from a previously exported XHTML file. This would mean I could safely delete any book I've already read from my reading device, knowing that it's possible to re-open it from the cloud at any later point in time, if necessary, along with restoring the highlights and notes, if desired. The closest thing I've seen to Marvin's XHTML export feature is the "MyClippings" file on the hardware Kindles; however, it combines notes from all books into one file, converts everything to plain-text, and it's difficult to export that file from a hardware Kindle device. -- Yours, Alex. www.aboq.org [sent via "The Bat!" 5.2 on MBA via Parallels Desktop]
I have to admit Marvin sounds like a tremendous improvement over the horrible iBooks applet! Hope they bring it to more platforms.
You DO NOT need the Apple store to get free books onto Apple devices! All you need is iTunes....
iTunes IS a store. You have to feed it your credit card number before you are allowed to use it. This is like B&N offering you to read books "for free" when you visit their brick and mortar stores. And if you try to download a PG book onto a Nook nowadays then you get a popup suggesting you should BUY that book! IE they are trying to convert PG "free" downloads into B&N DRM book sales!
Hi James, Am 17.12.2012 um 19:28 schrieb James Adcock <jimad@msn.com>:
You DO NOT need the Apple store to get free books onto Apple devices! All you need is iTunes....
iTunes IS a store. You have to feed it your credit card number before you are allowed to use it. Sorry, you are totally in err on this matter! I you care for advice contact me off list.
regards Keith.
On 12/15/2012 01:13 AM, James Adcock wrote:
The Kindle files are twice the size because PG chooses to implement them that way.
That's what kindlegen outputs. I don't touch kindlegen's output in any way.
You are choosing to run kindlegen, and distribute mobi files, without compression, but the epub files are being distributed with compression. You can't pretend to tell me you haven't even read the kindlegen documentation.
I'm using the "standard DOC compression". The "Kindle huffdic compression" is only slightly better on text-only files. On image-heavy files they are virtually identical. Kindle files will always be twice the size of epubs because they contain one copy of the whole book in mobi format *and* one copy of the whole book in KF8 format.
It is trivial to get free files on the Kindle Fire, as I have already explained to you, by using the Amazon "Send to Kindle" applet on your computer.
That's ridiculous. What would you say about a car you cannot drive to the filling station but instead requires you to buy a pickup truck to bring some gas cans back to the car? Trivial eh?
I would say that if you actually tried "Send to Kindle" you would find it is in fact "trivial" to use, ...
Let us compare the ease of use of the targeted-for-generic-use *Google Nexus 7* with the targeted-as-ebook-reader *Kindle Fire HD*. Let us list the steps involved in actually getting a free ebook from somewhere on the web until the first page opens on your tablet. Let us also differentiate between steps you need to do once vs. steps you need to repeat for each book: Nexus 7: A. Install a free reader app. 1. Use tablet browser to download any epub. (Reader app notices it is an epub download and grabs and opens the book automatically.) 2. Start reading. Kindle Fire: A. Buy a PC. B. Install Kindle software on PC. 1. Get behind your PC. 2. Boot your PC. 3. Use PC browser to download epub. 4. Open Kindle software on PC. 5. Open file you just downloaded. 6. Use "Send to Kindle". 7. Wait for the upload to complete. (Uploads are much slower than downloads on most home internet connections.) 8. Shutdown your PC. 9. Get Kindle Fire. 10. Open "Documents" tab (not "Books" tab). 11. Wait until reader syncs. 12. Start reading. The difference in ease-of-use is colossal. You'd think the Nexus 7 was targeted as ebook reader as it handles ebooks effortlessly. But it isn't so. Ebooks are just one of the many thing you can do with the Nexus 7. OTOH side the Kindle Fire is marketed primarily as ebook reading tablet but provides the worst experience re. free books. It also costs more than the Nexus 7 (€214 vs. €199 for the ad-free version) and comes without an usb-charger (the Nexus 7 includes one).
Obviously you still say things without doing any research.
https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=nexus_7_16gb
I tried this, then, and I try it again now, and it says that this option doesn't exist. So who is saying what?
Then wait a few days for new stock to come in or get the 32GB version which is still available. Regards -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org
Nexus 7 .....
You can't even get a Nexus 7 without owning a PC because they are not in practice offered in stores. Androids, including Nexus 7, are selling to the geekoid crowd. Your average "I just want to read a book" crowd is buying Kindles or maybe a Nook -- not in small part because they ARE offered in stores. In any case, I am all FOR PG supporting readers on whatever flavor of ebook reader they choose. I do not believe PG ought to be in the business of picking "winners and losers" -- except to realize when some technology is lost to the annals of time -- which PG *is* doing by moving at least some deprecated file format choices to the second page.
participants (9)
-
a＠aboq.org -
Alexander Avenarius
-
don kretz -
James Adcock -
Keith J. Schultz -
Lee Passey -
Marcello Perathoner -
traverso＠posso.dm.unipi.it -
Walt Farrell