Re: [gutvol-d] a new bevy of kindles
keith said:
I think there is more Hype to the Fire than at first meets the eye.
you have a few good points... but overall, i believe that you're wrong, wrong, wrong. at any rate, it simply doesn't matter what you or i think, as it is _the_marketplace_ which will make the decision about all this. but, to return to the land of opinion again, my observation is that jeff bezos has a much better sense of that marketplace than you do. you -- with a legion of fellow naysayers -- have been pronouncing the kindle a "failure" all along, but bezos keeps increasing the heat on the pot of lobsters on the top of his stove... power and possibilities keep going up and up, and the price keeps going down, down, down... against all the other fumbling bumbling idiots in silicon valley which are not named "apple", this credible competitor is a breath of fresh air. and all the more fascinating because it's playing to its _strength_, which is different from apple's. the idiots, on the other hand, try to mimic apple, and end up with their faces planted in concrete...
As for the other kindles some improvements, but read the specs carefully.
specs, shmecs.
Special offer! Add $30 for advertisement free!
some people make a big deal about the ads... even though they only play on the splashscreen; they are _not_ shown inside the books per se... my impression is that it is very interesting that we now have an extremely accurate measure of the value of those ads to the entity selling them. via its pricing, amazon informs us that it makes about $30/machine from the advertising it does. framed against the backdrop of an $80 machine, that's quite a revealing revelation, doncha think? besides... to everyone who really hates ads, $30 is a cheap price to pay to get rid of them. enjoy the option.
Battery life for 1 month when reading only for half an hour a day!!
seriously? you're complaining about battery-life? end-users _overwhelmingly_ consider battery-life as one of the biggest _assets_ of e-ink machines, as well they should. this just shows how desperate you are to have something to complain about, keith. as for the "half-an-hour a day" nature of the claim, that's easy to understand if you know some history. for years, amazon made its claims based on a rate of one-hour-a-day usage. then kobo came along, and claimed battery-life that was "twice as long", except based on a rate of just half-an-hour-daily. (if you are rolling your eyes at the stupidity, i dig; this shows how desperate kobo was for any edge.) so amazon changed the nature of its claim's rating. do you think it should have done otherwise? what?
Only 6" screen.
if you don't consider that "the right size", don't buy.
The Fire seems interesting, but to state some facts: 1) 8 GB half that of iPad
with amazon's cloud strategy, that's more than enough...
2) 7" Screen smaller than iPad
that's "the right size", exactly, for the target market.
3) roughly similar battery life.
right. roughly similar superb, outstanding battery-life.
4) missing a 3G option
if true, then yes, this will be a big loss for some people. other people seem to live in a wifi bubble, and won't care.
5) processing power hard to say, they do not mention what is inside!
we'll see if people think the machine operates slowly. what's interesting to note is that amazon is _bragging_ about the speed you will get from its browser, which is utilizing the cloud-strategy which i mentioned above...
They push the silk browser for speed! But, why! Sure it is nice, but you still have to push the data. So, the processor must have some short comings.
what do you expect from a chip that is that cheap?
All in all, a some what rushed product!
wrong.
Price wise from looking at the specs the same price to feature ratio as the iPad.
the same price-to-feature ratio, but at a _lower_ price. thank goodness bezos pushes the edge of the envelope.
On the other side the iPad2 is not ready for prime time for me either.
and yet tens of millions of people are ecstatic with it. i think you're out of touch, keith, and badly at that... -bowerbird
...this credible competitor is a breath of fresh air...
Competition is a good thing. PG users can and do disagree about which reader device is best for them and their needs. PG users have benefitted from the increasingly inexpensive variety of options for reading PG books, and competition is driving even Amazon to acknowledge the existence of free PG books to its customers -- because in part the ability to freely download and read PG books directly from a Kindle is an advantage Kindle has over many of its competitors. Free books in turn win because "free" has a built-in unique competitive advantage! Hopefully, anti-competitive behavior will prove to be auto-self-destructive. The "fun" part of all this is that to be effective PG has to be willing to meet PG users "where they want to read" which ever-increasingly means the need for useful and effective implementations of ePub and Mobi books, an area where even a casual inspection of PG offerings will display that PG continues to frequently fail.
I believe (though I could of course be wrong) that Bowerbird was referring to Amazon as a “credible competitor” to Apple (specifically Apple’s iPad). And yes, PG’s Kindle books need work… -- b On Sep 29, 2011, at 2:35 PM, Jim Adcock wrote:
...this credible competitor is a breath of fresh air...
Competition is a good thing. PG users can and do disagree about which reader device is best for them and their needs. PG users have benefitted from the increasingly inexpensive variety of options for reading PG books, and competition is driving even Amazon to acknowledge the existence of free PG books to its customers -- because in part the ability to freely download and read PG books directly from a Kindle is an advantage Kindle has over many of its competitors. Free books in turn win because "free" has a built-in unique competitive advantage! Hopefully, anti-competitive behavior will prove to be auto-self-destructive.
The "fun" part of all this is that to be effective PG has to be willing to meet PG users "where they want to read" which ever-increasingly means the need for useful and effective implementations of ePub and Mobi books, an area where even a casual inspection of PG offerings will display that PG continues to frequently fail.
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I believe (though I could of course be wrong) that Bowerbird was referring to Amazon as a "credible competitor" to Apple (specifically Apple's iPad).
Sorry, I also meant this in the sense of "Amazon is a credible competitor to Apple for ebook reader devices." Sony and B&N being other ebook reader device vendors well-known to have a following among PG readers. PG has "competition" from other organizations offering various flavors of free ebook type thingees, including archive.org and books.google.com [Where I am sure I will now get flamed by some readers saying that NFPs aren't "competitors" to each other. Sigh]
Hi James, I think we can say any dedicated machine is always better. I would never look an iPad as a ebook reader. Yet, I am sure that some buy a Porsche Cheyenne to strictly drive off road. regards Keith. Am 29.09.2011 um 22:04 schrieb James Adcock:
I believe (though I could of course be wrong) that Bowerbird was referring to Amazon as a "credible competitor" to Apple (specifically Apple's iPad).
Sorry, I also meant this in the sense of "Amazon is a credible competitor to Apple for ebook reader devices." Sony and B&N being other ebook reader device vendors well-known to have a following among PG readers.
PG has "competition" from other organizations offering various flavors of free ebook type thingees, including archive.org and books.google.com
[Where I am sure I will now get flamed by some readers saying that NFPs aren't "competitors" to each other. Sigh]
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Hi Benjamin, “credible competitor” are the wrong words, unless you consider Ferrari a “credible competitor” to Volkswagen! They are two distinct animals. Geared to different types of uses. The second point is always an ongoing point of discussion here. regards Keith. Am 29.09.2011 um 21:46 schrieb Benjamin Klein:
I believe (though I could of course be wrong) that Bowerbird was referring to Amazon as a “credible competitor” to Apple (specifically Apple’s iPad).
And yes, PG’s Kindle books need work…
-- b
On Sep 29, 2011, at 2:35 PM, Jim Adcock wrote:
...this credible competitor is a breath of fresh air...
Competition is a good thing. PG users can and do disagree about which reader device is best for them and their needs. PG users have benefitted from the increasingly inexpensive variety of options for reading PG books, and competition is driving even Amazon to acknowledge the existence of free PG books to its customers -- because in part the ability to freely download and read PG books directly from a Kindle is an advantage Kindle has over many of its competitors. Free books in turn win because "free" has a built-in unique competitive advantage! Hopefully, anti-competitive behavior will prove to be auto-self-destructive.
The "fun" part of all this is that to be effective PG has to be willing to meet PG users "where they want to read" which ever-increasingly means the need for useful and effective implementations of ePub and Mobi books, an area where even a casual inspection of PG offerings will display that PG continues to frequently fail.
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My dear friend BB, You now I am not a nay-sayer. Yes, I am bias to Apple, but there was NOTHING bias in my description as you yourself noted. Out of touch, I doubt very much. The facts about battery life is very to date. If I run my laptop for just a half hour a day I can get some 10 hours out of it, instead ofvthe advertised 8 hours. Batteries deplete faster during continuos use. If you give the time to regenerate (yes, they do that) you get more "life" out of them. I have, also, stated that the readers are still far to expensive for what they deliver. The same goes for the iPad. My price comparison, mearly that if the Fire offered similar specs as the iPad it would be just as expensive. Actually, you would being paying more because the mileage is worse on the Fire. The Fire is advertised as a tablet, it is effectively a souped up reader, nothing more or less. Therefore rushed. As to Silk there is one more kudo. You have no control of what amazon is doing with the information they CAN gather while you are suffering the web. Basically, I am saying is look careful at what you are getting for your buck. Though it probably is not of interest I do have the kindle reader for my Mac, for exactly one book which I could not get electronically, otherwise, cheaper. regards Keith. Am 29.09.2011 um 19:47 schrieb Bowerbird@aol.com:
keith said:
I think there is more Hype to the Fire than at first meets the eye.
you have a few good points... but overall, i believe that you're wrong, wrong, wrong.
at any rate, it simply doesn't matter what you or i think, as it is _the_marketplace_ which will make the decision about all this.
but, to return to the land of opinion again, my observation is that jeff bezos has a much better sense of that marketplace than you do.
you -- with a legion of fellow naysayers -- have been pronouncing the kindle a "failure" all along, but bezos keeps increasing the heat on the pot of lobsters on the top of his stove...
power and possibilities keep going up and up, and the price keeps going down, down, down...
against all the other fumbling bumbling idiots in silicon valley which are not named "apple", this credible competitor is a breath of fresh air. and all the more fascinating because it's playing to its _strength_, which is different from apple's. the idiots, on the other hand, try to mimic apple, and end up with their faces planted in concrete...
As for the other kindles some improvements, but read the specs carefully.
specs, shmecs.
Special offer! Add $30 for advertisement free!
some people make a big deal about the ads... even though they only play on the splashscreen; they are _not_ shown inside the books per se...
my impression is that it is very interesting that we now have an extremely accurate measure of the value of those ads to the entity selling them.
via its pricing, amazon informs us that it makes about $30/machine from the advertising it does. framed against the backdrop of an $80 machine, that's quite a revealing revelation, doncha think?
besides...
to everyone who really hates ads, $30 is a cheap price to pay to get rid of them. enjoy the option.
Battery life for 1 month when reading only for half an hour a day!!
seriously? you're complaining about battery-life? end-users _overwhelmingly_ consider battery-life as one of the biggest _assets_ of e-ink machines, as well they should. this just shows how desperate you are to have something to complain about, keith.
as for the "half-an-hour a day" nature of the claim, that's easy to understand if you know some history.
for years, amazon made its claims based on a rate of one-hour-a-day usage. then kobo came along, and claimed battery-life that was "twice as long", except based on a rate of just half-an-hour-daily. (if you are rolling your eyes at the stupidity, i dig; this shows how desperate kobo was for any edge.)
so amazon changed the nature of its claim's rating. do you think it should have done otherwise? what?
Only 6" screen.
if you don't consider that "the right size", don't buy.
The Fire seems interesting, but to state some facts: 1) 8 GB half that of iPad
with amazon's cloud strategy, that's more than enough...
2) 7" Screen smaller than iPad
that's "the right size", exactly, for the target market.
3) roughly similar battery life.
right. roughly similar superb, outstanding battery-life.
4) missing a 3G option
if true, then yes, this will be a big loss for some people. other people seem to live in a wifi bubble, and won't care.
5) processing power hard to say, they do not mention what is inside!
we'll see if people think the machine operates slowly.
what's interesting to note is that amazon is _bragging_ about the speed you will get from its browser, which is utilizing the cloud-strategy which i mentioned above...
They push the silk browser for speed! But, why! Sure it is nice, but you still have to push the data. So, the processor must have some short comings.
what do you expect from a chip that is that cheap?
All in all, a some what rushed product!
wrong.
Price wise from looking at the specs the same price to feature ratio as the iPad.
the same price-to-feature ratio, but at a _lower_ price. thank goodness bezos pushes the edge of the envelope.
On the other side the iPad2 is not ready for prime time for me either.
and yet tens of millions of people are ecstatic with it.
i think you're out of touch, keith, and badly at that...
-bowerbird _______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/mailman/listinfo/gutvol-d
The Fire is advertised as a tablet, it is effectively a souped up reader, nothing more or less.
I agree that it appears to be more of a ebook reader, competing more with Nook. Amazon will be coming out with a larger tablet perhaps in time for Xmas which is more competitive, at least size-wize, with tablets. But again, I suspect that which Amazon is offering is much different than what Apple/iPad is offering, so potential buyers should look at these things closely to determine which is will and will not do towards meeting a particular user's desires. [I was shocked at the restrictions Apple put on the iPad, not to imply that the Amazon tablet might not be even more restrictive.]
As to Silk there is one more kudo. You have no control of what amazon is doing with the information they CAN gather while you are suffering the web.
One could make the same complaint of Apple requiring the user to transfer personal docs via the company store application. One could also complain about the censorship Apple applies in terms of not even allowing some political categories of documents to even be sold for the iPad, for example.
Basically, I am saying is look careful at what you are getting for your buck.
Agreed 100% -- they all have restrictions which will grate more or less depending on the needs of a particular user. Also remember to look at the Nook and the Sony eBook readers, which have their own fan bases -- and their own sets of advantages, and restrictions.
participants (5)
-
Benjamin Klein -
Bowerbird＠aol.com -
James Adcock -
Jim Adcock
-
Keith J. Schultz