[SPAM] re: Re: so what is so important about pagination?
jim said:
I dislike anything that prevents reflow, which I think is necessary for the enjoyment of most users.
there is absolutely nothing about retaining pagination (or linebreaks, or end-line hyphenates) that "prevents reflow", jim, and i wish you would stop repeating that nonsense. you need to pay better attention. -bowerbird
there is absolutely nothing about retaining pagination (or linebreaks, or end-line hyphenates) that "prevents reflow", jim, and i wish you would stop repeating that nonsense.
As always, we talk past each other - I talk about problems in the real world, and Bowerbird responds with hypotheticals from bowerbirdworld. Certainly current PG choice of linebreaks IS causing real world customers from reading PG books on their choice of hardware. I know because I have responded to their complaints about PG brokenness on other forums. Real world customers just want to read books, they don't want to have to route around PG damage.
It's not trivial that it would make shared proofing a lot easier and less ambiguous. Just match the image.
Hi Don, You are write about this. But, the people over at DP want more. Which is also fine. The problem is that over at DP they seem to me to focused on output formating. What they do seem to understand that you can use markup as pseudo-code or pseudo-mark for that matter. The want to keep as much information as possible. That is not hard if you use pseudo-code. The first step would be as you said is to match the scanned image. So you have a text containing alot of code marking the original linebreaks, chapter beginnings, page marks, page numbers, bold, italics, indentation, images. This markup will not be easily human-readable, but computers do good work of rendering/display in an appropriate fashion. Then all you need is a simple tool that parser this format into the output format you want. e.g for plain text: throw-out page breaks, images, hyphenation convert footnotes to PG Style convert bold, italics, PG Style start output PG Style output PG Header output text PG Style two linebreaks for paragrahs before Chatpters, etc. wrap accordingly This an other simplification. for HTML (everything in one page) throw-out hyphenation create tags for bold, italic create tags for chapter header, with anchors create tags for paragraphs repecting indentation for verse and such. throw-out linebreaks create footnotes. with anchors create tags for images create TOCs You could also have the system produce a more complex HTML-structure, directories for chatpters, one file per page, etc. The same procedure can be applied to other output formats. That is the cool thing about pseudo-code it does not produce output if you do not want it or need it!! regards Keith. Am 21.02.2010 um 06:14 schrieb don kretz:
It's not trivial that it would make shared proofing a lot easier and less ambiguous.
Just match the image.
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Keith, I agree 100% I've been arguing markdown and textile - even zml - for years. Don
ReStructuredText <http://www.freebase.com/view/en/restructuredtext/-/user/sandos/computation>is a newer one that seems to be particularly extensible (hence expressive and adaptable.) On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 8:46 AM, don kretz <dakretz@gmail.com> wrote:
Keith, I agree 100% I've been arguing markdown and textile - even zml - for years.
Don
Hi Don, I am not talking markdown or Restructured. I am talking about a true markup langauge. as Meta-language XML or TeX can be used. The idea is to have tags which contain information that is not truly foramtting. E.G say a pagenumber Tag just states that this page is pagenumber n it could be intergrateg into page break like \page{5}. You could have a footer of an page that look like this \footer{\right{\bold{page} \italic{5}}}} This footer contains the number of the page but does have anything to due with the page or pagenumber tag. regards Keith. Am 21.02.2010 um 18:04 schrieb don kretz:
ReStructuredText is a newer one that seems to be particularly extensible (hence expressive and adaptable.)
On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 8:46 AM, don kretz <dakretz@gmail.com> wrote: Keith, I agree 100% I've been arguing markdown and textile - even zml - for years.
Don
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don kretz wrote:
ReStructuredText <http://www.freebase.com/view/en/restructuredtext/-/user/sandos/computation>is a newer one that seems to be particularly extensible (hence expressive and adaptable.)
This is an example of a RST that EpubMaker (the converter that does all PG epubs) can convert to an industrial-strength epub: .. -*- encoding: utf-8 -*- .. meta:: :DC.Creator: Raymond Chandler :DC.Title: The Big Sleep :DC.Language: English :DC.Created: 1939 The Big Sleep by Raymond Chandler ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ .. contents:: Contents :backlinks: entry Chapter 1 ========= It was about eleven o’clock in the morning, mid October, with the sun not shining and a look of hard wet rain in the clearness of the foothills. I was wearing my powder-blue suit, with dark blue shirt, tie and display handkerchief, black brogues, black wool socks with dark blue clocks on them. I was neat, clean, shaved and sober, and I didn’t care who knew it. I was everything the well-dressed private detective ought to be. I was calling on four million dollars. [...] Chapter 2 ========= [...] -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org
Right, there must be (and always is, in my experience,) at least one unambiguous and comprehensive mapping between the lightweight markup and whatever XML-style tagging you want to declare. And, in many cases, more than one. But HTML is usually first. TeX would also qualify. It's permissible to have, for instance, light-weight markup for syntactic artifacts. There shouldn't be anything XML can do that can't map to your lwml. Worst case, just incorporate your HTML/XML/TeX directly. The lwml just uses conventions and smaller tags to make the markup readable and more easily editable. If someone thinks this means dumbing-down the markup, then I think they misunderstand the purpose and the execution.
participants (5)
-
Bowerbird@aol.com -
don kretz -
James Adcock -
Keith J. Schultz -
Marcello Perathoner