Hey list! Instead of doing to 4 line reply to each topic, I'm going to throw it all in on here. My apologies for being slow to reply. I'm currently on a working vacation in Utah, and only getting my email once or twice a day. I'm James Linden, currently the one trying to get PG Canada going. I have to say, it's great to see other people on the same side. :-) Regarding the website: Currently, the site is hosted by my own company, located in Barrie, ON. CompuSOLVE are the guys providing my 'net pipe, but they don't have anything to do with the site or the server it's on. I've not had a whole lot of time recently to do anything with the PG site, mostly because I've had to work like mad to make this 4 week trip possible around contracts, etc. Any ideas/help are great. I do have to point out that I'm opposed to using ANY of the main PG site. It's been hacked together over the course of a decade, and is only getting worse. Marcello has been doing a great job on the site, but has a long way to go. Regarding non profit: I have not been able to locate a lawyer, so that news is good news. I'll see what I can do about chipping in to cover the fees. Regarding backend: I'm very opposed to basing PG Canada on the current PG system, which does not meet even minimal requirements for cataloging and does not rely on a master XML document. If my ideas are too much for the PG Canada group that is coming together here, I'll step aside and not get in the way. I'd rather learn the appropriate lessons from PG's experiences, and do something better, which, I must point out, it not hard. I realize this information is not complete, and I'll get more thoughts together ASAP... :-) Good to see everyone here on the list!!!!!!! Regards, James Linden jlinden@projectgutenberg.ca
On Tue, 9 Nov 2004, James Linden wrote:
Regarding backend: I'm very opposed to basing PG Canada on the current PG system, which does not meet even minimal requirements for cataloging and does not rely on a master XML document.
This is the issue that draws my attention the most. Actually, I believe it's a brief summation of three areas: 1)cataloging information 2)file format 3)directory structure All of these are proposed by James to be done differently from what has been done at PG. This is a valid choice, however, it could be quite an uphill struggle to work out enough bugs to have them at a usable point.
If my ideas are too much for the PG Canada group that is coming together here, I'll step aside and not get in the way. I'd rather learn the appropriate lessons from PG's experiences, and do something better, which, I must point out, it not hard.
This is somewhere I am unsure where to draw the dividing line. At one extreme, we could just barge ahead and start posting whatever files people want to submit, working things out as we go. At the other extreme we could try to work out a detailed plan for how to deal with various exceptions that will come up in the areas mentioned above before going any further. The first option has the benefit of drawing in volunteers. PG's growth can be attributed to its historical openness to accepting files prepared in different ways. A drawback is that it leads to many inconsistencies in the files. The second option has the benefit of being very organized, which can end up making the collection easier to use, search, etc. The drawback is that working out the details, without basing them on an already working model, would be very time consuming. So is there some middle ground? Andrew
I agree with everybody :-) However I also think it is important to get something up quickly. Is it possible to get some simple server going. Whether it be based on PG USA PG EU, Google, I don't think it matters. Something with very little work and quick. Then at the same time we can work on putting together the all singing, all dancing machine which will cook your breakfast in the morning as well. Let's continue to debate what the ideal final solution is, but at the same time lets start a new thread that discusses our options for a quick solution as too. Andrew Sly wrote:
On Tue, 9 Nov 2004, James Linden wrote:
Regarding backend: I'm very opposed to basing PG Canada on the current PG system, which does not meet even minimal requirements for cataloging and does not rely on a master XML document.
This is the issue that draws my attention the most. Actually, I believe it's a brief summation of three areas: 1)cataloging information 2)file format 3)directory structure All of these are proposed by James to be done differently from what has been done at PG. This is a valid choice, however, it could be quite an uphill struggle to work out enough bugs to have them at a usable point.
If my ideas are too much for the PG Canada group that is coming together here, I'll step aside and not get in the way. I'd rather learn the appropriate lessons from PG's experiences, and do something better, which, I must point out, it not hard.
This is somewhere I am unsure where to draw the dividing line. At one extreme, we could just barge ahead and start posting whatever files people want to submit, working things out as we go. At the other extreme we could try to work out a detailed plan for how to deal with various exceptions that will come up in the areas mentioned above before going any further.
The first option has the benefit of drawing in volunteers. PG's growth can be attributed to its historical openness to accepting files prepared in different ways. A drawback is that it leads to many inconsistencies in the files. The second option has the benefit of being very organized, which can end up making the collection easier to use, search, etc. The drawback is that working out the details, without basing them on an already working model, would be very time consuming.
So is there some middle ground?
Andrew
_______________________________________________ Project Gutenberg of Canada Website: http://www.projectgutenberg.ca/ List: pgcanada@lists.pglaf.org Archives: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/pgcanada/
Hey James, I hope the new blood and bold enthusiasm from some of us will help motivate everybody. Do let me know if I get to bold. I do not ever intent to offend or step on toes. I gentle 2x4 across the back of the head should do. Some questions regarding your ISP. Given that copyright law is a very murky thing with a lot of gray ambiguities, it is probably more likely than not that we will get served with legal papers demanding we remove stuff from our server. Also given that we will have pre-investigated the legal status of any work we post and be confident of our fair interpretation of its status under copyright law. We will be very unlikely to remove any works. How comfortable will your ISP be in supporting this position? Can we be fairly confident that they will not feel intimidated into pulling our plug? I ask this because Russell McOrmond, who runs the discussion list at www.digital-copyright.ca suggested a different ISP. Do you think you and Russell could discuss and decide the best alternatives for us here? cheers, darryl James Linden wrote:
Hey list!
Instead of doing to 4 line reply to each topic, I'm going to throw it all in on here. My apologies for being slow to reply. I'm currently on a working vacation in Utah, and only getting my email once or twice a day.
I'm James Linden, currently the one trying to get PG Canada going. I have to say, it's great to see other people on the same side. :-)
Regarding the website: Currently, the site is hosted by my own company, located in Barrie, ON. CompuSOLVE are the guys providing my 'net pipe, but they don't have anything to do with the site or the server it's on. I've not had a whole lot of time recently to do anything with the PG site, mostly because I've had to work like mad to make this 4 week trip possible around contracts, etc. Any ideas/help are great. I do have to point out that I'm opposed to using ANY of the main PG site. It's been hacked together over the course of a decade, and is only getting worse. Marcello has been doing a great job on the site, but has a long way to go.
Regarding non profit: I have not been able to locate a lawyer, so that news is good news. I'll see what I can do about chipping in to cover the fees.
Regarding backend: I'm very opposed to basing PG Canada on the current PG system, which does not meet even minimal requirements for cataloging and does not rely on a master XML document.
If my ideas are too much for the PG Canada group that is coming together here, I'll step aside and not get in the way. I'd rather learn the appropriate lessons from PG's experiences, and do something better, which, I must point out, it not hard.
I realize this information is not complete, and I'll get more thoughts together ASAP... :-)
Good to see everyone here on the list!!!!!!!
Regards, James Linden jlinden@projectgutenberg.ca
_______________________________________________ Project Gutenberg of Canada Website: http://www.projectgutenberg.ca/ List: pgcanada@lists.pglaf.org Archives: http://lists.pglaf.org/private.cgi/pgcanada/
PGUS has received perhaps a dozen threats of copyright lawsuits, but once they realized we had actually done our homework, they all just turned out to be people, even lawyers, blowing smoke. Michael
Sorry I am behind... On Wed, 10 Nov 2004, Darryl Moore wrote:
I ask this because Russell McOrmond, who runs the discussion list at www.digital-copyright.ca suggested a different ISP. Do you think you and Russell could discuss and decide the best alternatives for us here?
I have to be careful here as the ISP I suggested was my own. I don't want to be seen as doing self-promotion or anything. We are multi-homed so not as vulnerable to a single ISP shutting things down, but appear to otherwise be in the same situation as the current host (separate company). -- Russell McOrmond, Internet Consultant: <http://www.flora.ca/> Code is Law: how software code regulates the activities of citizens, and acts similar to law. How do we ensure transparency/accountability? http://www.flora.ca/russell/drafts/code-is-law.html
participants (5)
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Andrew Sly -
Darryl Moore -
James Linden -
Michael Hart -
Russell McOrmond