October 2011 - gutvol-d - lists.pglaf.org

these grapes are sweet -- lesson #18
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 04 Oct '11

04 Oct '11

this thread explains how to digitize a book quickly and easily. search archive.org for "booksculture00mabiuoft" for the book. *** again, here's spellcheck run against grapes006.txt: > http://zenmarkuplanguage.com/grapes115.py > http://zenmarkuplanguage.com/grapes115.txt this tells us what words we still need to add to our "specials" dictionary, so we'll overlay that file now: > http://zenmarkuplanguage.com/grapes-006-specials.txt and we'll run a the spellcheck using that full "specials": > http://zenmarkuplanguage.com/grapes116.py > http://zenmarkuplanguage.com/grapes116.txt this shows us we've attained a null "notfound" list, so we can create a custom unique dictionary for the book. and here's the newest version of the text-file, which now includes the formatting and styling information: > http://zenmarkuplanguage.com/grapes007.txt i also modified the pagenumbers and runheads so they would take the form z.m.l. uses "traditionally". -bowerbird

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these grapes are sweet -- lesson #23
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 04 Oct '11

04 Oct '11

this thread explains how to digitize a book quickly and easily. search archive.org for "booksculture00mabiuoft" for the book. *** again, here's our z.m.l. "master", the latest version of our text: > http://zenmarkuplanguage.com/grapes007.txt so now we're generating e-books from this "master" .zml file. it's important to recognize that we're building all our e-books from this single text-file, minimizing our file-handling chores. in our last lesson, we created a .mobi e-book, for the kindle. today we do the code that generates material for the .epub... .epub is more complicated -- _not_ "more sophisticated", just more _complicated_ -- because we have to "chop up" the book into chunks that are no bigger than 300k, because some of the .epub viewer-programs were evidently coded by sick baboons, and can't handle any more text than 300k or they will choke... this includes the viewer-app from adobe, which incorporates d.r.m., and is often required by corporate publishing houses, so sometimes you have no option to use some other viewer... so now people all over the world have to chop up our e-books, because the coders at adobe are incompetent at what they do... hurray for .epub! aren't you glad we finally have "a standard"? i find this whole idea of chopping up the book very distasteful. it reminds me of the way you have to chop up a piece of meat into teensy-tiny pieces so grampa -- who's lost all his teeth -- can gum it successfully. life shouldn't need to be this difficult. at any rate, here is the code that creates a folder of .html files: > http://zenmarkuplanguage.com/grapes123.py > http://zenmarkuplanguage.com/grapes123.txt and here's the subdirectory where those files were created: > http://zenmarkuplanguage.com/grapes123-folder this folder of files can then be dropped on "epubzip", which is a little app that zips up the folder in the way .epub requires... (they made it so you couldn't use just _any_ old zip-program, because that would have been far too simple and made sense.) once you've dropped the folder onto "epubzip", you'll get this: > http://zenmarkuplanguage.com/grapes123-folder.epub you'll then wanna drop that .epub onto "epubcheck", to ensure it validates your parking for you. love that validated parking... *** again, as before, this code is _not_ "hardened", nor does it handle anything over and above which was in this p-book -- entirely headers and paragraphs save for a few blockquotes -- because it is the minimal set needed to do _this_book_... so it's nothing more than "proof of concept". but it _is_ that. *** so we've got a kindle and an .epub. now we just need a .pdf... -bowerbird

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Re: [gutvol-d] these grapes are sweet -- lesson #21c
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 04 Oct '11

04 Oct '11

roger said: > Are you showing off or trying to advance the art? first, i don't know what happened to grapes120.py. i fully intended to put that one up, so i'll dig it out. it basically just said, "your dictionary is complete". and no, i'm not releasing scripts in the 200-series. for reasons that should become very clear shortly. *** ok, here's the deal, roger... :+) if i give you the code that creates the viewer, then you'll say "...but we can't edit the text..." and if i then give you code that lets you edit, you'll say "...but this just saves out each page, when what we wanna do is view the diffs, and cumulate the pages into a book, and...", etc. i don't wish to participate in one-way giving... in the past, i haven't shared _any_ of my code. during the "babelfish" thread, from last year, i invited people on this listserve to collaborate with me, as i guided a process of writing code, but nobody contributed anything to the thread -- absolutely _nothing_ at all, from _anyone_ -- so i took down that thread before it got going... so this time around, a year or so later, i decided to take the thread through to its full conclusion, and post the code that i wrote in the process of it, despite the fact that i would get zero cooperation. but that doesn't mean i'm willing to just hand over _everything_. i decide what i give, and what i don't. just like you do. and just like everyone else does. i am boiling a bunch of lobsters in a kettle, roger... and every six months or so, i turn up the heat a bit. so yeah, probably in six months, i'll give y'all the viewer-code. six months later, the editing code. and six months after that, the cumulation code... or maybe not. as long as i give people applications that work, i feel like i have contributed to the cause, even if i keep my source-code to myself, thank you. so you really need to be appreciative for what i give, rather than trying to spotlight what i _haven't_ given. because that kind of focus is just gonna piss me off. and i can tell you why... see, roger, i've been boiling these lobsters for years. literally _years_. it started off with me telling them that they could turn project gutenberg's plain e-texts into beautiful e-books, using "zen markup language". the lobsters scoffed. they told me that i was crazy. i knew i wasn't crazy, because i had _working_code_ on my hard-drive that _proved_ that i was correct... but they scoffed. said the only way to get e-books was to mark the text up with _x.m.l._... well, it was plainly obvious to me (and anyone with half a brain) that their x.m.l. was _too_complex_ to be a solution -- at least one that depended on p.g. volunteers -- so i persisted, said my proof was on my hard-drive. and they persisted, _daring_ me to prove 'em wrong; they said i _lied_ about what was on my hard-drive! well, again, as i said, i had working code that proved that i was right and they were wrong, so i could have revealed all, right then and there, and been finished. but this was too much fun. they were actually _betting_ their own _credibility_ about what i had on my hard-drive. how _stupid_! they couldn't know what i had on my hard-drive, so why would they be so stupid as to make a bet on it? if i was lying, i'd know it, so i wouldn't take the bet. so if i was gonna take the bet, that was meaningful. so it was dumb for them even to _propose_ the deal; it's like betting me if i can _miss_ a basketball shot. of course i can _miss_ it -- just toss the ball away... why would they _ever_ make a bet like that? stupid! so i played them like the ignorant asses they are... i let 'em get all cocky, thinking they'd defeated me, turning 'em into lobsters who crawled in my kettle. so then i started turning the heat up, little by little. first i showed them one thing. then another thing. the next thing, and the thing that came after that... and every time they did their "yeah, but...", i would refute their point with solid proof to the contrary... they gradually stopped attacking, and grew sullen. after a couple years, it finally dawned on them that they'd been taken. but it was far too late by then... then a couple years later, marcello had to admit _total_defeat_ by using a light-markup approach. the .tei/.xml route wasn't gonna put p.g. e-texts on the kindle or the ipad, and marcello knew it... meanwhile, i continue to enjoy turning up the heat. i am doing it to this day, roger, proving them to be stupid asses who bet, and lost, their own credibility about what i had in my pocket. they were so dumb. i understand that you want to just _eat_ the lobsters. but, frankly, i'm having too much fun cooking them. *** but anyway... let me be very clear in speaking to you, roger... you're not one of the assholes i talk about above. you weren't here back then, or at least not posting. it is the case, however, that you _have_ said some untrue and unflattering things about me at times, and never apologized. it's ok, i can take the heat. but you're really not in a position to upbraid me... having said that, though, i don't hold a grudge, and i respect a lot of the work that you've done. this especially applies to the coding you've done, making tools, and setting up a proofing website. but it's precisely because of this that i'm perplexed. what is it, exactly, about the viewer-script which is something that you are not capable of coding? why do you ask me for code that you can write? indeed, for code that you have _already_written_? (your proofing site needed code exactly like that.) but even if you hadn't already written such code, the viewer-script is little more than summoning the text for a page plus the scan for that page... (the other big part is the logic of the html-form, but that is largely contained in the .html itself, so simply viewing the source will reveal all that.) so i am curious about why you'd make a big deal about the viewer-script; it's rather primitive code. indeed, the _search_ code, which i _did_ provide, is more advanced, and more thoughtful as well... and -- just to put the finishing touch on this -- if you go back, you'll see that the search code included the option of showing a specific page, thus creating a foundation for the viewer-script. i'm a little surprised you didn't recognize that it was the key that would unlock that door for you. anyway, roger, if you wanna discuss this stuff, i'm open. you're the only guy around who can talk about it at a level where i just might learn a thing or two from a conversation with you... -bowerbird

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these grapes are sweet -- lesson #21c
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 04 Oct '11

04 Oct '11

this thread explains how to digitize a book quickly and easily. search archive.org for "booksculture00mabiuoft" for the book. *** i said: > i left them in, because i was curious to see if anyone noticed. > evidently, nobody paid enough attention to notice. oh well... of course, i also presented the _errors_ incorrectly, with the "error" and "fixed" labels reversed, and nobody commented about that, either, so it appears nobody is paying attention. but that's ok, folks. i keep myself mightily amused with it all. this is just good fodder for those future cyber-archeologists, so they realize we weren't _all_ stupid idiots about e-books... for the record, i've appended the correct version of the chart. *** now, let's have a little more fun with the cleaning dimension. if you're new here, you might've noticed something "curious" about this last stage of the clean-up job, where i _evaluated_ how well we'd done by comparing the text to a "clean" copy... and you might have thought to yourself, "well, that's great, but the problem is that you usually don't _have_ a clean copy, which is why you are cleaning the text to begin with, so that does not work as some kind of 'general solution' for us". and you would be right. or at least half-right. for at least as far as you went... but there are some interesting wrinkles just beneath the surface. because it ends up that we can use another _incorrect_ copy of the digitized text to help ourselves find the errors in our work; i.e., the "comparison" copy doesn't necessarily have to be clean. here's the strategy: you compare the second digitization, which let us say (for the purpose of illustration) is another set of o.c.r., with the current digitization, on a line-by-line basis throughout. for each pair of compared lines, there are 5 possibilities: 1. the lines match, and each of them is correct. 2. the lines match, and each of them is incorrect. 3. the lines don't match, and your current copy is correct.4 4. the lines don't match, and the second digitization is correct. 5. the lines don't match, and neither digitization is correct. if o.c.r. is generally correct, and we know that yes, it is indeed, the first scenario is the one that will happen most of the time... for the time being, we'll put aside the second scenario. for the remaining 3 scenarios, we can compare the line in our current digitization to the pagescan, and correct it if required (which will be in the cases which fall under scenarios 4 and 5). in the case of scenario 3, we'll look at the line, see it's correct, and leave it as it is. it was a little work, but no harm was done. the secret of this approach is that a _difference_ between the two lines in our pair will flag that line so that we examine it... whether it's right or wrong is immaterial, since we _look_ at it. and since the number of nonmatching pairs of lines is _small_ (relative to the number that match because they're both correct) this approach is relatively good at finding the _incorrect_ lines... indeed, the only case that gives us any pause at all is scenario 2, where the lines match, but each of them happens to be incorrect. now, i can't blame you if you think scenario 2 will be common... it kinda makes sense that if one o.c.r. makes an error on a line, that a second o.c.r. pass would make that identical error again... and in such a case, they'd both match, but they'd both be wrong. but how about if we do an empirical test of that assumption, eh? indeed, how about doing _lots_and_lots_ of empirical tests of it? i've done just that -- lots of empirical tests of that assumption -- and my research has shown very strongly that it is _not_ the case. and i can demonstrate it once again, by using our current book... *** if you look, you'll see there's another digitization of this book done by internet archive. it's from the university of california, whereas the first copy was scanned at the university of toronto. here's the term to search for in order to find the second copy: > booksandculture00mabirich here's the landing page for it: > http://www.archive.org/details/booksandculture00mabirich and here's the o.c.r. text for it: > http:// ia700303.us.archive.org/10/items/booksandculture00mabirich/booksandculture0… now, there are a lot of things to dislike about that second copy. first and foremost, you'll notice that it's missing its em-dashes. i'm serious; the em-dashes are missing in action, gone entirely! it's _also_ missing many of the end-of-line hyphens, and some apostrophes as well, but let's just focus on the em-dashes now. look at page 30 to see all three of the missing-in-action cases: > http://z-m-l.com/go/mabie/mabiep030.jpg this is a very common problem with books from internet archive. it's a serious problem -- a fatal problem, really -- and yet it is a problem that has infested far too many books in their library... it's downright embarrassing... i would be _ashamed_ to put out books that were missing their em-dashes like that, but evidently the people at internet archive do not have any problem with it... because i informed them about these glitches many _years_ ago. and -- when they ignored me -- i _continued_ to inform them... and when they _still_ ignored me, i finally started to pester them. and i pestered them for _years_, until finally they agreed to _fix_ those em-dash problems... and so i waited for them to do that... and i waited. and i waited. and i waited some more. until finally, i got tired of waiting, and i asked 'em why they hadn't fixed them. and i was ignored. and brushed off. and they called me names, and asked me why _i_ was being so difficult. they blamed _me_! hey, i wasn't the person who was losing their damn em-dashes... so i continued to pester them... until finally they _banned_ me... and now, years and years and years later, some of their e-texts -- like this one we're viewing right now -- have no em-dashes... they should be ashamed of themselves. they should be disgraced. but instead, they are putting out press-releases, and trumpeting how wonderful they are, now that kindle is grabbing their books. evidently, they don't expect those kindle people to actually _read_ their e-books, and discover what a big load of crap their o.c.r. is. and i would say it directly to their face: you should be ashamed. *** anyway... though i wouldn't advocate using this second copy of the book for a full-on comparison, since you'd have to "work around" all the missing characters, we can certainly take a quick look at the 16 lines in our first book which had errors in them, to evaluate... we find 12 of the 16 -- _75%_ -- were correct in the second book. here are those 12: > plete expressions, in that concrete > The latest of them, Count Tolstoi s > The reality of this element of per > all they saw and knew a part of them > process, and culture and genius stand > there has always been, not only a > stories and constantly touched upon > exploration, travel, and discovery ; he > There are, it is true, a few men and > from the days of the earliest Greek > sion, thought, impulse, which never > grance, and growth which lie enfolded in other words, most of the time, the two sets of o.c.r. did _not_ have matching errors. one got it right -- the other got it wrong. so this comparison could've reduced our error-count for this book to _4_ errors, out of 279 pages, which is an extremely good payoff for a proofing procedure that -- unlike distributed proofreaders -- did not require a painful word-by-word comparison page-by-page. which is _not_ to say a "smooth-reading" wouldn't be a good thing. because it would be a good thing. but let's have people who _want_ to read this particular book be the ones who do the smooth-reading. *** so, all in all, this _comparison_ methodology is far superior to the word-by-word method now employed by distributed proofreaders, providing benefits which are comparable but at a _far_ lower cost. this is a methodology that can _scale_ to the required dimensions, unlike the d.p. way, which has stalled out at 2,500 e-texts a year... and yes, i told this to the people over at distributed proofreaders. you can still find it, still sitting there, in a thread on their forums: > http://www.pgdp.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=24008 what did d.p. do? they banned me too. seemed to be going around. -bowerbird ===================================== p.s. all in all, the results were very good. recall the book is over 200k, and 279 pages. *** 16 lines with o.c.r. errors going uncaught, most of which were involving _punctuation_. 2 were on a name, which we shoulda checked. wrong> plete expressions. In that concrete fixed> plete expressions, in that concrete chstr> =================^=^=============== wrong> and exhausts while he instructs, the fixed> and exhausts while he instructs; the chstr> ===============================^==== wrong> bought Gary's crib, and took it with fixed> bought Cary's crib, and took it with chstr> =======^============================ wrong> read my Gary's Plato. It so hap- fixed> read my Cary's Plato. It so hap- chstr> ========^======================= wrong> The latest of them. Count Tolstoi's fixed> The latest of them, Count Tolstoi's chstr> ==================^================ wrong> mass the facts about any given period, fixed> mass the facts about any given period; chstr> =====================================^ wrong> The reality of this, element of per- fixed> The reality of this element of per- chstr> ===================^---------------- wrong> ail they saw and knew a part of them- fixed> all they saw and knew a part of them- chstr> =^=================================== wrong> process, and culture and genius stand, fixed> process, and culture and genius stand chstr> =====================================^ wrong> there has always been, not only a fixed> there has always been not only a chstr> =====================^----------- wrong> stones and constantly touched upon fixed> stories and constantly touched upon chstr> ===^^------------------------------ wrong> exploration, travel, and discovery; ha fixed> exploration, travel, and discovery; he chstr> =====================================^ wrong> There are. It is true, a few men and fixed> There are, it is true, a few men and chstr> =========^=^======================== wrong> from the days of the earliest Greek, fixed> from the days of the earliest Greek chstr> ===================================^ wrong> sion, thought. Impulse, which never fixed> sion, thought, impulse, which never chstr> =============^=^=================== wrong> grance, and growth which he enfolded fixed> grance, and growth which lie enfolded chstr> =========================^^----------

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these grapes are sweet -- lesson #22
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 03 Oct '11

03 Oct '11

this thread explains how to digitize a book quickly and easily. search archive.org for "booksculture00mabiuoft" for the book. *** here's the latest version of our text, all cleaned and formatted: > http://zenmarkuplanguage.com/grapes007.txt so now we wanna start generating e-books from this "master". ok, here's code that kicks out an .html file which _kindlegen_ -- amazon's free .mobi generator -- can use to create a .mobi. (you can download kindlegen from the amazon.com website.) > http://zenmarkuplanguage.com/grapes122.py > http://zenmarkuplanguage.com/grapes122.txt the .html file that's generated is here: > http://zenmarkuplanguage.com/grapes122.html that .html file can be input to the kindlegen app, which will turn it into a .mobi that can be read just fine, but it will _lack_ a few niceties, including a cover, a table of contents, and ncx (which is another table of contents, because i don't know why). so, because we don't want to be second-class in any fashion, here are the other files you'll need in order to be first-class: > http://zenmarkuplanguage.com/grapes122.jpg > http://zenmarkuplanguage.com/grapes122.opf.txt > http://zenmarkuplanguage.com/grapes122.ncx.txt so download/save all three... the .jpg is straightforward, but you'll remove the ".txt" extension from the .ncx and .opf files -- the ".txt" is so those files will display in a web-browser -- and then move all of them (plus the .html file, of course) into the folder where your kindlegen program is located, and then execute the kindlegen program by pointing it to the .opf file... you should get out a mobi that looks like this: > http://zenmarkuplanguage.com/grapes122.mobi considering the fact that we defined no styles, i think the .mobi looks astoundingly good, except the headers are not centered. of course, since you've got the code, "customize as desired..." and no sir, that code won't extrapolate to anything other than other books which are dead-simple. you'll need to harden it, so it becomes robust to the exceptions which inevitably occur, and expand it, so that it can handle challenges which pop up... but that's not my aim here. i'm just showing you it's possible. *** our kindle work is done. in the next lesson, we'll do .epub... -bowerbird

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the importance of creating an infrastructure
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 02 Oct '11

02 Oct '11

another important thing which i should've mentioned in my last response to keith is that both amazon and apple have created ecosystems which surround their machines. it's not just that they have millions and millions of users, but that this broad base creates an entire infrastructure, because amazon and apple concentrated on that aspect. a lot of the time, this is condemned as "a walled garden", where the criticisms are aimed at the "walled" part of it, but it's also important to understand the "garden" part... the other companies trying to deliver hardware expect us to live in a barren desert, or at best a weed-infested patch. but if/when there is an _infrastructure_ around machinery, it attracts focus and resourcefulness which create synergy. here's an example of that, a browser plug-in which sends the contents of a web-page to your kindle viewer-program: > http://sendtoreader.com/ > http://kindleworld.blogspot.com/2011/03/want-to-try-out-free-web-app.html -bowerbird

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Re: [gutvol-d] a new bevy of kindles
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 01 Oct '11

01 Oct '11

keith said: > I think there is more Hype to the Fire > than at first meets the eye. you have a few good points... but overall, i believe that you're wrong, wrong, wrong. at any rate, it simply doesn't matter what you or i think, as it is _the_marketplace_ which will make the decision about all this. but, to return to the land of opinion again, my observation is that jeff bezos has a much better sense of that marketplace than you do. you -- with a legion of fellow naysayers -- have been pronouncing the kindle a "failure" all along, but bezos keeps increasing the heat on the pot of lobsters on the top of his stove... power and possibilities keep going up and up, and the price keeps going down, down, down... against all the other fumbling bumbling idiots in silicon valley which are not named "apple", this credible competitor is a breath of fresh air. and all the more fascinating because it's playing to its _strength_, which is different from apple's. the idiots, on the other hand, try to mimic apple, and end up with their faces planted in concrete... > As for the other kindles some improvements, > but read the specs carefully. specs, shmecs. > Special offer! Add $30 for advertisement free! some people make a big deal about the ads... even though they only play on the splashscreen; they are _not_ shown inside the books per se... my impression is that it is very interesting that we now have an extremely accurate measure of the value of those ads to the entity selling them. via its pricing, amazon informs us that it makes about $30/machine from the advertising it does. framed against the backdrop of an $80 machine, that's quite a revealing revelation, doncha think? besides... to everyone who really hates ads, $30 is a cheap price to pay to get rid of them. enjoy the option. > Battery life for 1 month when > reading only for half an hour a day!! seriously? you're complaining about battery-life? end-users _overwhelmingly_ consider battery-life as one of the biggest _assets_ of e-ink machines, as well they should. this just shows how desperate you are to have something to complain about, keith. as for the "half-an-hour a day" nature of the claim, that's easy to understand if you know some history. for years, amazon made its claims based on a rate of one-hour-a-day usage. then kobo came along, and claimed battery-life that was "twice as long", except based on a rate of just half-an-hour-daily. (if you are rolling your eyes at the stupidity, i dig; this shows how desperate kobo was for any edge.) so amazon changed the nature of its claim's rating. do you think it should have done otherwise? what? > Only 6" screen. if you don't consider that "the right size", don't buy. > The Fire seems interesting, but to state some facts: > 1) 8 GB half that of iPad with amazon's cloud strategy, that's more than enough... > 2) 7" Screen smaller than iPad that's "the right size", exactly, for the target market. > 3) roughly similar battery life. right. roughly similar superb, outstanding battery-life. > 4) missing a 3G option if true, then yes, this will be a big loss for some people. other people seem to live in a wifi bubble, and won't care. > 5) processing power hard to say, > they do not mention what is inside! we'll see if people think the machine operates slowly. what's interesting to note is that amazon is _bragging_ about the speed you will get from its browser, which is utilizing the cloud-strategy which i mentioned above... > They push the silk browser for speed! But, why! > Sure it is nice, but you still have to push the data. > So, the processor must have some short comings. what do you expect from a chip that is that cheap? > All in all, a some what rushed product! wrong. > Price wise from looking at the specs > the same price to feature ratio as the iPad. the same price-to-feature ratio, but at a _lower_ price. thank goodness bezos pushes the edge of the envelope. > On the other side the iPad2 is > not ready for prime time for me either. and yet tens of millions of people are ecstatic with it. i think you're out of touch, keith, and badly at that... -bowerbird

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Re: [gutvol-d] a bevy of new kindles
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 01 Oct '11

01 Oct '11

keith, if you really want to pursue this discussion, i can provide a wide-ranging response throughout, but for right now, let us just cut to the chase, ok? while you're certainly entitled to your opinion that the kindle and the ipad are overpriced, which gives an explanation for your decision not to buy either, i hope you would also understand why some people _might_ consider your opinion to be "uninformed". let me put it this way: millions of people are happy -- quite often _deliriously_ so -- with their kindles. this includes people who thought they would hate it, but who received it as a gift, and learned otherwise. in a similar vein, _millions_and_millions_ of people are happy with their ipads -- many to a degree that surprised them, or even shocked them, even though they had expected that they would like the machine. (you can chalk me down as an ipad happy customer.) imagine that... happy customers. not just "satisfied", but _happy_! customers who feel like they got their money's worth, and more. in 2011. unbelievable. who'da thunk it? would i like to get twice the machine at half the price? well... sure i would... obviously. really, who wouldn't? but do i think i've been "overcharged"? not by a mile. so will i buy at least one kindle as a christmas present? yeah, as a matter of fact, i most certainly will do that... and will you see me standing in line to buy an ipad3? well, no, you won't, because i don't stand in lines, but as soon as i can walk into an apple store and buy one and carry it out with me, you can bet that i will do that. -bowerbird

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these grapes are sweet -- lesson #21b
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 01 Oct '11

01 Oct '11

this thread explains how to digitize a book quickly and easily. search archive.org for "booksculture00mabiuoft" for the book. *** oh, by the way, now that we're _adults_ and all of that, i can tell you that there were a few bugs in some of my routines... bad bugs, bugs which caused some data (i.e., text) to be lost. i left them in, because i was curious to see if anyone noticed. evidently, nobody paid enough attention to notice. oh well... at least now you know... anyway, do have a nice weekend... :+) -bowerbird

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