Could you please take private your ongoing discussions of whose penis is bigger? I signed up for this list to read discussions of Gutenberg by its volunteers. Or was I wrong about what the name of the list implies? There is just so much noise on this list that I'm tempted to unsubscribe AGAIN, and you know what? I'm a Gutenberg Volunteer, and this list could be a very useful one to me. But you both give me a headache. Jon, why don't you join Bowerbird's Yahoo Group, which seems not to have a lot of traffic, and you two can chat to your heart's content? Or is it having people watch that really turns you two on? Can you please be quiet, PLEASE?
Melissa Er-Raqabi wrote:
Could you please take private your ongoing discussions of whose penis is bigger? I signed up for this list to read discussions of Gutenberg by its volunteers. Or was I wrong about what the name of the list implies?
What about a new list for size wars? I see that gutvol-p, for gutvol-penis-wars, is already taken. I propose gutvol-t, for gutvol-testosterone. -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org
On Sat, May 14, 2005 at 06:04:17PM -0700, Melissa Er-Raqabi wrote:
Could you please take private your ongoing discussions of whose penis is bigger? I signed up for this list to read discussions of Gutenberg by its volunteers. Or was I wrong about what the name of the list implies?
There is just so much noise on this list that I'm tempted to unsubscribe AGAIN, and you know what? I'm a Gutenberg Volunteer, and this list could be a very useful one to me. But you both give me a headache. Jon, why don't you join Bowerbird's Yahoo Group, which seems not to have a lot of traffic, and you two can chat to your heart's content? Or is it having people watch that really turns you two on?
Can you please be quiet, PLEASE?
Thanks for trying, Melissa, but I'm afraid that neither Jon nor Bowerbird, in their very different ways, actually understand what we're doing here, so I'm afraid the only way to get our list back is to change the character of it, and limit membership to people who do, or impose very narrow moderation parameters. Greg, I will reluctantly now support a move in this direction. jim
On Sun, May 15, 2005 at 05:18:17PM -0400, Jim Tinsley wrote:
On Sat, May 14, 2005 at 06:04:17PM -0700, Melissa Er-Raqabi wrote:
Could you please take private your ongoing discussions of whose penis is bigger? I signed up for this list to read discussions of Gutenberg by its volunteers. Or was I wrong about what the name of the list implies?
There is just so much noise on this list that I'm tempted to unsubscribe AGAIN, and you know what? I'm a Gutenberg Volunteer, and this list could be a very useful one to me. But you both give me a headache. Jon, why don't you join Bowerbird's Yahoo Group, which seems not to have a lot of traffic, and you two can chat to your heart's content? Or is it having people watch that really turns you two on?
Can you please be quiet, PLEASE?
Thanks for trying, Melissa, but I'm afraid that neither Jon nor Bowerbird, in their very different ways, actually understand what we're doing here, so I'm afraid the only way to get our list back is to change the character of it, and limit membership to people who do, or impose very narrow moderation parameters.
Greg, I will reluctantly now support a move in this direction.
If we take this direction, next step is to basic form moderation guidelines and find at least two volunteer moderators (not me), who will provide rapid turnaroud time. gutvol-d is by far the most valuable general forum PG has, so we don't want to toss the baby with the bathwater. (Ok, maybe a few *particular* babies, already named :-) If someone knows of an easy way to block per-address messages from particular individuals via Mailman, please clue me in. This doesn't seem to be a feature of their "topics" facility. Personally, I simply don't read or respond to anything that Jon or BB writes, and haven't for quite some time. I guess we get enough newcomers to the lists that there is a constant influx of people willing to respond. I would use Procmail to filter such messages (all modern mail clients have similar filtering capability), and probably should, but since I get well over 600 spam messages in an average day just dump it with the rest of the crud. -- Greg
On Sun, May 15, 2005 at 02:39:26PM -0700, Greg Newby wrote:
On Sun, May 15, 2005 at 05:18:17PM -0400, Jim Tinsley wrote:
On Sat, May 14, 2005 at 06:04:17PM -0700, Melissa Er-Raqabi wrote:
Could you please take private your ongoing discussions of whose penis is bigger? I signed up for this list to read discussions of Gutenberg by its volunteers. Or was I wrong about what the name of the list implies?
There is just so much noise on this list that I'm tempted to unsubscribe AGAIN, and you know what? I'm a Gutenberg Volunteer, and this list could be a very useful one to me. But you both give me a headache. Jon, why don't you join Bowerbird's Yahoo Group, which seems not to have a lot of traffic, and you two can chat to your heart's content? Or is it having people watch that really turns you two on?
Can you please be quiet, PLEASE?
Thanks for trying, Melissa, but I'm afraid that neither Jon nor Bowerbird, in their very different ways, actually understand what we're doing here, so I'm afraid the only way to get our list back is to change the character of it, and limit membership to people who do, or impose very narrow moderation parameters.
Greg, I will reluctantly now support a move in this direction.
If we take this direction, next step is to basic form moderation guidelines and find at least two volunteer moderators (not me), who will provide rapid turnaroud time.
Alas, not me, either. I'm conscious of the moral necessity for those who advocate a result to dig in and make it happen, but I'm just too buried in useful work to take the time. Of course, constant moderation is an awfully "nice" option, but whoever does it will necessarily take time out of doing useful work; maybe we should take that into consideration--is it worth tying someone or two someones up with a daily chore just to be "nice"? Where is the justification? If I won't take time to do it, why should I pass that burden to someone else?
gutvol-d is by far the most valuable general forum PG has, so we don't want to toss the baby with the bathwater. (Ok, maybe a few *particular* babies, already named :-)
Heh. Remember, Michael predicted this, before the list was formed, back in '99. Guess the rest of us were a touch too idealistic to believe the day would come. But I think it has: why should any real volunteer want to post here anymore, with the threat of being dragged down into a mudfight? I never posted here much, but it was once a pleasant neighborhood, with valuable contributions. How say the rest of you -- should we erase the graffiti? jim
I moderated a news list for 4 years. Anyway, I gave everyone a notice when signing up that I disliked playing censor, so either self-censor or get the boot. One warning and only one. Worked quite well. The general warning was sent that the participant was either 1)filling up mailboxes with off-topic posts 2) using disrespectful language against one or more members of the list 3) generally acting like a troll or worse, a spammer. That one warning was generally enough. I think I only had to outright ban one person in 4 years. The point of this being, perhaps a very marginally involved moderator would be enough? So what guidelines are then acceptable? It would be easier to find a low-involvement moderator than someone who will scan everything daily... -erin
On Sun, 15 May 2005 18:07:53 -0400, you wrote:
How say the rest of you -- should we erase the graffiti?
I don't see the need. I don't find it hard to just ignore the exchanges that have become tedious. I glance at the list of emails that filter into my gutvol mailbox and mark some of them read. -- Janet
Ok, new topic of discussion. I'm putting the finishing touches on a book for PG. There will be an html file made as well as plain text. This book includes a decent amount of quoted letters and other documents in it. Fairly often, there are headers and/or footers to these which are aligned to be close to the right margin. So I made a simple CSS declaration for these: .dateheader {text-align: right; margin-right:2em;} However, as I progressed through, the name "dateheader" began to seem little inaccurate. The content is also sometimes the name of a place or a person, or a brief phrase. Any suggestions for a more general (but still accurate) name I could use for this CSS selector? Here are a few example of where I have used this class: <p class="dateheader"> PRETORIA, <i>April 20, 1879.</i> </p> <p>My last letter had not been gone many hours by the mail express when Lanyon ran into my room, to tell me that the Boer camp was actually broken up and the Boers dispersing.</p> ================== <p>The Committee can add nothing to the above, and feel that there will not be one man among the thousands who have joined the Reform movement who will not find it consistent with honour and humanity to co-operate loyally in the carrying out of the Committee's decision.</p> <p class="dateheader"> By order of the Committee.</p> ================== <p>'Notice is hereby given that this Committee adheres to the National Union Manifesto, and reiterates its desire to maintain the independence of the Republic. The fact that rumours are in course of circulation to the effect that a force has crossed the Bechuanaland border renders it necessary to take active steps for the defence of Johannesburg and preservation of order. The Committee earnestly desire that the inhabitants should refrain from taking any action which can be construed as an overt act of hostility against the Government. By order of the Committee,</p> <p class="dateheader"> 'J. PERCY FITZPATRICK,<br/> '<i>Secretary</i>.'</p> ================== <p class="dateheader"> JOHANNESBURG, S.A.R.,<br/> <i>24th March, 1899.</i></p> <p>GENTLEMEN,</p> <p>In response to the invitation from the Government of the South African Republic conveyed to us by Mr. E. Lippert, we beg to submit the enclosed memorandum upon the franchise question.</p> ================== <h4>ARTICLE XX.</h4> <p>This Convention will be ratified by a Volksraad of the South African Republic within the period of six months after its execution, and in default of such ratification this Convention shall be null and void.</p> <p>Signed in duplicate in London this 27th day of February, 1884.</p> <p class="dateheader"> HERCULES ROBINSON.<br/> S.J.P. KRUGER.<br/> S.J. DU TOIT.<br/> N.J. SMIT.</p>
On Sun, 15 May 2005 17:50:44 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:
Ok, new topic of discussion.
I'm putting the finishing touches on a book for PG. There will be an html file made as well as plain text. This book includes a decent amount of quoted letters and other documents in it. Fairly often, there are headers and/or footers to these which are aligned to be close to the right margin.
So I made a simple CSS declaration for these:
.dateheader {text-align: right; margin-right:2em;}
However, as I progressed through, the name "dateheader" began to seem little inaccurate. The content is also sometimes the name of a place or a person, or a brief phrase.
Any suggestions for a more general (but still accurate) name I could use for this CSS selector?
I suggest .alignright Also useful for signatures. (I actually use .ar -- I like short and easy to type.) -- Janet
Janet wrote:
Andrew asked:
I'm putting the finishing touches on a book for PG. There will be an html file made as well as plain text. This book includes a decent amount of quoted letters and other documents in it. Fairly often, there are headers and/or footers to these which are aligned to be close to the right margin.
So I made a simple CSS declaration for these:
.dateheader {text-align: right; margin-right:2em;}
However, as I progressed through, the name "dateheader" began to seem little inaccurate. The content is also sometimes the name of a place or a person, or a brief phrase.
I suggest .alignright
Also useful for signatures. (I actually use .ar -- I like short and easy to type.)
In some ways simply following visual presentation in the markup makes life a whole lot easier. <laugh/> On the other hand, if the purpose of the markup is to semantically identify what a piece of text is (such as a date, or an addressee), then using class values which are presentation-agnostic is preferred. To a blind person, visual layout, especially when the visual layout is NOT communicated to them, is meaningless. For most of us gifted with good eyesight, we sort of take it for granted that typographic layout is usually intended to visually communicate the structure of documents and the semantics of content. Without such visual layout (that is, when the content is scrunched into a steady stream of look-alike words like Greek was written at the time of Christ), it is a lot harder for the reader to discern things such as "this is a header to a new section", "this is a new chapter", etc. Tyopgraphic layout conventions do vary from era to era and from country to country. They even vary in the same era/country. People are pretty good at figuring out the structures/semantics associated with particular typographic conventions in a book given to them, provided they can understand the language. It gets a lot tougher if one does not know the language, obviously! (Or the book uses a typographic convention they know well.) In addition, when we markup the structure and semantics of content, the content is much easier to repurpose, such as to visually present it per the typographic conventions the reader prefers, or is used to. The content is much more flexible with regards to reflowing and adapting to other conventions (and to adapt to electronic reading systems as well which is one reason why PDF is so despised since it does NOT adapt to the end-user's hardware limitations.) And of course this should improve accessibility (text-to-speech), especially if a standardized markup vocabulary is used which focuses strictly on structure and semantics, such as a tight subset of TEI (as Sebastian Rahz advocates), the Digital Talking Book standard, and others. Jon Noring
On Sun, 15 May 2005, Jon Noring wrote:
In some ways simply following visual presentation in the markup makes life a whole lot easier. <laugh/>
Yes indeed it does. I must admit that with this particular book "The Transvaal from within" I have defined a "center" class, which I have used throughout for many various header types of material. And before you get too distressed, let me say that I have already used a structured hierarchy from h1 to h5, for headers which clearly fall into certain divisions. But there are enough places where it's a puzzle to say if a certain section is a subsidiary of a previous one, or a new section of equal importance, or even something that the type-setter decided to center on a whim, that I decided a plain <p class="center"> would do just fine. As an aside, this volume also caught my attention for having two distinctly, and functionally different types of side-notes. Andrew
Andrew asked:
I'm putting the finishing touches on a book for PG. There will be an html file made as well as plain text. This book includes a decent amount of quoted letters and other documents in it. Fairly often, there are headers and/or footers to these which are aligned to be close to the right margin.
So I made a simple CSS declaration for these:
.dateheader {text-align: right; margin-right:2em;}
However, as I progressed through, the name "dateheader" began to seem little inaccurate. The content is also sometimes the name of a place or a person, or a brief phrase.
Any suggestions for a more general (but still accurate) name I could use for this CSS selector?
I don't have any specific suggestion. But one approach might be to investigate how you'd tag that in TEI, then build your class library based on that. Another powerful feature of using the 'class' attribute in XHTML is that one can specify multiple classes in the same 'class' attribute value (the 'class' attribute type is NMTOKENS.) I've found this sometimes gives greater flexibility in both structural markup and in applying CSS styling via selectors. This might help you in the particular markup problem you posed, but not sure. If it might, read on... For those not familiar with multiple classes, here's an example (not targeted to Andrew's specific problem.) This example comes right out of the proposed OEBPS 1.2.1 specification document I'm now working on: <p>Following XHTML 1.1, the Core/Common attribute <code class="attr opt dep">style</code> is deprecated in Basic 1.2. It may be removed in a future version of this specification. Thus, for future upgradeability of documents, it is <em class="rec">strongly recommended</em> the <code class="attr opt dep">style</code> attribute not be used in Basic 1.2 documents; instead, use either the <code class="elem opt nml">style</code> element or external style sheets.</p> For the <code class=". . ."> seen above, the following syntax is used: the first 'class' value item in the list says if it is an element or attribute, the second gives whether it is required or optional, and the third describes its status in the spec (normal, deprecated or removed), for a total of 12 combinations. CSS can be independently applied to these classes, such as the color 'red' for attributes, normal font style for optional, and italic for deprecated. Instead of having to deal with 12 different CSS selectors, we only have to deal with three. Something tells me, Andrew, that your problem might be nicely solved using the multiple class approach. Worth thinking about at least. Jon Noring
Andrew Sly wrote:
Any suggestions for a more general (but still accurate) name I could use for this CSS selector?
This are TEI markup examples for your case. Maybe you can glean sensible names from those. <opener> <dateline> <name type="place">Great Marlborough Street</name> <date>November 11, 1848</date> </dateline> <salute>My dear Sir,</salute> </opener> <p>I am sorry to say that absence from town and other circumstances have prevented me from earlier enquiring...</p> <div type="letter"> <p><!-- ... --> perhaps you will favour me with a sight of it when convenient.</p> <closer> <salute>I remain, &c. &c.</salute> <signed>H. Colburn</signed> </closer> </div> <div type="chapter"> <p><!-- ... --> and his heart was going like mad and yes I said yes I will Yes.</p> <closer> <dateline> <name type="place">Trieste-Zürich-Paris,</name> <date>1914–1921</date> </dateline> </closer> </div> -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org
Marcello wrote:
Andrew Sly wrote:
Any suggestions for a more general (but still accurate) name I could use for this CSS selector?
This are TEI markup examples for your case. Maybe you can glean sensible names from those.
...
<div type="letter"> <p><!-- ... --> perhaps you will favour me with a sight of it when convenient.</p> <closer> <salute>I remain, &c. &c.</salute> <signed>H. Colburn</signed> </closer> </div>
Another TEI example of handling a letter is given at: http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/DS.html#DSOC Here's the example given: <div type="letter" n="14"> <head>Letter XIV: Miss Clarissa Harlowe to Miss Howe</head> <opener> <dateline>Thursday evening, March 2.</dateline> </opener> <p>On Hannah's depositing my long letter ...</p> <p>An interruption obliges me to conclude myself in some hurry, as well as fright, what I must ever be,</p> <closer> <salute>Yours more than my own,</salute> <signed>Clarissa Harlowe</signed> </closer> </div> As I think about it, this can be mapped to XHTML 1.1 as <div class="letter" id="letter14" title="Letter XIV: Miss Clarissa Harlowe to Miss Howe"> <div class="opener"> <p class="dateline">Thursday evening, March 2.</p> </div> <div class="body"> <p>On Hannah's depositing my long letter ...</p> <p>An interruption obliges me to conclude myself in some hurry, as well as fright, what I must ever be,</p> </div> <div class="closer"> <p class="salute">Yours more than my own,</p> <p class="signed">Clarissa Harlowe</p> </div> </div> (I added a <div class="body"> into the mix, even though the TEI example does not include it. I like symmetry of divisions and makes it a little easier for interesting CSS styling (but not necessary.) Also, the <head> in TEI is mapped to "title" in the letter-level <div>. If the <head> is intended to be displayed, it would instead be placed into an XHTML <h3> (or whatever) right below div.letter.) CSS styling then follows this standardized markup. Thanks, Marcello, I was thinking this morning how to markup letters and other types of communications using XHTML and TEI. These are commonly found in many books, so much so they deserved their own 'standardized' format (just like verse), and TEI did not let us down on this. Jon Noring
I have only TODAY resubscribed after a long absence only to find all this rubbish still happening. Please, Jim, erase the graffiti! I am sure that I have missed a lot of useful information and discussion, but on balance I just couldn't stand it and it wasted a lot of my time even when I just tried to read enough to decide whether I was reading rubbish or not. Col Choat Heh. Remember, Michael predicted this, before the list was formed, back in '99. Guess the rest of us were a touch too idealistic to believe the day would come. But I think it has: why should any real volunteer want to post here anymore, with the threat of being dragged down into a mudfight? I never posted here much, but it was once a pleasant neighborhood, with valuable contributions. How say the rest of you -- should we erase the graffiti? jim
I really feel guilty responding to this thread. But one way to solve the problem would be to limit all posts to 200 characters or some other agreeable number, with all additional material to be in an attachment, with a similar but longer allowable content. This may put some water on the flames, as by losing visibility the flame may go out. Another tack would be to require all posts to be either a question about a volunteer work in progress or an answer to the question. Either or both of these might return the list to some of its previous utility. Some questions one might ask are 1)how long should it take to get copyrightclearance on my project? 2) Where can I find canned examples of css I can use in my book which has sidebars in it? and similar sort of stuff. We don't need to discuss the future of unicode, or the lack thereof. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Col Choat" <cjc@gutenberg.net.au> To: "Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion" <gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org> Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 10:58 PM Subject: RE: [gutvol-d] Dear Jon and Bowerbird
I have only TODAY resubscribed after a long absence only to find all this rubbish still happening. Please, Jim, erase the graffiti! I am sure that I have missed a lot of useful information and discussion, but on balance I just couldn't stand it and it wasted a lot of my time even when I just tried to read enough to decide whether I was reading rubbish or not.
Col Choat
Heh. Remember, Michael predicted this, before the list was formed, back in '99. Guess the rest of us were a touch too idealistic to believe the day would come. But I think it has: why should any real volunteer want to post here anymore, with the threat of being dragged down into a mudfight? I never posted here much, but it was once a pleasant neighborhood, with valuable contributions.
How say the rest of you -- should we erase the graffiti?
jim
_______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d
On 5/16/05, N Wolcott <nwolcott@dsdial.net> wrote:
Another tack would be to require all posts to be either a question about a volunteer work in progress or an answer to the question.
Either or both of these might return the list to some of its previous utility.
Some questions one might ask are 1)how long should it take to get copyrightclearance on my project? 2) Where can I find canned examples of css I can use in my book which has sidebars in it? and similar sort of stuff. We don't need to discuss the future of unicode, or the lack thereof.
I think it important to have a list where discussions beyond 1) and 2) can be asked. We need to have a list where we can discuss the future of Unicode in PG, and things like that. It can cause extended arguments, but it can be checked politely, and those people who can't take a hint that enough is enough can be blocked. But I would really hate to limit the only place where indepth discussions on where PG is going and should be going can be held. As a sidenote, if that policy was adopted, it's likely that those still independently producing books would be left out of the loop of any such discussions, as they would be only held on DP's forums.
I for one would hate to see this list get lost in the noise, so I'm willing to help out with moderation. Perhaps with a little bit of moderation, we can bring the list back up to the level it was at when it was first created. I've already got a busy schedule, with Chiropractic school and my family, not to mention the work I already do for PG, but I do check my e-mail frequently and could at least help. Of course, I could never do it alone, nor would I want to. So, if a few more folks want to come forward, we could probably make this work. This is of course assuming that the members of this list will have me. Aaron Cannon At 04:39 PM 5/15/2005, you wrote:
On Sun, May 15, 2005 at 05:18:17PM -0400, Jim Tinsley wrote:
On Sat, May 14, 2005 at 06:04:17PM -0700, Melissa Er-Raqabi wrote:
Could you please take private your ongoing discussions of whose penis is bigger? I signed up for this list to read discussions of Gutenberg by its volunteers. Or was I wrong about what the name of the list implies?
There is just so much noise on this list that I'm tempted to unsubscribe AGAIN, and you know what? I'm a Gutenberg Volunteer, and this list could be a very useful one to me. But you both give me a headache. Jon, why don't you join Bowerbird's Yahoo Group, which seems not to have a lot of traffic, and you two can chat to your heart's content? Or is it having people watch that really turns you two on?
Can you please be quiet, PLEASE?
Thanks for trying, Melissa, but I'm afraid that neither Jon nor Bowerbird, in their very different ways, actually understand what we're doing here, so I'm afraid the only way to get our list back is to change the character of it, and limit membership to people who do, or impose very narrow moderation parameters.
Greg, I will reluctantly now support a move in this direction.
If we take this direction, next step is to basic form moderation guidelines and find at least two volunteer moderators (not me), who will provide rapid turnaroud time.
gutvol-d is by far the most valuable general forum PG has, so we don't want to toss the baby with the bathwater. (Ok, maybe a few *particular* babies, already named :-)
If someone knows of an easy way to block per-address messages from particular individuals via Mailman, please clue me in. This doesn't seem to be a feature of their "topics" facility.
Personally, I simply don't read or respond to anything that Jon or BB writes, and haven't for quite some time. I guess we get enough newcomers to the lists that there is a constant influx of people willing to respond. I would use Procmail to filter such messages (all modern mail clients have similar filtering capability), and probably should, but since I get well over 600 spam messages in an average day just dump it with the rest of the crud. -- Greg
_______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d
-- E-mail: cannona@fireantproductions.com Skype: cannona MSN Messenger: cannona@hotmail.com (Do not send E-mail to the hotmail address.)
I would be more then willing to help with this task. -brandon Aaron Cannon wrote:
I for one would hate to see this list get lost in the noise, so I'm willing to help out with moderation. Perhaps with a little bit of moderation, we can bring the list back up to the level it was at when it was first created. I've already got a busy schedule, with Chiropractic school and my family, not to mention the work I already do for PG, but I do check my e-mail frequently and could at least help. Of course, I could never do it alone, nor would I want to. So, if a few more folks want to come forward, we could probably make this work. This is of course assuming that the members of this list will have me.
Aaron Cannon
At 04:39 PM 5/15/2005, you wrote:
On Sun, May 15, 2005 at 05:18:17PM -0400, Jim Tinsley wrote:
On Sat, May 14, 2005 at 06:04:17PM -0700, Melissa Er-Raqabi wrote:
Could you please take private your ongoing discussions of whose penis is bigger? I signed up for this list to read discussions of Gutenberg by its volunteers. Or was I wrong about what the name of the list implies?
There is just so much noise on this list that I'm tempted to unsubscribe AGAIN, and you know what? I'm a Gutenberg Volunteer, and this list could be a very useful one to me. But you both give me a headache. Jon, why don't you join Bowerbird's Yahoo Group, which seems not to have a lot of traffic, and you two can chat to your heart's content? Or is it having people watch that really turns you two on?
Can you please be quiet, PLEASE?
Thanks for trying, Melissa, but I'm afraid that neither Jon nor Bowerbird, in their very different ways, actually understand what we're doing here, so I'm afraid the only way to get our list back is to change the character of it, and limit membership to people who do, or impose very narrow moderation parameters.
Greg, I will reluctantly now support a move in this direction.
If we take this direction, next step is to basic form moderation guidelines and find at least two volunteer moderators (not me), who will provide rapid turnaroud time.
gutvol-d is by far the most valuable general forum PG has, so we don't want to toss the baby with the bathwater. (Ok, maybe a few *particular* babies, already named :-)
If someone knows of an easy way to block per-address messages from particular individuals via Mailman, please clue me in. This doesn't seem to be a feature of their "topics" facility.
Personally, I simply don't read or respond to anything that Jon or BB writes, and haven't for quite some time. I guess we get enough newcomers to the lists that there is a constant influx of people willing to respond. I would use Procmail to filter such messages (all modern mail clients have similar filtering capability), and probably should, but since I get well over 600 spam messages in an average day just dump it with the rest of the crud. -- Greg
_______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d
-- E-mail: cannona@fireantproductions.com Skype: cannona MSN Messenger: cannona@hotmail.com (Do not send E-mail to the hotmail address.)
_______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d
I don't mind checking the posts on here on an occasional basis to help out if needed. This list gets a lot less traffic than other mailing lists I subscribe to, so it wouldn't be a problem for me to look into helping out by modding a bit, on top of the other things I do for PG. Jared Aaron Cannon wrote on 5/15/2005, 5:03 PM:
I for one would hate to see this list get lost in the noise, so I'm willing to help out with moderation. Perhaps with a little bit of moderation, we can bring the list back up to the level it was at when it was first created. I've already got a busy schedule, with Chiropractic school and my family, not to mention the work I already do for PG, but I do check my e-mail frequently and could at least help. Of course, I could never do it alone, nor would I want to. So, if a few more folks want to come forward, we could probably make this work. This is of course assuming that the members of this list will have me.
Aaron Cannon
On Sun, May 15, 2005 at 05:18:17PM -0400, Jim Tinsley wrote:
On Sat, May 14, 2005 at 06:04:17PM -0700, Melissa Er-Raqabi wrote:
Could you please take private your ongoing discussions of whose
At 04:39 PM 5/15/2005, you wrote: penis
is bigger? I signed up for this list to read discussions of Gutenberg by its volunteers. Or was I wrong about what the name of the list implies?
There is just so much noise on this list that I'm tempted to unsubscribe AGAIN, and you know what? I'm a Gutenberg Volunteer, and this list could be a very useful one to me. But you both give me a headache. Jon, why don't you join Bowerbird's Yahoo Group, which seems not to have a lot of traffic, and you two can chat to your heart's content? Or is it having people watch that really turns you two on?
Can you please be quiet, PLEASE?
Thanks for trying, Melissa, but I'm afraid that neither Jon nor Bowerbird, in their very different ways, actually understand what we're doing here, so I'm afraid the only way to get our list back is to change the character of it, and limit membership to people who do, or impose very narrow moderation parameters.
Greg, I will reluctantly now support a move in this direction.
If we take this direction, next step is to basic form moderation guidelines and find at least two volunteer moderators (not me), who will provide rapid turnaroud time.
gutvol-d is by far the most valuable general forum PG has, so we don't want to toss the baby with the bathwater. (Ok, maybe a few *particular* babies, already named :-)
If someone knows of an easy way to block per-address messages from particular individuals via Mailman, please clue me in. This doesn't seem to be a feature of their "topics" facility.
Personally, I simply don't read or respond to anything that Jon or BB writes, and haven't for quite some time. I guess we get enough newcomers to the lists that there is a constant influx of people willing to respond. I would use Procmail to filter such messages (all modern mail clients have similar filtering capability), and probably should, but since I get well over 600 spam messages in an average day just dump it with the rest of the crud. -- Greg
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Aaron Cannon -
Andrew Sly -
Brandon Galbraith -
Col Choat -
David Starner -
Erin M -
Greg Newby -
Janet Kegg -
Jared Buck -
Jim Tinsley -
Jon Noring -
Marcello Perathoner -
Melissa Er-Raqabi -
N Wolcott