it's fun to watch rothman sputter when his dale-carnegie doubletalk isn't working in a certain situation... it's even more funny when he tries to pull it back from the edge, by finding "something that everyone can agree on", and engages in another dose of doubletalk. yes, david, we all agree that the government is bad when it extends copyright and tries to keep all of those shady dealings out of sight... and, by the way, isn't this the same government your "teleread" proposal wants to put in charge? michael hart didn't seek a grant to pay for the digitization of books under project gutenberg, or try to suck at the money teat of big business. hart went directly to the people. smart choice. -bowerbird