a couple more things on page scan filenaming
In regards to my prior messages today bringing up some preliminary ideas about a convention for naming page scan images, a couple more situations came to mind: 1) Some Works comprise multiple volumes, such as Burton's "The Book of the Thousand Nights and a Night", which comprises 10, 16 or 17 volumes, depending on the edition and what one defines to be the "Work". So that has to be considered with respect to book/volume/ work identifiers, and depends upon what the processing system (such as DP) assigns IDs. 2) Some page numbers are implied, but not specifically printed with the page number. For example, in the "My Antonia" project, the last page in most every chapter was kept unnumbered, although each has an obvious logical page number based on page number sequencing -- the publisher simply chose not to print the page number on these pages. It seems to me the filenaming system has to include implied publisher page numbering. Thoughts on the page scan filenaming conventions I've been considering so far? Jon
Jon Noring wrote:
1) Some Works comprise multiple volumes, such as Burton's "The Book of the Thousand Nights and a Night", which comprises 10, 16 or 17 volumes, depending on the edition and what one defines to be the "Work". So that has to be considered with respect to book/volume/ work identifiers, and depends upon what the processing system (such as DP) assigns IDs.
Page images should record the appearance of a physical book. We will never merge more than one book into one djvu file nor split one book across multiple djvu files. If you have 16 physical volumes, you will have 16 djvu files.
2) Some page numbers are implied, but not specifically printed with the page number. For example, in the "My Antonia" project, the last page in most every chapter was kept unnumbered, although each has an obvious logical page number based on page number sequencing -- the publisher simply chose not to print the page number on these pages.
It seems to me the filenaming system has to include implied publisher page numbering.
If you had read the RFC you would have noticed a paragraph that says: ------- The <page number> is the true page number as seen on the physical page (or inferred from the previous / next pages) expressed in arabic numerals and left-padded with zeroes to a length of 4 digits. -------- -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org
I am almost finishing the book Unknown Mexico, by Carl Lumholtz (1851-1922), published in 1902-3. A very nice anthropolical book with hunderds of nice illustrations, several in color. The curious thing is that it is public domain everywhere, except for Mexico, which extended copyrights to a ridiculous life+100 years. Copies in antiquarian shops costs over $2000, if available at all. (A 1987 Dover reprint can sometimes be found for about $100) Can we use this fact to protest against this stupidity some how, for example, releasing it with a note, in both English and Spanish: NOT FOR MEXICANS THIS BOOK IS ILLEGAL TO DOWNLOAD IN MEXICO ONLY No, we don't want to discriminate against Mexicans, but the Mexican government does! In July 2003, Mexico extended its copyrights to last 100 years after the death of the author. This makes Mexico the only country in the world (besides Cote d'Ivoire) where downloading this book is illegal. Mexicans please contact to your parliament to complain about this ridiculous act that locks Mexicans from their cultural heritage.
If you need any help translating this note into Spanish, let me know. My wife is from Guatemala and would be happy to assist. Sincerely Aaron Cannon At 03:22 PM 7/18/2005, you wrote:
I am almost finishing the book Unknown Mexico, by Carl Lumholtz (1851-1922), published in 1902-3. A very nice anthropolical book with hunderds of nice illustrations, several in color. The curious thing is that it is public domain everywhere, except for Mexico, which extended copyrights to a ridiculous life+100 years. Copies in antiquarian shops costs over $2000, if available at all. (A 1987 Dover reprint can sometimes be found for about $100)
Can we use this fact to protest against this stupidity some how, for example, releasing it with a note, in both English and Spanish:
NOT FOR MEXICANS
THIS BOOK IS ILLEGAL TO DOWNLOAD IN MEXICO ONLY
No, we don't want to discriminate against Mexicans, but the Mexican government does! In July 2003, Mexico extended its copyrights to last 100 years after the death of the author. This makes Mexico the only country in the world (besides Cote d'Ivoire) where downloading this book is illegal. Mexicans please contact to your parliament to complain about this ridiculous act that locks Mexicans from their cultural heritage.
_______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d
-- E-mail: cannona@fireantproductions.com Skype: cannona MSN Messenger: cannona@hotmail.com (Do not send E-mail to the hotmail address.)
I am looking for a few people who would like to transcribe music for a book I am preparing for Project Gutenberg (Unknown Mexico by Carl Lumholtz). I would like to have the notes rendered in a nice way (the scans are ugly, and I cannot rescan easily), as well as midi files to listen to the tunes. For the context, I provide an HTML version of the book (without the bulk of illustrations) The music fragments: http://www.gutenberg.ph/help/music-fragments.html The entire text (about 900 kB): http://www.gutenberg.ph/help/UnknownMexico1.html Thanks!
Jeroen, you do know that DPUS has a music team, and several people experienced in formatting music in lilypond/midi/etc.? Or did you already post there, and I just missed it? Melissa On 7/19/05, Jeroen Hellingman (Mailing List Account) < jeroen.mailinglist@bohol.ph> wrote:
I am looking for a few people who would like to transcribe music for a book I am preparing for Project Gutenberg (Unknown Mexico by Carl Lumholtz).
I would like to have the notes rendered in a nice way (the scans are ugly, and I cannot rescan easily), as well as midi files to listen to the tunes. For the context, I provide an HTML version of the book (without the bulk of illustrations)
The music fragments: http://www.gutenberg.ph/help/music-fragments.html
The entire text (about 900 kB): http://www.gutenberg.ph/help/UnknownMexico1.html
Thanks! _______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d
Hello. I was unaware of this, but this gives me an idea. Would anyone like to do American folk music in MIDI format with text lyrics? Much of the sheet music is online from the Library of Congress. It is of course public domain since I am referring to Civil War songs and early 1900's. Here is a site which goes into much more detail on how to obtain the sheet music and includes lots of lyrics. He says on the site that the MIDI files are his work and are not public domain, but the lyrics he posts are and links to sheet music sites which are. Someone might like to look into this. It would be a lot of work since MIDI versions would have to be produced and the lyrics would have to be extracted, but he says in his FAQ that anyone may use the text files of the lyrics. http://pdmusic.org/ At 02:30 PM 7/19/2005 -0700, you wrote:
Jeroen, you do know that DPUS has a music team, and several people experienced in formatting music in lilypond/midi/etc.? Or did you already post there, and I just missed it?
On 7/20/05, Tony Baechler <tb@baechler.net> wrote:
Hello. I was unaware of this, but this gives me an idea. Would anyone like to do American folk music in MIDI format with text lyrics? Much of the sheet music is online from the Library of Congress. It is of course public domain since I am referring to Civil War songs and early 1900's. Here is a site which goes into much more detail on how to obtain the sheet music and includes lots of lyrics. He says on the site that the MIDI files are his work and are not public domain, but the lyrics he posts are and links to sheet music sites which are. Someone might like to look into this. It would be a lot of work since MIDI versions would have to be produced and the lyrics would have to be extracted, but he says in his FAQ that anyone may use the text files of the lyrics.
There are several places offering public domain sheet music; some are in Finale format, some in lilypond, some in PDF. I used to have a list when I was more active in choral ensembles. Midi files are odd; if it's a recording of someone entering each track through a midi keyboard, it is copyrighted as a performance. But if you enter it note for note (say, in Lilypond format) then it is still PD. Or at least that is my understanding. As an aside, I currently have a book in the rounds at DP that has been languishing for a while; partly because the pool of lilyponders is smaller than I thought, but mostly because the microfiche scans are so poor. Andrew Adgate, Rudiments of Music, an early American music textbook/hymnal. I have a new scanner coming in that may have sufficient resolution to scan them directly; I shall have to try it and find out.. R C
Tony Baechler wrote:
Hello. I was unaware of this, but this gives me an idea. Would anyone like to do American folk music in MIDI format with text lyrics? Much of the sheet music is online from the Library of Congress. It is of course public domain since I am referring to Civil War songs and early 1900's. Here is a site which goes into much more detail on how to obtain the sheet music and includes lots of lyrics. He says on the site that the MIDI files are his work and are not public domain, but the lyrics he posts are and links to sheet music sites which are. Someone might like to look into this. It would be a lot of work since MIDI versions would have to be produced and the lyrics would have to be extracted, but he says in his FAQ that anyone may use the text files of the lyrics.
MIDI? That's _so_ last century ;-) Here are a couple of my favourite sites: Roger McGuinn's folk den http://www.ibiblio.org/jimmy/folkden/php/search/ Free Music http://hebb.mit.edu/FreeMusic/ Cheers, Holden
On Mon, Jul 18, 2005 at 10:22:39PM +0200, Jeroen Hellingman (Mailing List Account) wrote:
I am almost finishing the book Unknown Mexico, by Carl Lumholtz (1851-1922), published in 1902-3. A very nice anthropolical book with hunderds of nice illustrations, several in color. The curious thing is that it is public domain everywhere, except for Mexico, which extended copyrights to a ridiculous life+100 years. Copies in antiquarian shops costs over $2000, if available at all. (A 1987 Dover reprint can sometimes be found for about $100)
Can we use this fact to protest against this stupidity some how, for example, releasing it with a note, in both English and Spanish:
NOT FOR MEXICANS
THIS BOOK IS ILLEGAL TO DOWNLOAD IN MEXICO ONLY
No, we don't want to discriminate against Mexicans, but the Mexican government does! In July 2003, Mexico extended its copyrights to last 100 years after the death of the author. This makes Mexico the only country in the world (besides Cote d'Ivoire) where downloading this book is illegal. Mexicans please contact to your parliament to complain about this ridiculous act that locks Mexicans from their cultural heritage.
Hi, Jeroen. Thanks for thinking to protect folks outside of the US, but this type of statement is something we don't need or want. As you see in our license & small print at http://gutenberg.org/license , we only ever talk about public domain status in the US. We do not have the time or expertise to extend our copyright research beyond the US (we meaning PG of US, in this case). To do so for a particular item might imply our willingness to do it for all items, in all countries -- something we definitely won't/can't do. Yes, I know Peter Pan is an exception (in more ways than one). Yes, I know non-US mirrors might be taking risks. I hope this makes sense to you. -- Greg
As a further point I would add that I believe PG texts which are a transcription of an old book should be just the text of that book, perhaps with the addition of explanatory or clarifying notes if needed. Adding our own policical or social messages is not appropriate in my opinion. (although I quite agree with Jeroen's sentiment.) It's also worth remembering that these texts are likely to be around for a long time. Some of the additional volunteer comments that apparantly seemed reasonable in early PG texts seem a little out of place today. (Such as itemizing details of what brand of scanner and what ocr software was used to digitize the text.) Andrew On Mon, 18 Jul 2005, Greg Newby wrote:
On Mon, Jul 18, 2005 at 10:22:39PM +0200, Jeroen Hellingman (Mailing List Account) wrote:
Can we use this fact to protest against this stupidity some how, for example, releasing it with a note, in both English and Spanish:
NOT FOR MEXICANS
THIS BOOK IS ILLEGAL TO DOWNLOAD IN MEXICO ONLY
Hi, Jeroen. Thanks for thinking to protect folks outside of the US, but this type of statement is something we don't need or want. As you see in our license & small print at http://gutenberg.org/license , we only ever talk about public domain status in the US.
Hi, My idea was to use this particular title to put the Mexican copyright term in the spotlight. Not necessarily Project Gutenberg needs to be involved; it could be arranged for that this text, some time after it appears in PG (I am close to submitting it) be brought under the attention of Mexicans, and in particular the Mexican press. I was NOT planning to place a marker above the text, which is supposed to last much longer than this issue is to, only to give the longest copyright term in the world some bad press... I can make my statement by just having this text in PG. I understand the reasons why PG doesn't want to talk about foreign copyrights, as that would open more than a can of nasty worms. However, the pattern should be clear, that harmonizing always means extending, and long terms in developing countries are relatively easy to buy, as the public has more pressing issues to think about. For the long term achievement of Project Gutenberg's aims, keeping copyrights in control is essential. A life+100 term combined with a so-called "paying public domain" as has been proposed by some in the business will effectively kill PG. If it is not intended as a form of protest about the weird status of Peter Pan, I strongly am in favour of removing that claim: the details are in wikipedia: The U.K. copyright for /Peter Pan/ originally expired at the end of 1987 (50 years after Barrie's death), but was reestablished through 2007 by the European Union directive. Additionally, in 1988 the government had enacted a perpetual extension of some of the rights to the work, entitling the hospital to royalties for any performance or publication of the work. This is not a true perpetual copyright </wiki/Perpetual_copyright>, however, as it does not grant the hospital creative control nor the right to refuse permission. Nor does it cover the Peter Pan sections of /The Little White Bird/, which pre-dates the play. The exact phrasing is in section 301 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988: 301. The provisions of Schedule 6 have effect for conferring on trustees for the benefit of the Hospital for Sick Children, Great Ormond Street, London, a right to a royalty in respect of the public performance, commercial publication, broadcasting or inclusion in a cable programme service of the play 'Peter Pan' by Sir James Matthew Barrie, or of any adaptation of that work, notwithstanding that copyright in the work expired on 31 December </wiki/December_31> 1987 </wiki/1987>. ([1] <http://www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/Ukpga_19880048_en_28.htm#sdiv6>) Jeroen Hellingman Greg Newby wrote:
Hi, Jeroen. Thanks for thinking to protect folks outside
of the US, but this type of statement is something we don't need or want. As you see in our license & small print at http://gutenberg.org/license , we only ever talk about public domain status in the US.
We do not have the time or expertise to extend our copyright research beyond the US (we meaning PG of US, in this case). To do so for a particular item might imply our willingness to do it for all items, in all countries -- something we definitely won't/can't do.
Yes, I know Peter Pan is an exception (in more ways than one).
Yes, I know non-US mirrors might be taking risks.
I hope this makes sense to you. -- Greg _______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d
On Tue, Jul 19, 2005 at 11:29:22PM +0200, Jeroen Hellingman (Mailing List Account) wrote:
Hi,
My idea was to use this particular title to put the Mexican copyright term in the spotlight. Not necessarily Project Gutenberg needs to be involved; it could be arranged for that this text, some time after it appears in PG (I am close to submitting it) be brought under the attention of Mexicans, and in particular the Mexican press. I was NOT planning to place a marker above the text, which is supposed to last much longer than this issue is to, only to give the longest copyright term in the world some bad press... I can make my statement by just having this text in PG.
This is a plan I agree with. Moreover, as should be clear from the gutvol-d list, I am very supportive of efforts to use PG as an example of the benefits of the public domain. It's an important role for us.
I understand the reasons why PG doesn't want to talk about foreign copyrights, as that would open more than a can of nasty worms. However, the pattern should be clear, that harmonizing always means extending, and long terms in developing countries are relatively easy to buy, as the public has more pressing issues to think about. For the long term achievement of Project Gutenberg's aims, keeping copyrights in control is essential. A life+100 term combined with a so-called "paying public domain" as has been proposed by some in the business will effectively kill PG.
(Preaching to the choir)
If it is not intended as a form of protest about the weird status of Peter Pan, I strongly am in favour of removing that claim: the details are in wikipedia:
Understood. It's just that PP is the one eBook I know of where we make a statement that goes beyond the US borders, so I didn't want you to be tempted to use it as evidence on why we *should* include copyright or public domain statements specific to non-US countries. From what I understand, the current header in our PP is not quite right, but MH is reluctant to modify it since it was verified as accurate when that eBook was released in ~1991, at least to the satisfaction of PG's lawyers of the time. Probably we'll tweak it someday, and might go ahead and link to the wiki entry you mention. -- Greg
The U.K. copyright for /Peter Pan/ originally expired at the end of 1987 (50 years after Barrie's death), but was reestablished through 2007 by the European Union directive. Additionally, in 1988 the government had enacted a perpetual extension of some of the rights to the work, entitling the hospital to royalties for any performance or publication of the work. This is not a true perpetual copyright </wiki/Perpetual_copyright>, however, as it does not grant the hospital creative control nor the right to refuse permission. Nor does it cover the Peter Pan sections of /The Little White Bird/, which pre-dates the play. The exact phrasing is in section 301 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988:
301. The provisions of Schedule 6 have effect for conferring on trustees for the benefit of the Hospital for Sick Children, Great Ormond Street, London, a right to a royalty in respect of the public performance, commercial publication, broadcasting or inclusion in a cable programme service of the play 'Peter Pan' by Sir James Matthew Barrie, or of any adaptation of that work, notwithstanding that copyright in the work expired on 31 December </wiki/December_31> 1987 </wiki/1987>. ([1] <http://www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/Ukpga_19880048_en_28.htm#sdiv6>)
Jeroen Hellingman
Greg Newby wrote:
Hi, Jeroen. Thanks for thinking to protect folks outside
of the US, but this type of statement is something we don't need or want. As you see in our license & small print at http://gutenberg.org/license , we only ever talk about public domain status in the US.
We do not have the time or expertise to extend our copyright research beyond the US (we meaning PG of US, in this case). To do so for a particular item might imply our willingness to do it for all items, in all countries -- something we definitely won't/can't do.
Yes, I know Peter Pan is an exception (in more ways than one).
Yes, I know non-US mirrors might be taking risks.
I hope this makes sense to you. -- Greg _______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d
_______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d
participants (10)
-
Aaron Cannon -
Andrew Sly -
Greg Newby -
Holden McGroin -
Jeroen Hellingman (Mailing List Account) -
Jon Noring -
Marcello Perathoner -
Melissa Er-Raqabi -
Robert Cicconetti -
Tony Baechler