[posted] Language detection error? (Re: Posted (#40466, Sifferath) !)
Al Haines
ajhaines at shaw.ca
Sat Aug 11 13:21:18 PDT 2012
When a copyright clearance is submitted, the only allowed language entry
on the clearance form is a language code, e.g. "en". When the finished
ebook files are later uploaded, that "en" is translated into "English",
which is what comes to the WWers.
I suspect that if this translation can't be done, as apparently with
"oj", either because the copyright submitter or uploader entered an
incorrect or unknown code, the code is passed as-is to the WWers, unless
the uploader intervenes with the full name of the language.
Al
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blower Nigel [mailto:NBlower at Queenedith.cambs.sch.uk]
> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 12:22 PM
> To: Al Haines; gbnewby at pglaf.org
> Cc: 'Project Gutenberg Postings Announcements'; 'Peter Podgor
> ek'; dp-post at pgdp.net; 'Andrew Sly'; 'Marcello Perathoner'
> Subject: RE: Language detection error? (Re: [posted] Posted
> (#40466, Sifferath) !)
>
>
> Thanks for clarifying Al.
>
> On the upload form, where you enter the language, it actually
> says "Main language (two-letter code or single-word language
> name):". The reason I put "oj" instead of "Ojibwa" is that I
> had seen it spelt Ojibwa and Ojibwe, and thought if I entered
> the ISO code there wouldn't be any confusion, and the code
> would match whichever spelling had been decided upon for
> cataloguing at PG.
>
> It appears as though I inadvertantly caused confusion -
> sorry. What I could have done in retrospect is to also add
> the full language name alternatives in the note to WWer. I
> hadn't realised that the language part of it needed manual
> intervention by Al.
>
> Perhaps if the 2 letter code is not good for the WWers, the
> wording on the upload form should be changed.
>
> Thanks to all for sorting this out
> Nigel
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Al Haines [ajhaines at shaw.ca]
> Sent: 11 August 2012 19:42
> To: gbnewby at pglaf.org; Blower Nigel
> Cc: 'Project Gutenberg Postings Announcements'; 'Peter Podgor
> ek'; dp-post at pgdp.net; 'Andrew Sly'; 'Marcello Perathoner'
> Subject: RE: Language detection error? (Re: [posted] Posted
> (#40466, Sifferath) !)
>
> A couple of things happened with this one's language.
>
> Nigel says he entered "oj" on the upload form, which I
> changed to "Ojibwa". (I had to figure this out from the
> uploaded text file.) BUT, I forgot to save the change, which
> left "oj". I'm guessing (and *only*
> guessing) that the posting software saw "oj", didn't
> understand it, and put "English", which is what ended up in
> the catalog. If I had saved the change, "Ojibwa" would have
> been added to PG's list of languages, and the catalog page correct.
>
> When Nigel informed me of this book's bibrec page showing
> English, I tried to correct 40466's language to "Ojibwa", but
> there's no mechanism (that I could see) in the catalog
> back-end software to manually add a new language. (You *can*
> add new authors.) When I did a wild-card search (*) to get
> the full list of available languages, I found "Ojibwa,
> Western", and used it.
>
>
> Hint to DP uploaders: language names should always be written
> in full. It saves the WWers from having to figure out, or ask
> the uploader, what a code means.
>
> Al
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Greg Newby [mailto:gbnewby at pglaf.org]
> > Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 11:22 AM
> > To: Blower Nigel
> > Cc: Project Gutenberg Postings Announcements; Peter Podgor ek;
> > dp-post at pgdp.net; Andrew Sly; Marcello Perathoner; Al Haines
> > Subject: Language detection error? (Re: [posted] Posted (#40466,
> > Sifferath) !)
> >
> >
> > Thanks for this closer look, Nigel. In response, I also
> just took a
> > closer look, and now wonder whether there was a glitch in the Web
> > cataloging or human cataloging. I don't think it was Al
> that entered
> > "Ojibwa, Western," but the automatic post-processing &
> cataloging that
> > happens when new files are posted.
> >
> > Within the text (HTML and .txt) you can see the language is
> Ojibwa, as
> > you submitted:
> > Language: Ojibwa
> >
> > But the bibrec page lists "Ojibwa, Western:"
> > http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/40466
> >
> > It might be that Marcello's automatic cataloging somehow
> matched on a
> > more specific language code (perhaps simply selecting the latest
> > sorted code with a matching string).
> >
> > Based on your input, and the fact that the books do indicate Ojibwa
> > withIN them, I think we should recode ISO 639-3 code "oji", as you
> > indicated below.
> >
> > I'm cc'ing Andrew Sly, who (along with Marcello and I, and a few
> > others) who can "make it so" in the bibrec. But we can see whether
> > others have different opinions or diagnostics.
> >
> > Even if it's "Ojibwa," rather than "Ojibwa, Western", it's a new
> > language for Project Gutenberg. Thanks again,
> > -- Greg
> >
> > On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 05:39:52PM +0100, Blower Nigel wrote:
> > > Hi all
> > >
> > > I'm not sure it is *Western* Ojibwa.
> > >
> > > The project at DP was labelled as Ojibwa, and after I PPVed
> > it, when I
> > > uploaded to PG, I entered the 2 character language code
> > "oj" which is
> > > the ISO 639-1 code for Ojibwa. The WWer, Al Haines, entered
> > "Ojibwa,
> > > Western" in the Bibrec, which is ISO 639-3 code "ojw".
> > >
> > > In my ignorance, I assumed that "Western Ojibwa" was the
> > full name for
> > > Ojibwa. Since Greg's email, I've investigated a bit more,
> and there
> > > are several Ojibwa dialects. Since on the title page Sifferath is
> > > described as Missionary of the Ottawa and Otchipwe Indians,
> > and this
> > > page
> > (http://home.kpn.nl/cvkolmes/ojibwe/Siff/Sifferath.htm) describes
> > > the book as Sifferath's Odaawaa Catechism, perhaps the
> > language would
> > > be better described as "Ottawa", which is ISO 639-3 code
> "otw", or
> > > maybe just Ojibwa, ISO 639-3 code "oji" which is an
> inclusive code,
> > > would be sufficient.
> > >
> > > If you search for Ojibwa on the gutenberg site, some books
> > do come up
> > > which are labelled North American Indian "nai".
> > >
> > > Sorry if any of this confusion is my fault - do let me
> know if you
> > > need me to do anything about it.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Nigel
> > >
> > > ________________________________________
> > > From: Greg Newby [gbnewby at pglaf.org]
> > > Sent: 11 August 2012 15:52
> > > To: Project Gutenberg Postings Announcements
> > > Cc: Blower Nigel; Peter Podgor ek; dp-post at pgdp.net
> > > Subject: Re: [posted] Posted (#40466, Sifferath) !
> > >
> > > This is our first eBook in the language of Western Ojibwa!
> > > -- Greg
> > >
> > > On Thu, Aug 09, 2012 at 01:57:51PM -0700, Al Haines wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A Short Compendium of the Catechism for the Indians, by
> > N. L. Sifferath 40466
> > > > [Subtitle: With the Approbation of the Rt. Rev.
> Frederic Baraga,
> > > > Bishop of Saut Sainte Marie]
> > > > [Other: Frederic Baraga]
> > > > [Language: Ojibwa]
> > > > [Link: http://www.gutenberg.org/4/0/4/6/40466 ]
> > > > [Files: 40466.txt; 40466-h.htm]
> > > >
> > > > Thanks to Peter Podgor?ek, Heiko Evermann and the Online
> > Distributed
> > > > Proofreading Team at http://www.pgdp.net (This book was
> produced
> > > > from scanned images of public domain material from the
> > Google Print
> > > > project and from
> > > > Canadiana.org)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Al
> > >
> > >
> > > Dr. Gregory B. Newby
> > > Chief Executive and Director
> > > Project Gutenberg Literary Archive Foundation www.gutenberg.org A
> > > 501(c)(3) not-for-profit organization with EIN 64-6221541
> > > gbnewby at pglaf.org
> > >
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