"[Apple] has told some applications developers, including Sony, that they can no longer sell content, like e-books, within their apps, or let customers have access to purchases they have made outside the App Store." -- http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/01/technology/01apple.html Now, if you want to read a book on your Kindle at home, and on your iPhone on the road, you'll have to buy it twice. In related news, Android is now selling twice as fast as iOS: http://www.canalys.com/pr/2011/r2011013.html I guess some companies just deserve to lose. They lost against M$ when they had a superior product. How big are they going to lose now, that they have an inferior product and still refuse to play? -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org
Let me see if I understand you correctly ! You are slamming Apple because they will not support a product from the competition, that is they(Sony) sell their products directly through Apple devices. Well, you can buy and read Books from the iBook Store on the Sony or Kindle either. They must not be playing the game. The Kindle App is still online! But, the Kindle App does not allow you to buy books, directly! You have to buy them from the Kindle or online!! On the other side Apple is in the business of selling books. Why should they support others without getting a piece of the cake. I guess Apple is, also, dumb because they do not sell the SONY and Kindle at the Apple Stores. On another side, aren't the Kindle and SONY not PORTABLE devices. Is that not why you bought them in the first place. Take your Kindle along with you. I take my MacBookPro 17" always along with me when I am "ON THE ROAD" Probably, Apples iPhone is somehow better than the Kindle and Sony, nooo! If you do not like Apple and they do not offer what you want do NOT buy Apple. I will not touch a Kindle, Sony, or Android device. In case you are wondering I have a Nokia, no iPad, no iPhone. regards Keith. Am 01.02.2011 um 15:00 schrieb Marcello Perathoner:
"[Apple] has told some applications developers, including Sony, that they can no longer sell content, like e-books, within their apps, or let customers have access to purchases they have made outside the App Store."
-- http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/01/technology/01apple.html
Now, if you want to read a book on your Kindle at home, and on your iPhone on the road, you'll have to buy it twice.
In related news, Android is now selling twice as fast as iOS:
http://www.canalys.com/pr/2011/r2011013.html
I guess some companies just deserve to lose. They lost against M$ when they had a superior product. How big are they going to lose now, that they have an inferior product and still refuse to play?
-- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org _______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/mailman/listinfo/gutvol-d
On 02/01/2011 04:32 PM, Keith J. Schultz wrote:
You are slamming Apple because they will not support a product from the competition, that is they(Sony) sell their products directly through Apple devices.
I'm not slamming Apple. Why bother? They are doing it so well themselves. I can buy an ebook from Amazon and then: - read it on the Kindle: YES - read it on Windows Desktop: YES - read it on Windows Phone: YES - read it on Android: YES - read it on Blackberry: YES - read it on iOS: NO (have to buy it again, giving Apple a 30% cut.) Hmmmmm. Which one will be my next reading platform? -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org
On 02/01/2011 04:32 PM, Keith J. Schultz wrote:
You are slamming Apple because they will not support a product from the competition, that is they(Sony) sell their products directly through Apple devices.
I'm with Marcello here; I'm not going to buy the same ebook twice, so why should I mess around with Apple products when there's good alternatives? -- Kie ekzistas vivo, ekzistas espero.
I'm sure Mr. Starner thought he would never buy the same movie twice when they first came out at $100 price ranges, but I'll be eBooks do come down in price, perhaps even enough that Mr. Starner should have two copies of some favorite titles. Never bought the same movie twice? Never bought the same piece of music twice? Oh well. . .obviously I am incorrect about some people. mh On Tue, 1 Feb 2011, David Starner wrote:
On 02/01/2011 04:32 PM, Keith J. Schultz wrote:
You are slamming Apple because they will not support a product from the competition, that is they(Sony) sell their products directly through Apple devices.
I'm with Marcello here; I'm not going to buy the same ebook twice, so why should I mess around with Apple products when there's good alternatives?
Here's an interesting position that I think makes sense. Will we move from buying a book to buying access to our personal libraries? http://www.mondaynote.com/2010/11/08/ebooks-trading-digital-rights-not-files... On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 12:14 PM, Michael S. Hart <hart@pglaf.org> wrote:
I'm sure Mr. Starner thought he would never buy the same movie twice when they first came out at $100 price ranges, but I'll be eBooks do come down in price, perhaps even enough that Mr. Starner should have two copies of some favorite titles.
Never bought the same movie twice?
Never bought the same piece of music twice?
Oh well. . .obviously I am incorrect about some people.
mh
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 12:14 PM, Michael S. Hart <hart@pglaf.org> wrote:
Never bought the same movie twice?
Never bought the same piece of music twice?
Other than accidentally? No. Why would I do that? I might buy a new DVD with new commentary, or a higher-fidelity version of the same piece of music, but those offer me something new. I'm not going to run around rebuying my DVD collection in Blu-Ray or PSP when I have a perfectly good DVD copy. And Apple isn't bothering to offer me something better. It's like Ford having a proprietary audio system that's no better then CDs; why would that encourage me to buy a Ford? -- Kie ekzistas vivo, ekzistas espero.
On Tue, 1 Feb 2011, David Starner wrote:
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 12:14 PM, Michael S. Hart <hart@pglaf.org> wrote:
Never bought the same movie twice?
Never bought the same piece of music twice?
Other than accidentally? No. Why would I do that? I might buy a new DVD with new commentary, or a higher-fidelity version of the same piece of music, but those offer me something new.
Never the same one on vinyl, or tape, or CD or any other formats? BTW, CD is les hi-fi than vinyl.
Just playing around with Amazon's Kindle Previewer -- which is a desktop program which does a better job of emulating the limitations of the various Kindle devices -- and I notice that you can ask it to display an EPUB file, in which case it compiles that file into MOBI format for display -- and tells you where it cached the MOBI file. http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?ie=UTF8&docId=1000234621 Now if we book developers only had a reliable way to compile HTML to EPUB -- so that we can preview what our HTML will look like on EPUB and MOBI devices. I know Calibre can do this, but it doesn't JUST do it -- Calibre also munches on the translation.
Never bought the same piece of music twice?
FWIW I don't buy music, I rent it. Paper books which I buy I resell once I am done. Movies that I go to -- once is more than enough thank you very much! Not sure that there needs to be one model of "ownership" -- the market is quick to dump marketeers who get it wrong.
On Wed, 2 Feb 2011, Jim Adcock wrote:
Never bought the same piece of music twice?
FWIW I don't buy music, I rent it.
Always? Never buy any. . .I kind doubt that, but I'm listening.
Paper books which I buy I resell once I am done.
Always, never wanted to keep some? Sounds kinda like you're renting them, too.
Movies that I go to -- once is more than enough thank you very much!
Never took someone to see something you really liked? Never went back to see an oldie? Wow! You certainly must live in "the present." What about clothes? Ever bought the same thing twice?
Not sure that there needs to be one model of "ownership" -- the market is quick to dump marketeers who get it wrong.
You mean like the original DIVX DVDs??? mh
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FWIW I don't buy music, I rent it.
Always?
Haven't bought music in years.
Paper books which I buy I resell once I am done.
Always, never wanted to keep some?
If I want to keep it that's because I'm not done with it.
Movies that I go to -- once is more than enough thank you very much!
Never took someone to see something you really liked?
Nope.
Never went back to see an oldie?
Nope.
Wow!
Sorry, life is too short, and there are too many things I want to do.
You certainly must live in "the present."
Well, except when I'm working on PG books, in which case I'm living 80+ years in the past....
Ever bought the same thing twice?
Bread, eggs, milk...
quick to dump marketeers who get it wrong.
You mean like the original DIVX DVDs???
Good analogy to Apple!
Am 01.02.2011 um 17:19 schrieb Marcello Perathoner:
On 02/01/2011 04:32 PM, Keith J. Schultz wrote:
You are slamming Apple because they will not support a product from the competition, that is they(Sony) sell their products directly through Apple devices.
I'm not slamming Apple. Why bother? They are doing it so well themselves.
I can buy an ebook from Amazon and then:
- read it on the Kindle: YES - read it on Windows Desktop: YES - read it on Windows Phone: YES - read it on Android: YES - read it on Blackberry: YES - read it on iOS: NO (have to buy it again, giving Apple a 30% cut.) Go do your homework on this ! You are wrong!!
regards Keith.
On the other side Apple is in the business of selling books. Why should they support others without getting a piece of the cake. I guess Apple is, also, dumb because they do not sell the SONY and Kindle at the Apple Stores.
How would you respond if Microsoft acted to use the monopoly positions which Microsoft holds to force booksellers to all give Microsoft a "piece of the cake?" We should all be very afraid when any Billionaire -- be it Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Robert Murdoch, or the Koch Brothers -- acts to use their powers to block our access to the information we want, from the publisher we choose.
HeH Jim, M$ already has had its monopolies and nobody even complained. Do you not know what deal Gates had, to become a billionaire. I am not worried about it. The argumentation is flawed. Non-DRM epubs can be loaded onto iOS devices. Go for PG. Apple is saying if you offer content outside the App store then you have to offer content through the App store. So it is not Apple restricting access. It is up to the makers of those Apps to decide on what devices the want their content on. As far the Kindle is concerned, we must wait and see what happens! In case you are wondering, I have not boughten M$ products in 10 years and very happy. Waiting for the iPad to reach my needs in specs. But, maybe it will never get there. Definitely, will not buy just as a reader. Though Apples reader offers more than the others. regards Keith. Am 02.02.2011 um 22:28 schrieb Jim Adcock:
On the other side Apple is in the business of selling books. Why should they support others without getting a piece of the cake. I guess Apple is, also, dumb because they do not sell the SONY and Kindle at the Apple Stores.
How would you respond if Microsoft acted to use the monopoly positions which Microsoft holds to force booksellers to all give Microsoft a "piece of the cake?"
We should all be very afraid when any Billionaire -- be it Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Robert Murdoch, or the Koch Brothers -- acts to use their powers to block our access to the information we want, from the publisher we choose.
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On 02/03/2011 11:29 AM, Keith J. Schultz wrote:
Apple is saying if you offer content outside the App store then you have to offer content through the App store.
Apple is saying that they want a 30% cut of everything you buy on an iPhone. Even if you don't buy it thru the app store. I can accept a 30% commission for buying thru the app store, because in that case apple is offering a service, and that ought to be paid too. But I cannot accept a 30% tax on so-called `in-app-purchases´ that bypass the app store completely. Apple is extorting a tax for doing nothing at all. Would you accept Ford taking a 30% tax on all gasoline you buy from Exxon? -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org
Those of us who have been contemplating picking up a "cheap" Android device may have noticed a problem: Many of the inexpensive devices have not themselves included the Android Marketplace app for Android, trying instead to tie one to some cheap vendor-specific marketplace selling inferior apps at higher prices. Google has now "Opened Up" the Android Marketplace by offering it directly from your desktop or laptop computer, at: http://market.android.com In specific, many well-known reader apps for Android can be found at: http://market.android.com/apps/BOOKS_AND_REFERENCE/ And/or you can search on the name of an Android-compatible reader app you know of, such as "Kindle." Disclaimer: personally, I don't own an Android device yet, and haven't decided whether to go for a "cheap" Android device, or wait for an Android 3 "tab centric" version such as the Motorola Xoom -- nor have I even decided whether I personally want to support say hypothetically a self-proclaimed "What Me Evil?" company who steals "orphan" copyrights, and who places copypiratical "legalese" on long-out-of-copyright works, not to mention who makes unauthorized derivative works out of copyright websites, including PG.
M$ already has had its monopolies and nobody even complained.
Certainly NOT true that no one ever complained about the MS monopolies. There have been legal complaints about MS monopolistic behavior yearly for at least the last 30 years, I would guess -- starting with DOS and the boot-loaders. Most recently the EU has won many cases against MS in the European courts, including many about that infamous "ebook reader software" known as Internet Explorer. The only difference I see is that Jobs keeps getting away with it.
Do your home work! What was that deal that had MS-Dos be on IBM computers or at least IBM had to royalties for that computer even if DOS was not installed! How do you think he got so rich. Keith. Am 03.02.2011 um 16:58 schrieb Jim Adcock:
M$ already has had its monopolies and nobody even complained.
Certainly NOT true that no one ever complained about the MS monopolies. There have been legal complaints about MS monopolistic behavior yearly for at least the last 30 years, I would guess -- starting with DOS and the boot-loaders. Most recently the EU has won many cases against MS in the European courts, including many about that infamous "ebook reader software" known as Internet Explorer.
The only difference I see is that Jobs keeps getting away with it.
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Do your home work! What was that deal that had MS-Dos be on IBM computers or at least IBM had to royalties for that computer even if DOS was not installed! How do you think he got so rich.
Take a deep breath. I am not defending Microsoft, nor Apple, nor any of the big players. All I am saying is that it easy for one to look up the history of this issue and one will find that it is certainly NOT true that no one has complained about Microsoft's behavior. Legal complaints have been going on since almost the start, and continue to this day, particularly in the European courts.
Jim to get back to the original argument. Apple is not doing anything covert! They state their terms quite clearly. It is up to the consumer to decide what they want. Also, it is not up to Apple to make kindle books available on their products. Do not buy a ticket to a concert in New York and expect to go to one in Chicago. Did Apple say you can read ebooks for kindle. Did kindle say the ebooks you buy can be used on a iOS device! So why is Marcello complaining. He bought a mobile reader and perfers not to use it and use his phone instead ! Apple is not monopolizing. They are in business. If you do not like their business do not do business with them. regards Keith. P.S. Where are the legal complaints against Apple? At least as far as monopolizing is concerned. case closed. Am 04.02.2011 um 19:15 schrieb Jim Adcock:
Do your home work! What was that deal that had MS-Dos be on IBM computers or at least IBM had to royalties for that computer even if DOS was not installed! How do you think he got so rich.
Take a deep breath.
I am not defending Microsoft, nor Apple, nor any of the big players. All I am saying is that it easy for one to look up the history of this issue and one will find that it is certainly NOT true that no one has complained about Microsoft's behavior. Legal complaints have been going on since almost the start, and continue to this day, particularly in the European courts.
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yOn Fri, 4 Feb 2011, Keith J. Schultz wrote:
Jim to get back to the original argument. Apple is not doing anything covert! They state their terms quite clearly. It is up to the consumer to decide what they want.
Also, it is not up to Apple to make kindle books available on their products.
Do not buy a ticket to a concert in New York and expect to go to one in Chicago.
But it's fair to complain that you want to go to concerts in Chicago and whoever it is won't play there. . . . Did Apple say you can read ebooks for kindle.
Did kindle say the ebooks you buy can be used on a iOS device!
So why is Marcello complaining. He bought a mobile reader and perfers not to use it and use his phone instead !
Apple is not monopolizing. They are in business. If you do not like their business do not do business with them.
regards Keith.
P.S. Where are the legal complaints against Apple? At least as far as monopolizing is concerned. case closed.
Am 04.02.2011 um 19:15 schrieb Jim Adcock:
Do your home work! What was that deal that had MS-Dos be on IBM computers or at least IBM had to royalties for that computer even if DOS was not installed! How do you think he got so rich.
Take a deep breath.
I am not defending Microsoft, nor Apple, nor any of the big players. All I am saying is that it easy for one to look up the history of this issue and one will find that it is certainly NOT true that no one has complained about Microsoft's behavior. Legal complaints have been going on since almost the start, and continue to this day, particularly in the European courts.
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But it's fair to complain that you want to go to concerts in Chicago and whoever it is won't play there. . . .
Not just Apple but many of the big players are playing a game where the customer buys a ticket to Chicago but then the airplane changes destinations while the passengers are in mid-air. This used to be called a hijacking, but nowadays it doesn't even cause notice.
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 7:32 AM, Keith J. Schultz <schultzk@uni-trier.de> wrote:
You are slamming Apple because they will not support a product from the competition
If they don't support a product I want, what difference does it make? When I buy a computer, I go to companies that don't lock me in to buying only hardware from them. Dell offers computers that you can add after-market hard drives and memory to, instead of forcing you to turn to Dell for that. That's because sometimes if you don't support products from the competition, the consumer won't buy from you. -- Kie ekzistas vivo, ekzistas espero.
On Wed, 2 Feb 2011, David Starner wrote:
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 7:32 AM, Keith J. Schultz <schultzk@uni-trier.de> wrote:
You are slamming Apple because they will not support a product from the competition
If they don't support a product I want, what difference does it make? When I buy a computer, I go to companies that don't lock me in to buying only hardware from them. Dell offers computers that you can add after-market hard drives and memory to, instead of forcing you to turn to Dell for that. That's because sometimes if you don't support products from the competition, the consumer won't buy from you.
Lots of computer [and other] companies have tried that LOCK IN approach. I'm trying to think of one that was ever successful. . . . Oh, yes. "Standard" Oil. . .it wasn't standard, so the free or cheap lantern you got with your first purchase wouldn't work with anything else. I'm sure people will come up with other examples: cables light bulbs car parts bullet calibers
participants (6)
-
David Starner -
don kretz -
Jim Adcock -
Keith J. Schultz -
Marcello Perathoner -
Michael S. Hart