greg said:
You've been encouraged in a couple of ways to go for it. If there is something you need to demonstrate your ideas, I will try to help. The only thing I don't have is someone to do it for you, or to pick up on your examples and apply them to gutenberg.org.
i didn't understand sufficiently at first, and others do not sufficiently understand yet, as represented by greg's autopilot response, but jim has already _done_ all of the work... the files are even now sitting on his website. as such, they can be accessed there, it is true. but i guess jim thinks -- and i would agree -- that they will have greater prominence if they were to be posted on the p.g. website itself... plus, of course, the files need to be updated as new e-texts are released. but that process could be managed with a script that's trivial... jim shrouded his request in a plethora of moans, but at base he's really not asking for much at all. show you take his work seriously. post his files. -bowerbird
So many people make the same mistake, myself included, mea culpa. They do 99% of the work and then expect the world to beat a path to their doorstep to get their new mousetrap. As that wisest of all modern philosophers says: "It ain't over 'til it's over." mh On Sat, 5 Dec 2009, Bowerbird@aol.com wrote:
greg said:
You've been encouraged in a couple of ways to go for it. If there is something you need to demonstrate your ideas, I will try to help. The only thing I don't have is someone to do it for you, or to pick up on your examples and apply them to gutenberg.org.
i didn't understand sufficiently at first, and others do not sufficiently understand yet, as represented by greg's autopilot response, but jim has already _done_ all of the work...
the files are even now sitting on his website.
as such, they can be accessed there, it is true.
but i guess jim thinks -- and i would agree -- that they will have greater prominence if they were to be posted on the p.g. website itself...
plus, of course, the files need to be updated as new e-texts are released. but that process could be managed with a script that's trivial...
jim shrouded his request in a plethora of moans, but at base he's really not asking for much at all.
show you take his work seriously. post his files.
-bowerbird
They do 99% of the work and then expect the world to beat a path to their doorstep to get their new mousetrap.
According to page hits, about 100,000 books a month are downloaded from my site, which is a small site compared to other sites such as manybooks.net (mnybks.net) -- and this is after I started trying to actively redirect users of my site back to PG once PG started offering MOBI and EPUB directly. That doesn't count downloads via "Magic Catalog" which count as hits at PG. So, it's not that people don't know about ebook reader sites offering free books -- although I suspect MOST users of Kindle don't know that free books exist that they could be reading. Rather it's that PG chooses to isolate itself from the ebook community because PG has something better. I haven't figured out what that is yet, but I keep hearing that PG has something better. Again, I make a simple suggestion: Get a Kindle and try using it with the PG website. You will find that it really doesn't work with the PG website. Then try using the Kindle on other websites that support Mobile Devices and see that it does work on other websites.
On Sat, 5 Dec 2009, James Adcock wrote:
They do 99% of the work and then expect the world to beat a path to their doorstep to get their new mousetrap.
According to page hits, about 100,000 books a month are downloaded from my site, which is a small site compared to other sites such as manybooks.net (mnybks.net) -- and this is after I started trying to actively redirect users of my site back to PG once PG started offering MOBI and EPUB directly.
That doesn't count downloads via "Magic Catalog" which count as hits at PG.
So, it's not that people don't know about ebook reader sites offering free books -- although I suspect MOST users of Kindle don't know that free books exist that they could be reading.
Rather it's that PG chooses to isolate itself from the ebook community because PG has something better. I haven't figured out what that is yet, but I keep hearing that PG has something better.
Again, I make a simple suggestion: Get a Kindle and try using it with the PG website. You will find that it really doesn't work with the PG website. Then try using the Kindle on other websites that support Mobile Devices and see that it does work on other websites.
I think we are still miscommunicating on this. I, and Greg I am sure, would LOVE to put a mirror of your site on PG! Even to the point of redirecting all the traffic here, just to make a more permanent site for you with no expenses, etc. You can continue, exactly as before, and/or add new volunters to help you do even more. Michael
James Adcock wrote:
Again, I make a simple suggestion: Get a Kindle and try using it with the PG website. You will find that it really doesn't work with the PG website. Then try using the Kindle on other websites that support Mobile Devices and see that it does work on other websites.
The PG site doesn't work well with a Kindle because one year ago when I wrote the ePub converter I couldn't get one. OTOH I could walk into a shop 10 minutes from my home and walk out with a Sony Reader. That's usability. (And that was even before I learned about the wireless censoring tool built into the Kindle, which just made sure I will not buy one in future.) If Amazon wants to be a global player it has to play globally. Not restrict its offers to one relatively small country of 300 M inhabitants vs. a global population of 6,800 M. -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Marcello Perathoner <marcello@perathoner.de> wrote:
If Amazon wants to be a global player it has to play globally. Not restrict its offers to one relatively small country of 300 M inhabitants vs. a global population of 6,800 M.
In what sense is the third largest nation by population "relatively small"? And do you deride Project Gutenberg for spending four years and two hundred books before doing in anything in a language other than English? It's not unreasonable for them to start out small and work their way out, especially given that their multinational basis makes them particularly vulnerable to countries like Germany which would happily sue if Amazon doesn't correctly censor what's available. In any case, your complaints are moot; the Kindle is available to you now. -- Kie ekzistas vivo, ekzistas espero.
David Starner wrote:
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Marcello Perathoner <marcello@perathoner.de> wrote:
If Amazon wants to be a global player it has to play globally. Not restrict its offers to one relatively small country of 300 M inhabitants vs. a global population of 6,800 M.
In what sense is the third largest nation by population "relatively small"?
Read before you quote.
It's not unreasonable for them to start out small and work their way out, especially given that their multinational basis makes them particularly vulnerable to countries like Germany which would happily sue if Amazon doesn't correctly censor what's available.
Why would they sue the Kindle more than the paper books that Amazon happily mails to Germany from their US store? And why would they sue the Kindle more than the Sony?
In any case, your complaints are moot; the Kindle is available to you now.
I already own a Sony now. So you can either present me with a Kindle or wait til the Sony breaks. -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org
OTOH I could walk into a shop 10 minutes from my home and walk out with a Sony Reader. That's usability. (And that was even before I learned about the wireless censoring tool built into the Kindle, which just made sure I will not buy one in future.)
Not sure what the "wireless censoring tool" means except perhaps the George Orwell story? http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18amazon.html
If Amazon wants to be a global player it has to play globally. Not restrict its offers to one relatively small country of 300 M inhabitants vs. a global population of 6,800 M.
Also not sure what this one means except perhaps you are unaware that Amazon has started selling an international version? http://www.amazon.com/Kindle
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:56 AM, James Adcock <jimad@msn.com> wrote:
They do 99% of the work and then expect the world to beat a path to their doorstep to get their new mousetrap.
Slight tangent to the thread, but I decided to get the Sony PRS-600BC reader last night at my local Target for a mere $299 *cough*, and brought it home in anticipation of loading it up with lots of Gutenberg epub, lrf and HTML formatted docs. I use Calibre on Linux to communicate with it and sync the docs, news, etc. What a depressing experience, and not the Gutenberg part. - The reader is really horrible for glare. I have to hold it at about a 30-degree angle in order to use it without reflecting everything above, behind and around me. - The contrast is very low and milky. Picture reading a book while it is pressed flat against the outside of your driver-side window. It's worse than that. - The device is VERY slow and unresponsive to finger or stylus. Even my old sub-200Mhz Palm III was faster than this. - Battery life is beyond atrocious. I charged it fully, left it in the "On" state with Power Management enabled, and about an hour later, it had already lost 80% of its battery life - Horrible "neoprene" cover/case that ships with it. Really? For a $300 device, all I get is a flimsy piece of neoprene to protect it? Not even a hard-walled slip case. As others have said, I can get a full netbook for the same price, with a LOT more storage, power, and flexibility. This reader is going back to Target less than 24 hours after the original purchase. Does anyone have a recommendation of one that they DO like, which doesn't hurt the eyes (with glare and contrast straining) and has good battery life and document compatibility?
Addressing the last point, I have heard several people mention that there is ONE feature they look for most. . .non-reflective or translucent glass or whatever on the screen. I'm afraid I've never been bothered by it all that much, other than those few days when the sun shines right behind me, and I just tilt the screens a bit for those few days and I'm OK, though I do notice. I was a bit surprised by the extra cost for such, and wonder about stick- on translucent sheets, like the ones for cellphones, PDAs, etc. I think nearly any arts and crafts store would have such things you would be able to use on your Sony. mh On Mon, 7 Dec 2009, David A. Desrosiers wrote:
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:56 AM, James Adcock <jimad@msn.com> wrote:
They do 99% of the work and then expect the world to beat a path to their doorstep to get their new mousetrap.
Slight tangent to the thread, but I decided to get the Sony PRS-600BC reader last night at my local Target for a mere $299 *cough*, and brought it home in anticipation of loading it up with lots of Gutenberg epub, lrf and HTML formatted docs. I use Calibre on Linux to communicate with it and sync the docs, news, etc.
What a depressing experience, and not the Gutenberg part.
- The reader is really horrible for glare. I have to hold it at about a 30-degree angle in order to use it without reflecting everything above, behind and around me.
- The contrast is very low and milky. Picture reading a book while it is pressed flat against the outside of your driver-side window. It's worse than that.
- The device is VERY slow and unresponsive to finger or stylus. Even my old sub-200Mhz Palm III was faster than this.
- Battery life is beyond atrocious. I charged it fully, left it in the "On" state with Power Management enabled, and about an hour later, it had already lost 80% of its battery life
- Horrible "neoprene" cover/case that ships with it. Really? For a $300 device, all I get is a flimsy piece of neoprene to protect it? Not even a hard-walled slip case.
As others have said, I can get a full netbook for the same price, with a LOT more storage, power, and flexibility. This reader is going back to Target less than 24 hours after the original purchase.
Does anyone have a recommendation of one that they DO like, which doesn't hurt the eyes (with glare and contrast straining) and has good battery life and document compatibility? _______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/mailman/listinfo/gutvol-d
- The reader is really horrible for glare. I have to hold it at about a 30-degree angle in order to use it without reflecting everything above, behind and around me.
I think the problem with the Sony is the plastic overlay that provides for the touch screen feature. In comparison the Kindle has a soft-etched glass screen which doesn't seem to my taste to have reflection problems.
- The contrast is very low and milky. Picture reading a book while it is pressed flat against the outside of your driver-side window. It's worse than that.
Again, I think the Sony has the plastic overlay touch screen, which I think reduces the contrast and makes things darker. But, even the Kindle's version of the e-ink technology is darker and has lower contrast that a paperback book -- similar to reading a European newspaper. The Kindle's e-ink technology is very responsive to how much light you put on it -- more so than paper -- try to read it in the dark, and it will look very dark. Read it in sunlight or a well-lit room and it looks great, almost like paper. I have an Ottlight dedicated reading light that I use to read the Kindle (and paperback books) late at night. Also the e-ink technology is less responsive if the temperatures are cold or if the battery is almost exhausted. My understanding (although I haven't seen it yet) is that the B&N e-reader has a touch screen only on a lower auxiliary screen below the reading screen. The lower auxiliary screen is for navigation and color display of book covers -- which seems silly to my taste, but oh well. I think you can turn off the auxiliary screen when you are reading so it will not distract you.
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 12:17 PM, Jim Adcock <jimad@msn.com> wrote:
My understanding (although I haven't seen it yet) is that the B&N e-reader has a touch screen only on a lower auxiliary screen below the reading screen. The lower auxiliary screen is for navigation and color display of book covers -- which seems silly to my taste, but oh well. I think you can turn off the auxiliary screen when you are reading so it will not distract you.
For every one, there's one that trumps it. I was looking at possibly ditching the Sony and going for the Nook, but the Nook is a bit large, bulky, and with a color touchscreen, is going to eat battery a lot faster. It's also thicker, which is a consideration for portability. But the "Alex" out-trumps the Nook, with even more features, and runs Android. And the Que (due to be announced next month) is reported to even trump the Alex, which isn't officially out yet. This game of cat and mouse has me exhausted, and I'm not even playing yet! :)
Re Nook: I finally got to play with a nook and more importantly B&N finally posted the users manual on the net at: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/nook/support Unfortunately, I think the nook will prove to be a disappointment to PG users. First, it is very slow and unresponsive compared even to a Kindle. Secondly, while it has Wi-Fi, it really doesn't let an owner use that Wi-Fi in any meaningful way! It contains no web browser, not even a weak web browser like the Kindle, nor does it contain any interface that would allow one to pull an E-book using Wi-Fi from a local computer, say. The B&N cellular connection is ONLY for downloading content from B&N, and the Wi-Fi ONLY can be used as a supplemental connection emulating the restricted functionality of the cellular connection. You can connect the nook to a desktop computer using a USB cable, and then like Kindle and other eBook readers it turns into a disc emulation mode allowing one to transfer eBooks from one's desktop computer to the nook using the desktop computer's file management interface aka "drag and drop." In summary: Caveat Emptor! PS: One interesting thing it does have is reflow capability of PDF file format -- if the PDF file format is not a scanned book. IE don't expect reflow on Google scanned books. I haven't seen this work in practice, so I am suspicious, although they do admit that graphics may not reflow correctly. It also has a better selection of fonts than Kindle. File formats supported: PDF, PDB, and EPUB.
i didn't understand sufficiently at first, and others do not sufficiently understand yet, as represented by greg's autopilot response, but jim has already _done_ all of the work...
Again, a brief history of this whole episode was: 1) A couple years ago the first Kindle comes out 2) I say wow this is a better reading experience than I've experienced before 3) I check on the PG website and it has literally a couple MOBI files on it 4) I contact PG and say okay I am making MOBI files out of your books, how do I add them to your site? 5) PG responds Not Interested, Not Interested, Not Interested! 6) I say OK, I guess I will have to route around damage. 7) I spend two years converting PG books to MOBI format on my own website. 8) PG says, gosh, we guess we are interested after all! 9) I say, gee, this is silly, we are duplicating work, and furthermore PG is better set up to do this work anyway. 10) I suggest, PG site doesn't work worth a dang from Mobile devices, why not make a version of the site that is Mobile Device friendly - just like the big boys do? 11) And/Or make a Mobile Device friendly version of your "Landing Pads" so PG can at least get the donations and credits greatly due PG? 12) PG responds again Not Interested, Not Interested, Not Interested! Again, how IS one supposed to read PG books? I mean this as a SERIOUS question! Print them out? -- Cheaper and more environmentally friendly to buy the paperback version at B&N Read them on a laptop? - Too big fat and heavy to carry on the bus. Read them on your cellphone? - Maybe, if you spend a couple hundred bucks on your cellphone plus maybe $100 a month for internet access from your local cellphone company. And if your style of reading is amenable to the "fortune cookie" problem - my style of reading ISN'T - I read bigger chunks than that. I don't disagree that there are readers out there that read "word at a time" or "line at a time" and to them maybe the "fortune cookie" program ISN'T a problem to them - but to me it is. Not to mention that I don't like spending big bucks on monthly cellphone bills! Read them on a netbook? -- Maybe, but I'm suspicious of the eventual eyestrain -- I will be trying this approach to make a "generic" reader. Also, netbooks won't lie flat, and are kind of on the big fat and heavy side compared to a book. Why do I like the Kindle? -- It allows me to actually read books, and read books without eyestrain, and allows me to "get into" my reading just like I get into reading a paperback. Its not that the Kindle is perfect, nor Amazon perfect - they both got some pretty big problems, including overly obnoxious DRM schemes. But, in practice, "it works" where for me "it works" includes the idea that one doesn't always have to run home and tether one's ebook reader to a desktop every time you want to get a new book to read. Waiting to see the B&N reader in the bookstore to see how well it works - seems to me the B&N WiFi approach might be better than the Kindle Whispernet approach, but there are goofy aspects to the B&N reader too. And in the next year there is going to be about a dozen more interesting ebook readers coming out. Why all this interest in ebook readers? People like them. People use them. People buy them. People buy books for them. People read books on them. In short, because it works. And technology where one can actually say "it works" is really a pretty rare thing! That's why I'm excited by ebook readers - because it actually makes projects like PG begin to make sense! [And they are really fun! Don't really know why - they just are!]
On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 8:38 PM, James Adcock <jimad@msn.com> wrote:
Again, how IS one supposed to read PG books? I mean this as a SERIOUS question!
I download all my books from Manybooks.net and send ebook newbies there too. They take all the PG texts and provide them in various device-friendly formats. As far as I'm concerned, PG is just a rest stop on the way to Manybooks. -- Karen Lofstrom about 55,000 pages proofed at DP
On Sat, 5 Dec 2009, Karen Lofstrom wrote:
On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 8:38 PM, James Adcock <jimad@msn.com> wrote:
Again, how IS one supposed to read PG books? I mean this as a SERIOUS question!
I download all my books from Manybooks.net and send ebook newbies there too. They take all the PG texts and provide them in various device-friendly formats. As far as I'm concerned, PG is just a rest stop on the way to Manybooks.
I was talking about eBook readers at Borders today and mentioned PG, Archive, manybooks.org, etc., saying that each one had its advantages. One thing I learned, is that apparently we have to restate our case for FREE eBooks, as the media seems to have muddied that up quite a bit. . . . mh
On Sat, 5 Dec 2009, James Adcock wrote:
i didn't understand sufficiently at first, and others do not sufficiently understand yet, as represented by greg's autopilot response, but jim has already _done_ all of the work...
Again, a brief history of this whole episode was:
1) A couple years ago the first Kindle comes out
2) I say wow this is a better reading experience than I’ve experienced before
3) I check on the PG website and it has literally a couple MOBI files on it
4) I contact PG and say okay I am making MOBI files out of your books, how do I add them to your site?
5) PG responds Not Interested, Not Interested, Not Interested!
6) I say OK, I guess I will have to route around damage.
7) I spend two years converting PG books to MOBI format on my own website.
8) PG says, gosh, we guess we are interested after all!
9) I say, gee, this is silly, we are duplicating work, and furthermore PG is better set up to do this work anyway.
10) I suggest, PG site doesn’t work worth a dang from Mobile devices, why not make a version of the site that is Mobile Device friendly – just like the big boys do?
11) And/Or make a Mobile Device friendly version of your “Landing Pads” so PG can at least get the donations and credits greatly due PG?
12) PG responds again Not Interested, Not Interested, Not Interested!
First and foremost, when you get responses of "Not Interested" come to Greg/me for assistance. . .once you have communicated to either of us [you do not have to convince both, or anyone else] we'll fix you up with your own PG site, then you can be off to the races, and also get some PR in the Newsletter. It doesn't really matter if WE are interested! It only really matters of YOU are interested! Sometimes it sounds as if people want us to do it for them, and I think that is where the miscommunication lies. . . .! As per my previous message on this, -I- SAY GO FOR IT!!!!! You don't need to convince us. . .just do it. . . . We'll run nearly anything up the flagpole to see it it works. [As for the .mobi files, I think there has been more interest than most people are aware of. . .perhaps just too scattered]
Again, how IS one supposed to read PG books? I mean this as a SERIOUS question!
Print them out? -- Cheaper and more environmentally friendly to buy the paperback version at B&N
Some do, though I've never really understood that.
Read them on a laptop? – Too big fat and heavy to carry on the bus.
I think this all depends on the person, what they are comfortable with. I've seen plenty of people around here with laptops on busses. Not to mention at the libraries.
Read them on your cellphone? – Maybe, if you spend a couple hundred bucks on your cellphone plus maybe $100
The first thing I tell people about cellphones is NEVER GET A CELLPHONE WITHOUT WIFI!!!
a month for internet access from your local cellphone company. And if your style of reading is amenable to the “fortune cookie” problem – my style of reading ISN’T – I read bigger chunks than that. I don’t disagree that there are readers out there that read “word at a time” or “line at a time” and to them maybe the “fortune cookie” program ISN’T a problem to them – but to me it is. Not to mention that I don’t like spending big bucks on monthly cellphone bills!
Use wifi, forget the phone bill, it doesn't even have to be activated!!! As for fortune cookies, I think you're overdoing it there a bit, but the whole thing is a matter of personal taste. I don't like reading off an ereader. . .none of them. . .period. I've done live readings off cellphones that made people think I had memorized entire passages from Shakespeare. Reading a Shakespeare play is hard reading in any format for it contains so many lines by different people.
Read them on a netbook? -- Maybe, but I’m suspicious of the eventual eyestrain -- I will be trying this approach to make a “generic” reader. Also, netbooks won’t lie flat, and are kind of on the big fat and heavy side compared to a book.
I've never been in a situation where I wanted my netbook to lie flat. Now I'll have to see how far it will tilt back, and let makers know I know of at least one person who wants them to lie flat. I guess if tablets ever get very popular they might encourage this. As for B&N, I'm afraid all but the largest still don't have "nooks," and I'm afraid it's ruining their credibility, esp. since they sent so many mass mailings out to come see them at earlier dates. Now it's Pearl Harbor Day, not that the new generation knows that-- but it might become a date of infamy--just because of delay, delay. You'd think they would at least have demo's out in stores by now. They are verly likely putting a dent in their holiday sales. . . . And in their credibility. I've been every week for 10 weeks now. . .duh!!!
Why do I like the Kindle? -- It allows me to actually read books, and read books without eyestrain, and allows me to “get into” my reading just like I get into reading a paperback. Its not that the Kindle is perfect, nor Amazon perfect – they both got some pretty big problems, including overly obnoxious DRM
Is there anything like lots more about Kindles than Sonys or nooks? I've heard there are other eink ereaders out there, any differences?
schemes. But, in practice, “it works” where for me “it works” includes the idea that one doesn’t always have to run home and tether one’s ebook reader to a desktop every time you want to get a new book to read.
Again, it's always nice to have wifi.
Waiting to see the B&N reader in the bookstore to see how well it works – seems to me the B&N WiFi approach might be better than the Kindle Whispernet approach, but there are goofy aspects to the B&N reader too. And in the next year there is going to be about a dozen more interesting ebook readers coming out. Why all this interest in ebook readers? People like them. People use them. People buy them. People buy books for them. People read books on them. In short, because it works. And technology where one can actually say “it works” is really a pretty rare thing! That’s why I’m excited by ebook readers – because it actually makes projects like PG begin to make sense! [And they are really fun! Don’t really know why – they just are!]
Apparently about 4% of all books sales are now eBooks. [They still refuse to count free ones like ours] This is just about exactly the same ~4% amount that paper book sales are down. . .so books are not down in the total sense, but apparently not all of their execs got the memo and are still blaming piracy. Speaking of piracy, is anyone ready to start a work against the obvious 2018 US Copyright Act??? mh
First and foremost, when you get responses of "Not Interested" come to Greg/me for assistance. . .once you have communicated to either of us [you do not have to convince both, or anyone else] we'll fix you up with your own PG site, then you can be off to the races, and also get some PR in the Newsletter.
What I guess I would be interested in doing is trying out "on an experimental basis" a "Mobile Devices Centric" version of the PG website. If it doesn't actually make a contribution to society, well, then pull the plug -- no problem. I think a mobile device centric version of the PG website would benefit not only Kindle users, but most cellphone users. I am assuming that there are other people out there who know so much more about websites than I do that they will laugh at my "contributions" -- but, so be it. But I don't know how to get started, so any pointers would be appreciated.
The first thing I tell people about cellphones is NEVER GET A CELLPHONE WITHOUT WIFI!!!
OK, well if a cellphone has wifi then it just comes down pretty much to an argument of display technologies and screen size. I like eink technology, for me a std Kindle is a little small, I like the DX but admit its starting to get cumbersome to carry around (about the same size as a netbook but thinner and lighter weight). Some are happy to do an iphone size device with backlight LCD,... Still, if I had an iphone I would be running some kind of either EPUB or MOBI reader software on it to provide a more "booklike" experience.
As for fortune cookies, I think you're overdoing it there a bit, but the whole thing is a matter of personal taste.
Well, between an iphone, and ereader, or a netbook, one is still talking about $250 in any case, so then its mainly a choice of form factor and display technology.
As for B&N, I'm afraid all but the largest still don't have "nooks," and I'm afraid it's ruining their credibility, esp. since they sent so many mass mailings out to come see them at earlier dates.
I think the situation was similar for Kindle the first year, except that you couldn't see a Kindle in ANY store. Amazon was at least smart enough to publish their user manuals online -- B&N won't even do that! Again, I think competition is a good thing -- hopefully competition between ebook suppliers will drive them towards adopting less onerous DRM schemes, just as competition drove the music industry towards less onerous DRM schemes.
Is there anything like lots more about Kindles than Sonys or nooks?
Kindles have Whispernet technology, which is great when it works. I'm in a fringe reception area, so sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It would be great if it also had wifi. Kindle accepts MOBI PRC TXT and PDF (if you have a Kindle DX) which allows one to cover most "free" choices except EPUB, which requires a one-minute conversion via Calibre say, which takes hooking up the Kindle to a PC. It may sound silly, but after hooking up an ereader to a PC a couple hundred times, one starts to wish for something else -- such as Whispernet or wifi.
I've heard there are other eink ereaders out there, any differences?
Mainly that they're even more behind schedule than B&N. Doesn't really matter how good the technology is unless you have a major player supporting it -- if it doesn't, you're going to end up with an orphan device. One might expect Apple to come up with a dedicated ereader, and one might expect Google to do so to. Microsoft tried an ebook effort already which kind of imploded as far as I can tell. Google are the obvious ones to make a hard push towards an ebook reader, IMHO.
Speaking of piracy, is anyone ready to start a work against the obvious 2018 US Copyright Act???
Sorry, what's happening on the "new and improved" copyright front?
Jim Adcock said: "Well, between an iphone, and ereader, or a netbook, one is still talking about $250 in any case, so then its mainly a choice of form factor and display . . . " /// For me this is NOT the issue, but rather the same "dedicated equipment" issue people have been talking about since "WANG Word Processors" at an average price that was above the average family income of the time. I never did understand the advantage of those over Apple ]['s, etc.... The Merganthaler users didn't understand either, both went under.... So, for me, it's the question of carrying: A. An ereader B. A phone/MP3/browser/emailer/texter/GPS C. A pretty much full function computer [w or w/o optical drive] For me the first choice is the last choice, it doesn't do enough. Period. I keep playing with them at the stores, never get hooked. I liked the read out loud part, and still wonder of the legal wars that somehow killed that one so fast it was stillborn. As for cellphones, I think they are amazing, and really getting to the point where they are just about full tilt computers. I prefer movies on a larger screen, but 10" is more than enough, so that is what I bought myself for the holidays, $250, and PG didn't have to foot the bill. I don't carry the DVD/CD drive unless it's a plan. As for Jim's ideas about web pages for various devices, I'm happy to say we have already heard from at least one volunteer to help. mh
James Adcock wrote:
Read them on a laptop? – Too big fat and heavy to carry on the bus.
A very interesting, to me, fact that I learned recently is that most (over half) readers of romance ebooks read them on computer screens. The romance genre is one area where commercial ebooks have been adopted very quickly. Someone in that part of the industry pointed out that many of their consumers are stuck at computers all day, often with not enough to occupy their time (think receptionists, secretaries, etc.) Having text on the screen looks much better than something that is obviously a game, but having a physical book wouldn't look good at all. There are certainly lots of other factors that have influenced the acceptance of ebooks in that market, but this was one that hadn't occurred to me. Just a reminder that not everyone has the same desires and constraints that most people on this list have. JulietS
LOL -- touché -- OK when I am at work (meaning at the computer) then I don't get to read romance novels. But if I were to read romance novels I would need to read it on my Kindle so my wife and two daughters wouldn't laugh at me! -----Original Message----- From: gutvol-d-bounces@lists.pglaf.org [mailto:gutvol-d-bounces@lists.pglaf.org] On Behalf Of Juliet Sutherland Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 7:42 AM To: Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: New mobile devices page James Adcock wrote:
Read them on a laptop? Too big fat and heavy to carry on the bus.
A very interesting, to me, fact that I learned recently is that most (over half) readers of romance ebooks read them on computer screens. The romance genre is one area where commercial ebooks have been adopted very quickly. Someone in that part of the industry pointed out that many of their consumers are stuck at computers all day, often with not enough to occupy their time (think receptionists, secretaries, etc.) Having text on the screen looks much better than something that is obviously a game, but having a physical book wouldn't look good at all. There are certainly lots of other factors that have influenced the acceptance of ebooks in that market, but this was one that hadn't occurred to me. Just a reminder that not everyone has the same desires and constraints that most people on this list have. JulietS _______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/mailman/listinfo/gutvol-d
participants (9)
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Bowerbird＠aol.com -
David A. Desrosiers -
David Starner -
James Adcock -
Jim Adcock
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Juliet Sutherland -
Karen Lofstrom -
Marcello Perathoner -
Michael S. Hart