greg, i'm a little disappointed in that response
greg said:
I edited a disclaimer at the top of the review, ... and, mentioned on the main page that it's the Webmaster's review, not Project Gutenberg's review.
well, gee. i'm a little disappointed in you, greg. i mean, i tell don not to get his knickers in a twist, because greg will obviously swoop in and fix this... and then, greg, you stumble in with this non-fix... only one part of the complaints was that p.g. wasn't sufficiently distanced from this "review". the _main_ complaint, though, was a reaction that the "review" itself is "not what p.g. does". and the more-relevant sub-complaint is that the "review" doesn't seem to be very balanced. *** anyway... again, on-going posting of this so-called "review" isn't gonna mean the end of the world. people get tech advice everywhere, so this is just one more bit. we have to assume p.g. end-users have intelligence, and thus will recognize this rant for the rant that it is. just to put this in perspective... but this isn't good tech advice, not by a long shot, and people will recognize that it's primarily spite, so it won't exert much effect, other than to make _p.g._ look kinda bad. yes, that's right; it backfires. the main point is that it's hard to load in content. but first there's a whole paragraph of bitching that ultimately ends with "turn the machine face-down if you don't want to see ads", which is good advice, but also already quite obvious to thinking people... so eliminate that bitching paragraph, and condense the advice down to a single sentence as i just put it. but the worst part is yet to come. the piece leads off with "don't buy the kindle fire". ok, great, i'm glad we got _that_ out of the way... yet in the closing section which is given the heading of "to read project gutenberg e-books on your kindle fire", the steps are:
1. don't buy a kindle fire.
seems to be a bit out of place, given the heading, eh? besides, it's a bit repetitive, not?
2. if you already bought a kindle fire, return it.
again, the section is _supposed_to_be_ about how to download p.g. e-books to your kindle fire, am i right? so this second point seems not to be relevant. right? and by now, even the repetition is getting repetitive.
3. if you can't return it, e-mail yourself the e-book.
well, ok, we note the continuing assertion of the theme. but at least we finally get to the purpose of the section. now, the "review" doesn't state it as plainly as i did, but the _act_ is to e-mail the e-book to your kindle account. this option -- to put non-amazon stuff on your kindle by e-mailing it to an address (for your account) that is furnished, by amazon, for free -- has been available to people within the kindle infrastructure for a while now. so here's my question: if an e-book can be e-mailed to an end-user's kindle account, why doesn't p.g. do that? give people a button that collects their e-mail address then automatically e-mails the e-book to that address. seems to me that _project_gutenberg needs to make it easy for us to put p.g. e-books on our kindle accounts. of course, then marcello won't have stuff to bitch about. -bowerbird
Hi All, The so-called Review of the Kindle Fire can hardly be called a review. More-over it is hardly impartial, and deliberately misleading!! Furthermore, is a statement for advocating a different device. First, why does the author hide behind a title instead of stating his name, flat out. Why he had bought the machine and in which affiliation. Well, he has himself come forward. He also, admitted that he knew he would be getting the ads. Yet, his review gives you the idea that he had no idea that he would be getting ads. Furthermore, he, also, did not mention that the ads could be stop for a fee. He has in the mean time, mentioned on this list, that he could do this, but did want to waste PG's MONEY. As BB has mentioned the so-called review is not a review at all, but a RANT. I agree, with is opinion. I do not believe that PG should be advocating such reviews. Especially, in the light that practically all ereaders that use DRMed texts are locked down. True, some make it easier to get other free content from other sources than their official sites. Personally, I will not be buying a Kindle of any sort, nor a nexus, nor any dedicated ereader. PG should not advocate buying any particular device and stay impartial. Such behavior will be damaging in the end. regards Keith J. Schultz
Keith, I agree about The Review. However, I do have both a Kindle and a Nook plus a Vizio tablet. While all of them support DRMed content, you can easily get PG books and IA books on them. Also, as one who sells books on the Kindle site Amazon does not force you to use DRM. It is an option every author has, but nobody forces or even encourages you to choose it. None of my nine books on the Kindle Store have any DRM. The one caveat is that if you choose to use DRM you can't change your mind later. However going from no DRM to DRM is doable. I think Amazon offers DRM because their best selling authors require it from them. There probably is a way to get PG books on a Kindle Fire. Rather than write a review PG should figure out how to do it and write an article on that. I think they already have one on how to get PG books on various devices. Dedicated devices like the Kindle and the Nook are a blessing to the free e-book community. There is no good philosophical reason not to get one. James Simmons On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 4:45 AM, Keith J. Schultz <schultzk@uni-trier.de>wrote:
Hi All,
The so-called Review of the Kindle Fire can hardly be called a review.
More-over it is hardly impartial, and deliberately misleading!! Furthermore, is a statement for advocating a different device.
First, why does the author hide behind a title instead of stating his name, flat out. Why he had bought the machine and in which affiliation.
Well, he has himself come forward. He also, admitted that he knew he would be getting the ads. Yet, his review gives you the idea that he had no idea that he would be getting ads. Furthermore, he, also, did not mention that the ads could be stop for a fee. He has in the mean time, mentioned on this list, that he could do this, but did want to waste PG's MONEY.
As BB has mentioned the so-called review is not a review at all, but a RANT. I agree, with is opinion.
I do not believe that PG should be advocating such reviews. Especially, in the light that practically all ereaders that use DRMed texts are locked down. True, some make it easier to get other free content from other sources than their official sites.
Personally, I will not be buying a Kindle of any sort, nor a nexus, nor any dedicated ereader.
PG should not advocate buying any particular device and stay impartial. Such behavior will be damaging in the end.
regards Keith J. Schultz
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Hi James, One philosophical reason (as well as a practical one), you can do more with a non-dedicated ereader device. It is just as easy to access free content from such devices. Then again this is my personal opinion and anyone can buy and get use any device they choose. regards Keith Am 29.10.2012 um 15:36 schrieb James Simmons <nicestep@gmail.com>:
Keith,
I agree about The Review. However, I do have both a Kindle and a Nook plus a Vizio tablet. While all of them support DRMed content, you can easily get PG books and IA books on them. Also, as one who sells books on the Kindle site Amazon does not force you to use DRM. It is an option every author has, but nobody forces or even encourages you to choose it. None of my nine books on the Kindle Store have any DRM. The one caveat is that if you choose to use DRM you can't change your mind later. However going from no DRM to DRM is doable. I think Amazon offers DRM because their best selling authors require it from them.
There probably is a way to get PG books on a Kindle Fire. Rather than write a review PG should figure out how to do it and write an article on that. I think they already have one on how to get PG books on various devices.
Dedicated devices like the Kindle and the Nook are a blessing to the free e-book community. There is no good philosophical reason not to get one.
Keith, I have written e-book software for the XO laptop (One Laptop Per Child) which is a terrific device for reading e-books: http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4035 http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4194 The XO can read DjVu and PDF formats so you have access to every IA book by looking at page images. Having said that, the Kindle has a MUCH better battery life, stores more books, and fits in my pocket. The XO laptop does a beautiful job of displaying our EPUBs as it has the full WebKit browser engine as a component. You could buy a NetBook and install the Sugar software on it to make a nice device for e-books, but you can't read the screen in sunlight (unlike the XO) and the battery life would be inadequate. I have a Vizio tablet but it has the same problems as a NetBook has. I like the Nook and Kindle equally. I probably won't buy a Kindle Fire or a Nook Color because they are more tablets than e-book readers. I took my Nook on a trip to Europe. I was reading constantly on the flight over and on two four-hour train trips and only charged it once. The Kindle is nearly as good. I'd say these dedicated devices are here to stay. James Simmons On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 2:10 PM, Keith J. Schultz <schultzk@uni-trier.de>wrote:
Hi James,
One philosophical reason (as well as a practical one), you can do more with a non-dedicated ereader device.
It is just as easy to access free content from such devices.
Then again this is my personal opinion and anyone can buy and get use any device they choose.
regards Keith Am 29.10.2012 um 15:36 schrieb James Simmons <nicestep@gmail.com>:
Keith,
I agree about The Review. However, I do have both a Kindle and a Nook plus a Vizio tablet. While all of them support DRMed content, you can easily get PG books and IA books on them. Also, as one who sells books on the Kindle site Amazon does not force you to use DRM. It is an option every author has, but nobody forces or even encourages you to choose it. None of my nine books on the Kindle Store have any DRM. The one caveat is that if you choose to use DRM you can't change your mind later. However going from no DRM to DRM is doable. I think Amazon offers DRM because their best selling authors require it from them.
There probably is a way to get PG books on a Kindle Fire. Rather than write a review PG should figure out how to do it and write an article on that. I think they already have one on how to get PG books on various devices.
Dedicated devices like the Kindle and the Nook are a blessing to the free e-book community. There is no good philosophical reason not to get one.
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Hi James, Like I said is was my personal opinion. Everybody to their cup of tea. regards Keith. Am 29.10.2012 um 22:49 schrieb James Simmons <nicestep@gmail.com>:
Keith,
I have written e-book software for the XO laptop (One Laptop Per Child) which is a terrific device for reading e-books:
http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4035
http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4194
The XO can read DjVu and PDF formats so you have access to every IA book by looking at page images.
Having said that, the Kindle has a MUCH better battery life, stores more books, and fits in my pocket. The XO laptop does a beautiful job of displaying our EPUBs as it has the full WebKit browser engine as a component.
You could buy a NetBook and install the Sugar software on it to make a nice device for e-books, but you can't read the screen in sunlight (unlike the XO) and the battery life would be inadequate.
I have a Vizio tablet but it has the same problems as a NetBook has.
I like the Nook and Kindle equally. I probably won't buy a Kindle Fire or a Nook Color because they are more tablets than e-book readers.
I took my Nook on a trip to Europe. I was reading constantly on the flight over and on two four-hour train trips and only charged it once. The Kindle is nearly as good. I'd say these dedicated devices are here to stay.
James Simmons
One philosophical reason (as well as a practical one), you can do more with a non-dedicated ereader device.
Not sure how you define a "non-dedicated ereader device" but the Kindle Fire, for example, is an Android device, so one can have more than one "ebook reader" on that Android device. For example "Amazon Kindle" is just one Android applet on the device, FBReader is another, the Silk Browser is yet another way to read ebooks, it also supports PDF via another applet, etc. So all these device manufacturers take a certain amount of steps to partially "lock down" their devices, and people find ways to work around those locks, without even bothering to break the locks. Only the most adventurous take full "jailbreak" access to the machines, because it is easy to "brick" one's device, and manufacturers have been known to retaliate on their next software release. Which is not even getting into the issue of DRM-cracking, which would be a more serious business. I don't jailbreak and I don't crack DRM -- life's too short to waste my time on this stuff. But I find it good fun to figure out ways to work around the restrictions the monopolists keep trying to build into their machines. Don't know why they don't realize that people are happy to buy their stuff -- IF they offer good quality good value at a good price in the first place.
On 10/29/2012 03:36 PM, James Simmons wrote:
There probably is a way to get PG books on a Kindle Fire. Rather than write a review PG should figure out how to do it and write an article on that. I think they already have one on how to get PG books on various devices.
I have spent a full day on Google trying to figure out an easy way. I have found none. Everybody else is stumped too. Of course, James Adcock knows a way, but he isn't telling. Anybody else knows how to do it? Then speak out now. Regards -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org
seems to me that _project_gutenberg needs to make it easy for us to put p.g. e-books on our kindle accounts.
The "Review" doesn't fly on this basis either, in that it has been easy to put PG books on Kindles prior to the Fire for many years, using that "live book on books" I created known as "Magic Catalog" which I encouraged PG to pick up and make their own, except that PG never did.
On Mon, October 29, 2012 5:15 am, James Adcock wrote:
seems to me that _project_gutenberg needs to make it easy for us to put p.g. e-books on our kindle accounts.
The "Review" doesn't fly on this basis either, in that it has been easy to put PG books on Kindles prior to the Fire for many years, using that "live book on books" I created known as "Magic Catalog" which I encouraged PG to pick up and make their own, except that PG never did.
It's time to stop whining, and start doing. I haven't bothered reading the rant/review, because I have little interest in the Kindle, and even less in Mr. Perathoner's opinions. But it appears that he has posted an opinion piece at gutenberg.org without prior approval, without collaboration, and without any editorial oversight. So why don't you do the same thing? All volunteers at Project Gutenberg are equals. Just write your praises/review of the Kindle and ask Mr. Newby to post it next to Mr. Perathoner's. If Mr. Perathoner can do it, there's no reason you shouldn't be allowed to do it as well, and then readers can make their own decisions.
On 10/29/2012 04:34 PM, Lee Passey wrote:
All volunteers at Project Gutenberg are equals. Just write your praises/review of the Kindle and ask Mr. Newby to post it next to Mr. Perathoner's. If Mr. Perathoner can do it, there's no reason you shouldn't be allowed to do it as well, and then readers can make their own decisions.
He could already have done that because the PG site is a wiki. James, get an account, write a review, and I'll link it right next to mine. Oh, make sure you don't forget to mention that you are operating a web site dedicated to the Kindle and thus you are not as disinterested as you pretend to be. Regards -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org
It's a little difficult to see the appeal of a wiki where the first step is to request permission to join from Marcel; and where Marcel is clearly in charge of content curation. Wikis are all about controlling the content.
On 10/29/2012 10:19 PM, don kretz wrote:
It's a little difficult to see the appeal of a wiki where the first step is to request permission to join from Marcel; and where Marcel is clearly in charge of content curation.
You have to request an account in email because we had too much account spam before. Did you request an account and had your request denied? No? Then I suggest you follow procedure and see what happens, before making allegiations. Regards -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org
Oh, make sure you don't forget to mention that you are operating a web site dedicated to the Kindle and thus you are not as disinterested as you pretend to be.
I put up the Kindle website after asking PG for years to start making books for real ebook readers and not that Plucker crapola or what was it that PG was fantasizing at the time? A year or two after I put up my website guess what PG decided that maybe they *could* offer real ebooks after all. Except that epubmaker has never gotten there, perhaps because of Marcello's animosity towards Amazon, and his preference towards Google? I in turn chose to focus on Kindle *not* because I am some kind of "buddy" of Amazon (Amazon doesn't like my efforts) but rather because I became sick and tired of the "Feedbooks" type of approach of pretending to be all things to all people resulting in books that are dumbed down to the lowest common denominator -- or below -- rather than trying to retain most of the good time and effort volunteers have put into coding books. So I said to myself "I will do what I can do, rather than pretending to be all things to all people" [as many on this forum would pretend to be.] And when PG started offering mobi books I pointed my customers back to this site, and I created "Magic Catalog" so that people would get their books from this site, and I linked everywhere to PG and always pointed credit to PG and told people they should donate to PG not me, etc. And what in return? Answer: PG keeps churning out crappy books which do not have even the most basic formatting, namely paragraph formatting, working correctly. And guess what people keep getting books from my site even though I tried to give them back to PG. And why? Because my books work.
All volunteers at Project Gutenberg are equals. Just write your
praises/review of the Kindle and ask Mr. Newby to post it next to Mr. Perathoner's. If Mr. Perathoner can do it, there's no reason you shouldn't be allowed to do it as well, and then readers can make their own decisions. I don't see how its going to make PG better if I engage in that behavior that I express disappointment that Marcello engaged in. Marcello's comments do explain the behavior of epubmaker, however.
participants (7)
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Bowerbird＠aol.com -
don kretz -
James Adcock -
James Simmons -
Keith J. Schultz -
Lee Passey -
Marcello Perathoner