September 2004 - gutvol-d - lists.pglaf.org

Re: FW: [gutvol-d] [Fwd: Demande de liens pour pages d'auteurs]
by Greg Newby 12 Sep '04

12 Sep '04

(Forwarding to the list). On Fri, Sep 10, 2004 at 08:13:34PM -0500, John Hagerson wrote: > Many sites demand notification for any link (even to the home page). Because > PG specifically does NOT want to be asked, maybe it would be helpful to put > a short notice along the lines of "you are welcome to link to our home page; > please don't tax our small, volunteer staff by telling us that you plan to > do so; while we can't stop you, we would consider it impolite if you linked > to any other page on our site other than the home page." > > Just a thought. I'm a software engineer, not a lawyer. > > -----Original Message----- > From: gutvol-d-bounces(a)lists.pglaf.org > [mailto:gutvol-d-bounces@lists.pglaf.org] On Behalf Of Greg Newby > Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 5:32 PM > To: gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org > Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] [Fwd: Demande de liens pour pages d'auteurs] > > On Fri, Sep 10, 2004 at 07:47:23PM +0200, Carlo Traverso wrote: > > >>>>> "Marcello" == Marcello Perathoner <marcello(a)perathoner.de> writes: > > > > Marcello> Anybody fluent enough in French to answer this? > > > > Marcello> I think he wants to set links to our pages. No > > Marcello> problem. He should use the canonical link form: > > Marcello> www.gutenberg.net/etext/12345 > > > > > > Yes, he asks the permission to have direct links to PG books. The PG > > policy should be stated in some obvious place, accessible from the > > front page. We have a robots link and not a link for "terms and > > conditions". We should state there how to link to PG books; for > > example, is linking to www.gutenberg.net/etext/12345/12345-h/12345.html > > permitted/forbidden/discouraged? So, should we answer "yes", or "yes, > > but", or "no, but", and on which basis? The exact question he poses is > > > > "I am honored to ask you to be willing to authorize me to have direct > > links to some ebooks in your site". > > > > The rest is a presentation of his site. > > Here's a little blurb I send out, but we don't have it on the Web pages > anywhere: > > > Thanks for taking the time to request permission for a link to Project > Gutenberg, as below. However, no such permission is required, and we > do believe it is a poor precedent for Project Gutenberg to grant it. > > As you probably know, there have been a few legal attempts to block > linking, especially "deep" linking. At least one legal case, in the > UK, was won and one organization was subsequently blocked from deep > linking to another. > > However, in the US there is neither a body of case law nor any state > or federal regulations that we are aware of that would require > permission to set up a hyperlink. > > Project Gutenberg does not encourage deep linking to our Web site and, > in some cases, has actively discouraged it. But a link to the main > page, http://www.gutenberg.net, would be most welcome, and will help > to distribute our free electronic texts. > > Project Gutenberg has no interest or desire to grant permission to any > site linking to us, as it would be a serious burden to our volunteer > staff and set a dangerous precedent from a legal viewpoint. > > Thus, we would like to encourage you to link to Project Gutenberg. In > addition, would be thrilled for you to download all 15000+ eBooks for > your internal use (within the licensing restrictions you will find at > the top of each eBook, see http://gutenberg.net/license) > > Also, note that it is our policy to not provide hyperlinks, ads > or other materials on our Web site or in our FTP collection, except > as it pertains to the collection itself. In other words, we will > not reciprocate with a link to your site, or mention of your site. > > Finally, since you are interested in free etexts, we would like > to invite you to visit our Volunteer's area at http://gutenberg.net > to see how you or your organization could help in bringing great > literature to the world without cost. > > Again, thanks for your interest in Project Gutenberg. > > > > > Marcello> -------- Original Message -------- Date: Fri, 10 Sep > > Marcello> 2004 09:46:59 +0200 To: webmaster(a)gutenberg.net From: > > Marcello> zemirline_mohamed <zemirline_mohamed(a)yahoo.fr> Subject: > > Marcello> Demande de liens pour pages d'auteurs > > > > > > Marcello> Monsieur, > > > > Marcello> J'ai l'Honneur de vous demander de bien vouloir > > Marcello> m'autoriser d'avoir des liens directs à quelques livres > > Marcello> électroniques de votre site. En effet, je prépare un > > Marcello> petit site pour les livres gratuits et votre aide me > > Marcello> serait d'une très grande utilité. Pour l'instant j'ai > > Marcello> un petit site pour les photos : "Tibhirine ou La > > Marcello> Nature": http://membres.lycos.fr/tibhirine Veuillez > > Marcello> croire Monsieur, en mon entière reconnaissance. > > > > Marcello> zemirline_mohamed(a)yahoo.fr M.Zemirline > > > > > > > > > > Marcello> -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster(a)gutenberg.net > > > > Marcello> _______________________________________________ gutvol-d > > Marcello> mailing list gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org > > Marcello> http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > > > > _______________________________________________ > > gutvol-d mailing list > > gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org > > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d

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gutvol-d list does not set Reply-To header
by Marcello Perathoner 11 Sep '04

11 Sep '04

Replies to posts will only get to the originator and not to the list. -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster(a)gutenberg.net

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Re: [gutvol-d] [Fwd: Demande de liens pour pages d'auteurs]
by Joshua Hutchinson 10 Sep '04

10 Sep '04

Sorry, I tried to run it through BabelFish to see if I was remembering my old French classes correctly. I came away more confused by BabelFish's english translation than I was trying to puzzle out the French! Josh ----- Original Message ----- From: Marcello Perathoner <marcello(a)perathoner.de> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:41:00 +0200 To: Project Gutenberg volunteer discussion <gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org> Subject: [gutvol-d] [Fwd: Demande de liens pour pages d'auteurs] > Anybody fluent enough in French to answer this? > > I think he wants to set links to our pages. No problem. He should use > the canonical link form: www.gutenberg.net/etext/12345 > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:46:59 +0200 > To: webmaster(a)gutenberg.net > From: zemirline_mohamed <zemirline_mohamed(a)yahoo.fr> > Subject: Demande de liens pour pages d'auteurs > > > Monsieur, > > J'ai l'Honneur de vous demander de bien vouloir m'autoriser d'avoir > des liens directs > à quelques livres électroniques de votre site. > En effet, je prépare un petit site pour les livres gratuits et votre aide > me serait d'une très > grande utilité. > Pour l'instant j'ai un petit site pour les photos : "Tibhirine ou La > Nature": > http://membres.lycos.fr/tibhirine > Veuillez croire Monsieur, en mon entière reconnaissance. > > zemirline_mohamed(a)yahoo.fr > M.Zemirline > > > > > -- > Marcello Perathoner > webmaster(a)gutenberg.net > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d >

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xml to Braille translator
by Tony Baechler 08 Sep '04

08 Sep '04

Hello. My understanding is that eventually PG will switch to some form of xml for all the ebooks, so the below package might be useful for making Braille embosser ready files for the blind. The only problem might be with creating the semantic files it requires, but if PG is using a standard xml format anyway, this would only have to be done a few times. Computers to Hepp People, Inc. is proud to announce release 0.2 of the xml2brl program, which translates files in xml or plain text into brf files suitable for direct printing on a braille embosser. It now handles some math. Below is the README file for the program, which gives details of usage. To download the program, go to www.chpi.org/whatsnew.html Note that I am not including the somewhat long readme file here.

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an interesting but complicated source for audio books
by Aaron Cannon 06 Sep '04

06 Sep '04

I had an idea today on how we might be able to substantially increase our collection of human read audio books. The National Library Service for the Blind and Physically Handicapped (a division of the LOC) has recorded thousands of titles. They are (obviously) a governmental organization. As such, the audio recordings would not be copyrighted. The only part of the production which may be copyrighted would be the underlying books which were read. So, let's say that, for example, they have the book Dracula. However, the book which they read from was copyright 1981. Would it still be possible to add the audio book to the collection if the text in our public domain version was so similar to the audio recording as to be indistinguishable? Like I said before, I realize that this is a complicated question, but I feel it's worth investigating, as it could add great value to our collection. Sincerely Aaron Cannon -- E-mail: cannona(a)fireantproductions.com Skype: cannona MSN Messenger: cannona(a)hotmail.com (Do not send E-mail to the hotmail address.)

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Re: [gutvol-d] gutvol-d list moved
by Greg Newby 05 Sep '04

05 Sep '04

On Sun, Sep 05, 2004 at 11:50:22AM -0600, Tom Hall wrote: > Never mind - I figured it out: > > I sent the "password" command to gutvol-d-request(a)lists.pglaf.org from > my subscribed address. > > Since I don't find your anouncement in any of my past messages, I'm > copying the list. > > - Tom If you visit http://lists.pglaf.org, there's an option at the bottom for list settings and to unsubscribe. It's not that obvious, since it's a busy page. Enter your email address, then on the next page there's an option to have your password emailed to you (yes, everyone got a *random* password...sorry this is a hassle, but I could not recover passwords from Lyris, and prefer a random password to no password [without a password, someone could easily post a message masquerading as you]). I think I set the list to email a password reminder on the 1st day of every month. I'm not sure how welcome this will be for our lists (some do it, some don't). Advice would be welcome! -- Greg > On Sun, Sep 05, 2004 at 10:55:51AM -0600, Tom Hall wrote: > > How do we discover or set our passwords to allow access to > > http://lists.pglaf.org ? > > > > On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 01:02:28PM -0700, Greg Newby wrote: > > > As long announced, I've moved gutvol-d from listserv.unc.edu > > > to lists.pglaf.org > > > > > > Visit http://lists.pglaf.org if you want to confirm > > > your subscription settings, get on other lists, > > > etc. > > > > > > I'm sending similar announcements to our other lists, so > > > I apologize in advance that some of you will see multiple > > > messages. > > > -- Greg > > > > > > --- > > > For subscription help visit http://listserv.unc.edu > > --- > For subscription help visit http://listserv.unc.edu

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Re: [gutvol-d] Re: unauthorized PG venders (fwd)
by Michael Hart 05 Sep '04

05 Sep '04

> From: Joshua Hutchinson <joshua(a)hutchinson.net> > Try understanding how things work before accusing people of "stealing" > and being "greedy." > > PG texts are completely free. No rights reserved, no nothing. Actually, several hundred of the Project Gutenberg eBooks are copyrighted, and thus cannot be legally resold without receiving permission from the authors or copyright holders. > The PG TRADEMARK ("Project Gutenberg") is not free. If you create a CD with > PG's trademark all over it, you are required to pay licensing fees for that > trademark. If, however, you strip the PG trademark, you can do anything you > want with those texts. Trademark law basically forbids "trading on the good name" of the trademark holder. Thus is it illegal to resell PG eBooks without permission if you use the Project Gutenberg name to do so. Project Gutengerg is a registered trademark. > The reason is basically two-fold. > > 1) PG does need a revenue stream to maintain is admittedly frugal operations. > (In reality, the licensing accounts for almost nothing in revenue. Hence, > the greedy quote is particularly laughable.) > > 2) (And more important, imo) PG has to defend its trademark and good name. > If you are putting together a DVD of texts, but somehow do a flat out > terrible job (ie, half the files on the DVD are corrupted), and PG's > trademark is all over the place, we look bad. PG itself is getting tarnished > by actions outside our control. By putting licensing over the trademark in > place, it gives us *some* control over the content that bears our name. Yes, it is also illegal to diminish the trademark's value in this manner. I send off an inquiry about this, but, as usual, never received a reply. Legally I have to send off such a message to defend the trademark, if you don't, you end up losing the trademark, as with aspirin, ping pong, etc. Apirin was Bayer's trademark, Ping Pong was from Westinghouse, as I recall. mh > > Josh > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Juhana Sadeharju <kouhia(a)nic.funet.fi> > Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 15:09:12 +0300 > To: gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org > Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: unauthorized PG venders > >> On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, Greg Newby wrote: >> >>> On Wed, Aug 25, 2004 at 02:34:06PM -0500, Aaron Cannon wrote: >>>> Just found the following link on google. Is this permitted? I was >>>> under >>>> the impression that the DVD was not supposed to be sold. >>>> >>>> http://www.baccarat-instructions.com/items/6913444126.html >>> >>> Resale for the DVD (unlike the CD) is not explicitly >>> prohibited. >>> >>> He needs to pay trademark royalties, however, and to >>> my knowledge has not done so. >>> >>> Sometimes Michael likes to go after such trademark infringers. > > So, what is this CD and DVD thing? I have never ended up to such issues > with GNU software. What one should do when releasing PG etexts on CDs or > DVDs? Pay royalties? How much? Why the permission to use PG trademark > is not cost-free? Are people being greedy here? > > Would it be enough to remove every reference to Project Gutenberg? > > Yet again: Are the PG etexts free (in GNU like sense) or public domain? > Who has copyrights to the etexts in the PG archives? > > I have a solution: Lets move all etexts to my project Truly Free Etexts. > Then everyone can do anything with them, burn to CDs and DVDs and sell > and re-sell them. The etexts would last forever and nobody can take the > joy away -- this is what happens with GNU software. > > Of course, people should check twice to where contribute etexts. > Apparently PG has not been the best place in terms of freedom. > (Websites have re-copyrighted the PG etexts, and PG persons have > started their own business, PG2, with other's contributions.) > > I would like to remind that it is great gift that old texts > goes to public domain. Lets not abuse this gift. Keep them in > public domain and spread the good word. > > Juhana > -- > http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-graphics-dev > for developers of open source graphics software > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d > > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d >

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Re: [gutvol-d] Re: unauthorized PG venders
by Joshua Hutchinson 02 Sep '04

02 Sep '04

You can do all that just fine as long as you aren't charging for the redistribution. The money only comes into play if your are charging something for the redistributed works. Basically, if you're charging for it, we want our fair cut. If you're handing them out for free, no problem. See you on the flip side, dude! :) JHutch ----- Original Message ----- From: "David A. Desrosiers" <hacker(a)gnu-designs.com> Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 14:47:32 -0400 (EDT) To: gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] Re: unauthorized PG venders > > > Formatting (or reformatting) is not the issue, it's use of the > > trademarked name. > > Agreed, but reformatting would likely include the trademark. > > > If someone creates, say, a PDF format eBook, the question is whether the > > PG trademark is used or not. The reformatting doesn't matter (except > > that it might change from the 15% to the 20% royalty level in the small > > print). > > Ok, so our only real recourse, gives us the right to convert the > works to another format (we're talking about handheld redistribution here) > but not provide any links to PG, or use PG in any of the names or > attribution? Wouldn't that be a copyright _and_ trademark violation, > because we'd be forced to "remove" all references to PG from the actual > works themselves. Obviously, I don't want to do this, because I respect > and support the project. > > Doesn't that make it impossible, since our entire intention would > be to include PG in each of the texts, to draw more readers of the works > and generate some interest in the project. > > Ideally, and I can expand on this if anyone is specifically > interested in the goals and design, we would be splitting the books up to > include pages, chapters, TOC, attribution, and hopefully a PG logo > emblazened across each work. > > I've got a schema and some code designed to suck the entire PG > tree into the db, which we can then tokenize and output in any format we > want. > > It isn't polished or "pretty" yet, we're still in the preliminary > stages, but if we can't redistribute the converted works, giving credit to > PG, the project is dead, full-stop. > > Let me know, because this puts a big kink in the works. > > d. > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d

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Re: [gutvol-d] Re: unauthorized PG venders
by Joshua Hutchinson 02 Sep '04

02 Sep '04

It comes down to two options for you, then. 1) Remove all mention of PG. 2) Send PG a check for 15% of whatever you are charging for your proprietary format. Use of of the PG trademark will cost you money in a commercial endeavour (which this is, if money changes hands, no matter what spin you try to put on it). Josh ----- Original Message ----- From: "David A. Desrosiers" <hacker(a)gnu-designs.com> Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 15:41:56 -0400 (EDT) To: gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] Re: unauthorized PG venders > > > You can do all that just fine as long as you aren't charging for the > > redistribution. The money only comes into play if your are charging > > something for the redistributed works. Basically, if you're charging > > for it, we want our fair cut. If you're handing them out for free, no > > problem. See you on the flip side, dude! :) > > Right, and thats the catch.. > > We'd be handing the works out for free in person at LUGs and such, > but for those people that want _our version_ of the converted works, which > involves quite a bit of hand-editing as well as several passes of > post-processing to convert them to our (open and documented) portable > format, shipped to them on hard-media (CD or DVD), we would (potentially) > charge for the media and for the time/effort expended to convert them all. > > We're not actually charging for the works themselves. > > I realize it seems grey, but it is distinctly different. > > d. > > _______________________________________________ > gutvol-d mailing list > gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org > http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d >

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Re: [gutvol-d] Re: unauthorized PG venders
by Joshua Hutchinson 02 Sep '04

02 Sep '04

Try understanding how things work before accusing people of "stealing" and being "greedy." PG texts are completely free. No rights reserved, no nothing. The PG TRADEMARK ("Project Gutenberg") is not free. If you create a CD with PG's trademark all over it, you are required to pay licensing fees for that trademark. If, however, you strip the PG trademark, you can do anything you want with those texts. The reason is basically two-fold. 1) PG does need a revenue stream to maintain is admittedly frugal operations. (In reality, the licensing accounts for almost nothing in revenue. Hence, the greedy quote is particularly laughable.) 2) (And more important, imo) PG has to defend its trademark and good name. If you are putting together a DVD of texts, but somehow do a flat out terrible job (ie, half the files on the DVD are corrupted), and PG's trademark is all over the place, we look bad. PG itself is getting tarnished by actions outside our control. By putting licensing over the trademark in place, it gives us *some* control over the content that bears our name. Josh ----- Original Message ----- From: Juhana Sadeharju <kouhia(a)nic.funet.fi> Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 15:09:12 +0300 To: gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org Subject: [gutvol-d] Re: unauthorized PG venders >On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, Greg Newby wrote: > >> On Wed, Aug 25, 2004 at 02:34:06PM -0500, Aaron Cannon wrote: >>> Just found the following link on google. Is this permitted? I was under >>> the impression that the DVD was not supposed to be sold. >>> >>> http://www.baccarat-instructions.com/items/6913444126.html >> >> Resale for the DVD (unlike the CD) is not explicitly >> prohibited. >> >> He needs to pay trademark royalties, however, and to >> my knowledge has not done so. >> >> Sometimes Michael likes to go after such trademark infringers. So, what is this CD and DVD thing? I have never ended up to such issues with GNU software. What one should do when releasing PG etexts on CDs or DVDs? Pay royalties? How much? Why the permission to use PG trademark is not cost-free? Are people being greedy here? Would it be enough to remove every reference to Project Gutenberg? Yet again: Are the PG etexts free (in GNU like sense) or public domain? Who has copyrights to the etexts in the PG archives? I have a solution: Lets move all etexts to my project Truly Free Etexts. Then everyone can do anything with them, burn to CDs and DVDs and sell and re-sell them. The etexts would last forever and nobody can take the joy away -- this is what happens with GNU software. Of course, people should check twice to where contribute etexts. Apparently PG has not been the best place in terms of freedom. (Websites have re-copyrighted the PG etexts, and PG persons have started their own business, PG2, with other's contributions.) I would like to remind that it is great gift that old texts goes to public domain. Lets not abuse this gift. Keep them in public domain and spread the good word. Juhana -- http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-graphics-dev for developers of open source graphics software _______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d(a)lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d

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