Re: Typesetting ("gods and fighting men")
jim said:
All I can do is shrug my shoulders, and suggest that others on this forum go try it for themselves, and see what happens to them.
i will be buying an ipad as soon as the lines go down and i know i can walk in an apple store and walk out with one. i expect that i will be able to load .epubs onto the thing quite easily, simply by going through the itunes store... if i have any problems doing that, i will let people know. but i expect there will be no problems. and if people ask me why _you_ had problems doing it, i'll shrug _my_ shoulders, and mumble something about how you had some objection about doing things that way. -bowerbird
i expect that i will be able to load .epubs onto the thing quite easily, simply by going through the itunes store...
Do me a favor and see what you can do with it using wifi and without feeding Apple your credit card number, nor signing up for one of the "Company Store" accounts: aka iTunes, iBooks, nor the App Store. In my experience it is a "boat anchor" as far as reading books are concerned until one feeds Apple one's credit card number - one can however "read online web connected" in txt or pdf format using the included "Safari" stateless web browser - "stateless" meaning that the browser only remembers the latest txt or pdf one has read, one cannot use the web browser to save more than one "favorite" book and then come back and read it successfully later - unless one has an active wifi or 3G connection, or unless that's the last book read. But maybe you can figure out some tricks that I haven't been able to figure out re avoiding "The Company Store!" Also, see if you can figure out any way to load epub books from the PG site directly, via wifi, and without using a USB cable, nor by going through The Company Store. I haven't been able to figure out any way to use wifi to directly load a free epub book from an internet location of my choosing (such as directly from PG)
and if people ask me why _you_ had problems doing it, i'll shrug _my_ shoulders, and mumble something about
Again, *I* want to read what I want to read and where I want to read it from. And if *I* pay for wifi then I'd like to be able to use that wifi to do this--god forbid! What I consistently see is a pattern of the makers of ebook readers crippling the use of wifi to keep the user from acquiring and reading books from wherever they want to get those books. What I see is the makers only really allowing the wifi to be used to acquire books and documents when purchasing from the official company store (or licensee) of that maker. Also, *I* want to be able to take a non-DRM aka "Free" book off my machine and give it to a friend and have that friend be able to read that "Free" book. I also want to be able to create books, and applications, and freely share those books and applications with my friends, and not have to ask The Corporation's permission to share my creations, nor have The Corporation limit my distribution to only my 100 closest friends. In short I would like to retain my first amendment rights, and not flush them down the toilet with my choice of reader machine. I would also like to retain my freedom of political expression in these matters, and not have The Corporation decide what political speech they will allow on my machine, nor what political speech I can choose to distribute, etc. And I would like to be able to use wifi to do these things, not just a USB umbilical cord. Again, netbooks already allow me to do all these things, so it is not like I am asking for anything that is technically impossible, nor anything that keeps one or another ebook maker from earning an honest buck, its just that the packaging of the keyboard with the netbook is an awkward packaging choice for an "ebook reader" IMHO. And the Toshiba Portege already allows all these things without a keyboard and with a touchscreen display, its just that it's a bit heavy and a *bit* expensive at $1500 bucks! But I will happily put up with a netbook's limitation rather than have The Corporation tell me what I am allowed to read and from where! And it doesn't matter WHO "The Corporation" is!
On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 07:10:41PM -0700, James Adcock wrote:
i expect that i will be able to load .epubs onto the thing quite easily, simply by going through the itunes store...
Do me a favor and see what you can do with it using wifi and without feeding Apple your credit card number, nor signing up for one of the "Company Store" accounts: aka iTunes, iBooks, nor the App Store. In my experience it is a "boat anchor" as far as reading books are concerned until one feeds Apple one's credit card number - one can however "read online web connected" in txt or pdf format using the included "Safari" stateless web browser - "stateless" meaning that the browser only remembers the latest txt or pdf one has read, one cannot use the web browser to save more than one "favorite" book and then come back and read it successfully later - unless one has an active wifi or 3G connection, or unless that's the last book read. But maybe you can figure out some tricks that I haven't been able to figure out re avoiding "The Company Store!"
I have tried to do the things Jim suggests, on iPad, iPhone and iPod touch. As far as I know, these cannot be done without going through iTunes on a host computer: - get a .epub file from gutenberg.org or elsewhere to display (Safari cannot do it. Any other ePub apps, such as Wattpad or Stanza, don't come with the device and need to come from the store via iTunes) - getting an .epub file that you have somehow managed to get on your iPad/etc. device off of that device, to share with others, without going through iTunes. In the Apple universe, I think that getting content from the iPad/etc. is not the model. The model is to have a fully-featured computer with iTunes be the "host" for the device, and any exchange/sharing/ syncing of content goes through that device. So, for example, I have some books in these three apps: Stanza, GoodReader and Wattpad. They're free PG eBooks, via those application's interfaces. To get the APPS, I needed iTunes. But once the app was installed, I could go to their own store (or whatever you want to call it) via free WiFi or cellular network or however I'm connected. Books or other files downloaded to those apps would come in via the device. So, I could use my iPhone to run Stanza, and get a copy of a book on the iPhone. THEN, when I connected the iPhone to my host computer with iTunes, and allowed syncing to other devices, the app & book would then appear on those other devices: the computer, the iPhone, and, say, the iPad. (The iBooks app, of course, is only on iPad. Similarly, there are some apps that won't run on all device types.) On the host computer, the PG *file* could be copied out of iTunes, and manipulated/sent like any other file. Similarly, I could put ePub files or others into iTunes. How to play/view them from the iPhone, I do not yet know since apps like Stanza and Wattpad only seem to see what came in from their own storefronts, not other sources. Basically, FILES seem to need to be tied to APPS for display. Fundamentally, a. You need iTunes to get any new apps on your computer; b. You need an Apple iTunes store account, before iTunes will let you load any apps -- even free ones! Can you provide some sort of fake info to the Apple iTunes store to get activated? Maybe. That would open the store, but you'd still need iTunes at least to get started. Are there apps that make it possible to add a file to what an app sees (so, say, Stanza will see a .epub)? Maybe, but I think this is something the app would need to permit. Finally, I have been reading about the Apple SDK for all of this. They are intentionally prohibiting most forms of inter-app communication that we are used to seeing on fully-featured computers. This is why Firefox, which relies on plugins for full functionality, might not appear on these devices. It's also why (I think) Safari cannot launch an external ePub reader program. Instead, somewhat incredibly, when you use your iPhone's Safari to click on an .epub file at www.gutenberg.org, it tells you it cannot open that file. -- Greg
Also, see if you can figure out any way to load epub books from the PG site directly, via wifi, and without using a USB cable, nor by going through The Company Store. I haven't been able to figure out any way to use wifi to directly load a free epub book from an internet location of my choosing (such as directly from PG)
and if people ask me why _you_ had problems doing it, i'll shrug _my_ shoulders, and mumble something about
Again, *I* want to read what I want to read and where I want to read it from. And if *I* pay for wifi then I'd like to be able to use that wifi to do this--god forbid! What I consistently see is a pattern of the makers of ebook readers crippling the use of wifi to keep the user from acquiring and reading books from wherever they want to get those books. What I see is the makers only really allowing the wifi to be used to acquire books and documents when purchasing from the official company store (or licensee) of that maker.
Also, *I* want to be able to take a non-DRM aka "Free" book off my machine and give it to a friend and have that friend be able to read that "Free" book. I also want to be able to create books, and applications, and freely share those books and applications with my friends, and not have to ask The Corporation's permission to share my creations, nor have The Corporation limit my distribution to only my 100 closest friends. In short I would like to retain my first amendment rights, and not flush them down the toilet with my choice of reader machine. I would also like to retain my freedom of political expression in these matters, and not have The Corporation decide what political speech they will allow on my machine, nor what political speech I can choose to distribute, etc. And I would like to be able to use wifi to do these things, not just a USB umbilical cord.
Again, netbooks already allow me to do all these things, so it is not like I am asking for anything that is technically impossible, nor anything that keeps one or another ebook maker from earning an honest buck, its just that the packaging of the keyboard with the netbook is an awkward packaging choice for an "ebook reader" IMHO. And the Toshiba Portege already allows all these things without a keyboard and with a touchscreen display, its just that it's a bit heavy and a *bit* expensive at $1500 bucks! But I will happily put up with a netbook's limitation rather than have The Corporation tell me what I am allowed to read and from where! And it doesn't matter WHO "The Corporation" is!
_______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/mailman/listinfo/gutvol-d
Using only the included mail program on my Ipod touch, I can read attachment files (only txt and pdf are viewable with included viewers). But they are sent wifi from my router. No cables. And there is a way to set up your desktop box as a server for "ereader" A free program from itunes. Dan Weber -----Original Message----- From: gutvol-d-bounces@lists.pglaf.org [mailto:gutvol-d-bounces@lists.pglaf.org] On Behalf Of Greg Newby Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 3:11 PM To: Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: Typesetting ("gods and fighting men") On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 07:10:41PM -0700, James Adcock wrote:
i expect that i will be able to load .epubs onto the thing quite easily, simply by going through the itunes store...
Do me a favor and see what you can do with it using wifi and without
feeding
Apple your credit card number, nor signing up for one of the "Company Store" accounts: aka iTunes, iBooks, nor the App Store. In my experience it is a "boat anchor" as far as reading books are concerned until one feeds Apple one's credit card number - one can however "read online web connected" in txt or pdf format using the included "Safari" stateless web browser - "stateless" meaning that the browser only remembers the latest txt or pdf one has read, one cannot use the web browser to save more than one "favorite" book and then come back and read it successfully later - unless one has an active wifi or 3G connection, or unless that's the last book read. But maybe you can figure out some tricks that I haven't been able to figure out re avoiding "The Company Store!"
I have tried to do the things Jim suggests, on iPad, iPhone and iPod touch. As far as I know, these cannot be done without going through iTunes on a host computer: - get a .epub file from gutenberg.org or elsewhere to display (Safari cannot do it. Any other ePub apps, such as Wattpad or Stanza, don't come with the device and need to come from the store via iTunes) - getting an .epub file that you have somehow managed to get on your iPad/etc. device off of that device, to share with others, without going through iTunes. In the Apple universe, I think that getting content from the iPad/etc. is not the model. The model is to have a fully-featured computer with iTunes be the "host" for the device, and any exchange/sharing/ syncing of content goes through that device. So, for example, I have some books in these three apps: Stanza, GoodReader and Wattpad. They're free PG eBooks, via those application's interfaces. To get the APPS, I needed iTunes. But once the app was installed, I could go to their own store (or whatever you want to call it) via free WiFi or cellular network or however I'm connected. Books or other files downloaded to those apps would come in via the device. So, I could use my iPhone to run Stanza, and get a copy of a book on the iPhone. THEN, when I connected the iPhone to my host computer with iTunes, and allowed syncing to other devices, the app & book would then appear on those other devices: the computer, the iPhone, and, say, the iPad. (The iBooks app, of course, is only on iPad. Similarly, there are some apps that won't run on all device types.) On the host computer, the PG *file* could be copied out of iTunes, and manipulated/sent like any other file. Similarly, I could put ePub files or others into iTunes. How to play/view them from the iPhone, I do not yet know since apps like Stanza and Wattpad only seem to see what came in from their own storefronts, not other sources. Basically, FILES seem to need to be tied to APPS for display. Fundamentally, a. You need iTunes to get any new apps on your computer; b. You need an Apple iTunes store account, before iTunes will let you load any apps -- even free ones! Can you provide some sort of fake info to the Apple iTunes store to get activated? Maybe. That would open the store, but you'd still need iTunes at least to get started. Are there apps that make it possible to add a file to what an app sees (so, say, Stanza will see a .epub)? Maybe, but I think this is something the app would need to permit. Finally, I have been reading about the Apple SDK for all of this. They are intentionally prohibiting most forms of inter-app communication that we are used to seeing on fully-featured computers. This is why Firefox, which relies on plugins for full functionality, might not appear on these devices. It's also why (I think) Safari cannot launch an external ePub reader program. Instead, somewhat incredibly, when you use your iPhone's Safari to click on an .epub file at www.gutenberg.org, it tells you it cannot open that file. -- Greg
Also, see if you can figure out any way to load epub books from the PG
directly, via wifi, and without using a USB cable, nor by going through The Company Store. I haven't been able to figure out any way to use wifi to directly load a free epub book from an internet location of my choosing (such as directly from PG)
and if people ask me why _you_ had problems doing it, i'll shrug _my_ shoulders, and mumble something about
Again, *I* want to read what I want to read and where I want to read it from. And if *I* pay for wifi then I'd like to be able to use that wifi to do this--god forbid! What I consistently see is a pattern of the makers of ebook readers crippling the use of wifi to keep the user from acquiring and reading books from wherever they want to get those books. What I see is
makers only really allowing the wifi to be used to acquire books and documents when purchasing from the official company store (or licensee) of that maker.
Also, *I* want to be able to take a non-DRM aka "Free" book off my machine and give it to a friend and have that friend be able to read that "Free" book. I also want to be able to create books, and applications, and freely share those books and applications with my friends, and not have to ask The Corporation's permission to share my creations, nor have The Corporation limit my distribution to only my 100 closest friends. In short I would
to retain my first amendment rights, and not flush them down the toilet with my choice of reader machine. I would also like to retain my freedom of political expression in these matters, and not have The Corporation decide what political speech they will allow on my machine, nor what political speech I can choose to distribute, etc. And I would like to be able to use wifi to do these things, not just a USB umbilical cord.
Again, netbooks already allow me to do all these things, so it is not like I am asking for anything that is technically impossible, nor anything that keeps one or another ebook maker from earning an honest buck, its just
site the like that
the packaging of the keyboard with the netbook is an awkward packaging choice for an "ebook reader" IMHO. And the Toshiba Portege already allows all these things without a keyboard and with a touchscreen display, its just that it's a bit heavy and a *bit* expensive at $1500 bucks! But I will happily put up with a netbook's limitation rather than have The Corporation tell me what I am allowed to read and from where! And it doesn't matter WHO "The Corporation" is!
_______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/mailman/listinfo/gutvol-d
_______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/mailman/listinfo/gutvol-d
James Adcock wrote:
i expect that i will be able to load .epubs onto the thing quite easily, simply by going through the itunes store...
Do me a favor and see what you can do with it using wifi and without feeding Apple your credit card number, nor signing up for one of the “Company Store” accounts: aka iTunes, iBooks, nor the App Store. In my experience it is a “boat anchor” as far as reading books are concerned until one feeds Apple one’s credit card number
You need iTunes at least once. So you need a Windows PC or Mac at least once. You can get an AppStore account without disclosing your credit card. (I did it.) I guess you can also use a fake identity to do that. There are how-to's on the net. Google for them. The gist is to try and download a free application before registering for the AppStore. Then you can download Stanza (for free) and inside Stanza you can download epubs (even from arbitrary urls if you want to).
Also, see if you can figure out any way to load epub books from the PG site directly, via wifi,
Get Stanza, then add m.gutenberg.org as book source. -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org
Anybody remember Apple rejecting the Eucalyptus eBook App because they figured out you could read the Kama Sutra with it? I downloaded the Opera Web Browser for iphone and it's rated 17+ because it "contains erotic scenes". -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org
participants (5)
-
Bowerbird＠aol.com -
Dan Weber -
Greg Newby -
James Adcock -
Marcello Perathoner