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Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 18:35:27 EST From: Gutenberg9443@aol.com To: hart@pobox.com Subject: Re: Project Googleberg
First and foremost, when composing email, the best place for your text is in the the _body_ of the email, not sent as an attachment (a non-RFC-compliant attachment at that). Please don't do that.
I have examined what seems to be the preliminary "Googleprint" catalog. It consists of books scanned and posted by other people including us. At least half of them that I looked at are available only as page scans, and I have to want a book an awful lot to put page scans together just for my own use. They use a LOT of our books; in fact, everything they have that they are aware we have shows us as the best or only site to go and get the book.
Second, when you wish to post to a mailing list about a particular subject, it is best to read the archives first, in full, so you can see if the subject or question you were about to ask has been discussed before, as this one has. Please go back and re-read the archives of the last few weeks to bring yourself up to speed on the issues, concerns, support, and other items related to "Google Print". David A. Desrosiers desrod@gnu-designs.com http://gnu-designs.com
Hey, who put David D. in charge of the Internet?! David, if you can't cope with the way other people do things on the 'net, you'd better save yourself a lot of grief and leave now. Or you could try a little tolerance, and accept that some people, not having your supreme level of skill, will occasionally do "the wrong thing". Get over it man, and while I'm on your case, get some manners. Sheesh. Merry Christmas all. Steve David A. Desrosiers wrote:
[ Part 2: "Included Message" ]
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 18:35:27 EST From: Gutenberg9443@aol.com To: hart@pobox.com Subject: Re: Project Googleberg
First and foremost, when composing email, the best place for your text is in the the _body_ of the email, not sent as an attachment (a non-RFC-compliant attachment at that).
Please don't do that.
I have examined what seems to be the preliminary "Googleprint" catalog. It consists of books scanned and posted by other people including us. At least half of them that I looked at are available only as page scans, and I have to want a book an awful lot to put page scans together just for my own use. They use a LOT of our books; in fact, everything they have that they are aware we have shows us as the best or only site to go and get the book.
Second, when you wish to post to a mailing list about a particular subject, it is best to read the archives first, in full, so you can see if the subject or question you were about to ask has been discussed before, as this one has.
Please go back and re-read the archives of the last few weeks to bring yourself up to speed on the issues, concerns, support, and other items related to "Google Print".
David A. Desrosiers desrod@gnu-designs.com http://gnu-designs.com _______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d
-- Stephen Thomas, Senior Systems Analyst, University of Adelaide Library UNIVERSITY OF ADELAIDE SA 5005 AUSTRALIA Phone: +61 8 830 35190 Fax: +61 8 830 34369 Email: stephen.thomas@adelaide.edu.au URL: http://staff.library.adelaide.edu.au/~sthomas/ CRICOS Provider Number 00123M ----------------------------------------------------------- This email message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains information that may be confidential and/or copyright. If you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender by reply email and immediately delete this email. Use, disclosure or reproduction of this email by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. No representation is made that this email or any attachments are free of viruses. Virus scanning is recommended and is the responsibility of the recipient.
if you can't cope with the way other people do things on the 'net, you'd better save yourself a lot of grief and leave now.
Its important for others to realize that not everyone reads their email on desktop machines, or on fully-featured email clients. What about text-to-speech readers and PDAs? Its best to stick to the standards, and not make up your own. Open your eyes, and realize the world isn't just like you.
Or you could try a little tolerance, and accept that some people, not having your supreme level of skill, will occasionally do "the wrong thing".
I find this to be the case in a lot of things, unfortunately.
Get over it man, and while I'm on your case, get some manners.
I've got plenty of manners, but thanks for pointing it out to others who may not have the same "supreme" level of diplomacy that I often exhibit. Google for my name, if you feel I'm some sort of rude person without manners. You might be surprised at what you find.
Sheesh. Merry Christmas all.
Happy Christmahanakwanzaka to all as well. David A. Desrosiers desrod@gnu-designs.com http://gnu-designs.com
Gutenberg9443@aol.com wrote:
By the way, does ANYBODY know where we can get a public domain copy of Ibn Batuta? I've had no luck finding one online. I even asked the king of Saudi Arabia for a copy, but His Majesty didn't answer. The few snippets I've seen are fascinating. He left his home to go on a haj, and then kept going, spending 29 years travelling and writing fascinating notes of where he went, namely everywhere you could get to without going to Arctica, Antarctica, or the Americas.
I have to agree with Anne. Every time I hear about Ibn Batuta's amazing travels, I feel the urge to read his writings. Is there any chance we could get them online as part of Gutenberg's collection? Cheers, Holden
The Library of Congress doesn't list anything before 1929. The British Library shows: Author - personal Batūta, Ibn. Title The travels of Ibn Batūta : translated from the abridged manuscript copies, preserved in the public library of Cambridge with notes, illustrative of the history, geography, botany, antiquities, &c. occurring through the work / by Samuel Lee. Publisher/year London : Darf, 1984, 1829. Added name Lee, Samuel. holdings (1) All items Holdings (BL) 89/27495 DSC Request ISBN 1850770352 Good Luck. Thx, steve h sharris@steveharris.net
-----Original Message----- From: gutvol-d-bounces@lists.pglaf.org [mailto:gutvol-d-bounces@lists.pglaf.org] On Behalf Of Holden McGroin Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 8:04 PM To: Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion Subject: [gutvol-d] Ibn Batuta (Was Re: Fwd: Project Googleberg)
Gutenberg9443@aol.com wrote:
By the way, does ANYBODY know where we can get a public domain copy of Ibn Batuta? I've had no luck finding one online. I even asked the king of Saudi Arabia for a copy, but His Majesty didn't answer. The few snippets I've seen are fascinating. He left his home to go on a haj, and then kept going, spending 29 years travelling and writing fascinating notes of where he went, namely everywhere you could get to without going to Arctica, Antarctica, or the Americas.
I have to agree with Anne. Every time I hear about Ibn Batuta's amazing travels, I feel the urge to read his writings. Is there any chance we could get them online as part of Gutenberg's collection?
Cheers, Holden _______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d
On 04:55:10 steve harris wrote:
The Library of Congress doesn't list anything before 1929.
Good Luck.
It's not as bad as all that. The Lee translation (1829) is available pretty easily. Amazon.com has an edition for $12. Look for ISBN 0486437655. There was a 1940s re-print of the Lee translation that seems to go for $60 used. The French 1859 translation by Defremery and Sanguinetti is based on more/better source material - but I don't read French. ============================================================ Gardner Buchanan <gbuchana@rogers.com> Ottawa, ON FreeBSD: Where you want to go. Today.
On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 22:41:10 -0500 (EST), Gardner Buchanan <gbuchana@rogers.com> wrote: | | On 04:55:10 steve harris wrote: | > The Library of Congress doesn't list anything before 1929. | > | > | > Good Luck. | > | | It's not as bad as all that. The Lee translation (1829) is available | pretty easily. Amazon.com has an edition for $12. Look for ISBN | 0486437655. There was a 1940s re-print of the Lee translation that | seems to go for $60 used. | | The French 1859 translation by Defremery and Sanguinetti is based | on more/better source material - but I don't read French. The original ?Arabic? would be nice. -- Dave F
steve harris wrote:
The Library of Congress doesn't list anything before 1929. The British Library shows:
Author - personal Batūta, Ibn. Title The travels of Ibn Batūta : translated from the abridged manuscript copies, preserved in the public library of Cambridge with notes, illustrative of the history, geography, botany, antiquities, &c. occurring through the work / by Samuel Lee. Publisher/year London : Darf, 1984, 1829. Added name Lee, Samuel. holdings (1) All items Holdings (BL) 89/27495 DSC Request ISBN 1850770352
Hi! Thanks for the info. I've really wanted to read Ibn Batuta for a while now so perhaps this is the golden opportunity to finally get a PG version in motion. So, does anybody have any experience ordering copies of whole books from the British Library? I'd love to do it (obviously, depending on price) if it's at all possible :-) Cheers, Holden
On Sat, 25 Dec 2004, Holden McGroin wrote:
Thanks for the info. I've really wanted to read Ibn Batuta for a while now so perhaps this is the golden opportunity to finally get a PG version in motion. So, does anybody have any experience ordering copies of whole books from the British Library? I'd love to do it (obviously, depending on price) if it's at all possible :-)
Hmmm... you may not need to go that far afield. It looks as if there is a reprint in the University Library in my city (Victoria, British Columbia) and given that it was published in New York, I'd expect you could find it in some American cities... Here's a full record: Author/Creator: Ibn Batuta, 1304-1377. Other Author/Creator(s): Lee, Samuel, 1783-1852. Title: The travels of Ibn Batuta. Translated from the abridged Arabic manuscript copies, preserved in the Public Library of Cambridge. With notes illustrative of the history, geography, botany, antiquities, occurring throughout the work, by Samuel Lee. Uniform Title: Tuhfat al-nuzzar English. 1971 , _________________________________________________________________ Database: University of Victoria Libraries Location: McPherson Library Call Number: G370 I23 Number of Items: 1 Status: In Library Subject(s): Voyages and travels Africa--Description and travel--To 1900 Asia--Description and travel Published: New York, B. Franklin [1971] Description: xviii, 243 p. 24 cm. Series: Burt Franklin research & source works series, 817 Geography and discovery, 13 Notes: Reprint of the 1829 ed. Translation of Tuhfat al-nuzzar. ISBN: 0833720511
On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 23:15:50 +0000, Holden McGroin <holden.mcgroin@dsl.pipex.com> wrote: | Thanks for the info. I've really wanted to read Ibn Batuta for a while | now so perhaps this is the golden opportunity to finally get a PG | version in motion. So, does anybody have any experience ordering copies | of whole books from the British Library? I'd love to do it (obviously, | depending on price) if it's at all possible :-) It all depends where the copy is stored. If it is in London, forget it, you can not borrow it, you must get readership permission and consult it there. If it is in Boston Spa, you can consult it at Boston Spa but it takes some time to get it from storage so organize yourself first. It is far easier to get things via your local library. Fill in a request form, and they will first look for an ordinary local library copy, and failing this they will get a copy from Boston Spa. ************ BEWARE THE BL FINES SYSTEM THEY ARE HORRENDOUS ********** -- Dave F
On Fri, 24 Dec 2004, Holden McGroin wrote:
I have to agree with Anne. Every time I hear about Ibn Batuta's amazing travels, I feel the urge to read his writings. Is there any chance we could get them online as part of Gutenberg's collection?
Of course there is. I believe it would just be a matter of how much effort and expense some volunteers would like to go to in order to make it happen. Oh, and a bit of luck too. After reading what I could find about Ibn Batuta, I agree, this could be worth searching out... (I would imagine in an english translation) Andrew
Andrew Sly wrote:
On Fri, 24 Dec 2004, Holden McGroin wrote:
I have to agree with Anne. Every time I hear about Ibn Batuta's amazing travels, I feel the urge to read his writings. Is there any chance we could get them online as part of Gutenberg's collection?
Of course there is. I believe it would just be a matter of how much effort and expense some volunteers would like to go to in order to make it happen. Oh, and a bit of luck too.
After reading what I could find about Ibn Batuta, I agree, this could be worth searching out... (I would imagine in an english translation)
The 1829 English translation by (Reverend) Samuel Lee looks like the best bet: The Travels of Ibn Batuta; Translated from the Abridged Arabic Manuscript Copies, preserved in the Public Library of Cambridge. Translated by Rev. Samuel Lee. London: Printed for the Oriental Translation Committee, 1829 I see a couple of 1985 re-prints going for ~$60US. The Gibb translation is too new. It looks like it was published in the 50s or so. Gibb lived until 1971. ============================================================ Gardner Buchanan <gbuchana@rogers.com> Ottawa, ON FreeBSD: Where you want to go. Today.
Hi all, So after all the enthusiastic chatter about this in December, I'm a little surprised two months later to find myself the first mover, but here I am. I splashed out $12 for a facsimile edition of the 1829 Lee translation from Amazon, and yesterday I got hold of it. I've submitted it for clearance and will do the scans as time permits. I intend to push the scans into a DP project versus trying to handle it myself. There will be difficulty however: this is a scholarly translation and is full of footnotes, pronunciation notation and is stuffed with arabic passages. Have a look at a sample here: http://unixcomputer.net/new-photo/cd/p12.gif Anyone got ideas or suggestions for handling this sort of material? See you, On 04:04:10 Holden McGroin wrote:
Gutenberg9443@aol.com wrote:
By the way, does ANYBODY know where we can get a public domain copy of Ibn Batuta? I've had no luck finding one online. I even asked the king of Saudi Arabia for a copy, but His Majesty didn't answer. The few snippets I've seen are fascinating. He left his home to go on a haj, and then kept going, spending 29 years travelling and writing fascinating notes of where he went, namely everywhere you could get to without going to Arctica, Antarctica, or the Americas.
I have to agree with Anne. Every time I hear about Ibn Batuta's amazing travels, I feel the urge to read his writings. Is there any chance we could get them online as part of Gutenberg's collection?
============================================================ Gardner Buchanan <gbuchana@rogers.com> Ottawa, ON FreeBSD: Where you want to go. Today.
Footnotes should not be a problem for DP, we handle them all the time. Arabic is another question. An html edition could certainly be made, with the help of someone who knows arabic to do those transcriptions, and a transcriber's note added that to view the arabic text, an arabic font must be installed. An ascii text would just be plaintext of course and therefore incomplete, but there could be a transcriber's note in that edition too, pointing the reader to the html edition for the complete text. Many at DP are not scared by the thought of a scholarly work or making faithful renditions of them. Some even relish the challenge. With the collaboration of a speaker of Arabic, whether someone at DP or elsewhere, such a project could be reliably done at DP. On DP, la_joconde On PG, Melissa Er-Raqabi (you may search my name at pgdp.net. Some of my recent uploads for Black History Month are non-fiction works with transcriber's notes. Higher project numbers are obviously more recent.) --Melissa Gardner Buchanan <gbuchana@rogers.com> wrote: Hi all, So after all the enthusiastic chatter about this in December, I'm a little surprised two months later to find myself the first mover, but here I am. I splashed out $12 for a facsimile edition of the 1829 Lee translation from Amazon, and yesterday I got hold of it. I've submitted it for clearance and will do the scans as time permits. I intend to push the scans into a DP project versus trying to handle it myself. There will be difficulty however: this is a scholarly translation and is full of footnotes, pronunciation notation and is stuffed with arabic passages. Have a look at a sample here: http://unixcomputer.net/new-photo/cd/p12.gif Anyone got ideas or suggestions for handling this sort of material? See you, On 04:04:10 Holden McGroin wrote:
Gutenberg9443@aol.com wrote:
By the way, does ANYBODY know where we can get a public domain copy of Ibn Batuta? I've had no luck finding one online. I even asked the king of Saudi Arabia for a copy, but His Majesty didn't answer. The few snippets I've seen are fascinating. He left his home to go on a haj, and then kept going, spending 29 years travelling and writing fascinating notes of where he went, namely everywhere you could get to without going to Arctica, Antarctica, or the Americas.
I have to agree with Anne. Every time I hear about Ibn Batuta's amazing travels, I feel the urge to read his writings. Is there any chance we could get them online as part of Gutenberg's collection?
============================================================ Gardner Buchanan Ottawa, ON FreeBSD: Where you want to go. Today. _______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d
On Wed, 23 Feb 2005, Gardner Buchanan wrote:
I splashed out $12 for a facsimile edition of the 1829 Lee translation from Amazon, and yesterday I got hold of it. I've submitted it for clearance and will do the scans as time permits. I intend to push the scans into a DP project versus trying to handle it myself. There will be difficulty however: this is a scholarly translation and is full of footnotes, pronunciation notation and is stuffed with arabic passages.
Do put it through DP-EU (the European Distributed Proofreaders). They are using Unicode and can handle Arabic text. In fact, they were or are doing some Urdu texts in Arabic script. -- Karen Lofstrom Zora on DP
participants (10)
-
Andrew Sly -
Dave Fawthrop -
David A. Desrosiers -
Gardner Buchanan -
Gutenberg9443＠aol.com -
Holden McGroin -
Karen Lofstrom -
Melissa -
steve harris -
Steve Thomas