- gutvol-d - lists.pglaf.org

here's a pure-signal demo
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 09 Feb '06

09 Feb '06

jose menendez has created a "digital reprint" of the "my antonia" scan-set as a .pdf: > http://www.ibiblio.org/ebooks/Cather/ aside from the facts that he created it using ms-word and delivered it as a pdf, this demo is remarkable in that it _replicates_ the scans but does so with _digital_text_ (which can be copied and searched), and only uses 2 megs instead of the 30+ required by the scanset. in addition, the text is completely clean, with none of the faded or incomplete characters that are all-too-common with the scans... you'll note that -- in order to replicate scans -- it's necessary to retain the original linebreaks, so i once again request that p.g./d.p. do that. it's just a shame to throw meaningful info away. also note that the .pdf file uses _soft_hypens_ in those words that were end-line hyphenated; these soft-hyphens can be eliminated to rejoin the words so that searches are done correctly and so that the text can be reflowed if desired. this demo can be improved by removing the proprietary ms-word from the process, but nonetheless this .pdf indicates a crucial step in the process of "round-tripping", namely to be able to replicate the look of a scan-set. "round-tripping" wasn't jose's objective, but his example is instructive anyway... this fluency of text to morph effortlessly between the frozen state of 20th-century paper-book and the fluidity of the 21st-century electronic-book is exactly what we should strive for in our efforts... i'll be posting more on the topic of "round-tripping" as i do further work expanding on jose's demo, but i wanted to give you a heads-up on it right away... -bowerbird

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!@! -- more pure-tone signal
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 05 Feb '06

05 Feb '06

michael- you might've missed my request from yesterday morning for you to specify what you would like to receive from me -- error reports, sample e-texts, source-code, whatever -- so i'm repeating it again now... i've got an abundance of material of all types, so feel free! -bowerbird

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Related project of interest: Librivox
by Gardner Buchanan 04 Feb '06

04 Feb '06

I happened to hear Hugh McGuire interviewed on CBC Radio One yesterday. He was talking about an interesting project that I hadn't previously known. I though I'd mention it here in case anyone else is interested: http://www.librivox.org/ LibriVox volunteers record chapters of books in the public domain, and then we release the audio files back onto the net (podcast and catalog). Our objective is to make all books in the public domain available, for free, in audio format on the internet. We are a totally volunteer, open source, free content, public domain project. ============================================================ Gardner Buchanan <gbuchana(a)rogers.com> Ottawa, ON FreeBSD: Where you want to go. Today.

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We have a picture of Mohammed in hell
by Marcello Perathoner 04 Feb '06

04 Feb '06

... in the Divine Comedy by Dante, Illustrated by Gustave Doré in Canto XXVIII: http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/8789 -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster(a)gutenberg.org

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pure-tone range
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 04 Feb '06

04 Feb '06

michael- our signal-to-noise ratio has deteriorated, so let's elevate this back to pure-tone range, ok? tell me exactly what you would like from me -- in the form of reports, examples, or whatever -- and specify how many of them you'd like, and i'll do my best to provide, or tell you why i can't oblige... :+) -bowerbird

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re: !@!Re: [gutvol-d] blah blah blog
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 04 Feb '06

04 Feb '06

michael said: > First things first. . .before changing ALL files, > let's try changing SOME files, eh? before changing _some_ files, let's try _one_, eh? my z.m.l. version of alice in wonderland has been up for a while now. consider it submitted to p.g. failing that, you could do the minimum necessary, which is to eliminate of one extra carriage return. that's what some of these changes boil down to, a carriage-return added here, or deleted there, brackets put around a footnote, things like that. and i could generate a list of tens of thousands of such changes, involving thousands of e-texts and therefore, probably twice that many files... your whitewashers will tell you their workflows cannot handle a spectrum of changes that vast. at least that is my understanding of the situation, one that indicates that your grasp of it is tenuous. but i enjoy it when someone proves me wrong! :+) so, if i see you are willing to fix that _one_ file, then i can generate _some_ more, if you want... but your people still haven't gotten around to correcting the errors i noted on "a secret garden". (at least i hope they "haven't gotten around to it" yet, because if they did actually act on my report, their performance was dismaying, even abysmal.) and the errors i found on "swiss family robinson" are _still_ there. so it certainly seems to me that your error-correction machine ain't working well. > That's the way to get yourself some volunteers. michael, i don't know how many times i need to say this to you before you finally "get" it -- but i am not _looking_ for any volunteers. i simply don't need any; i'll be happy to do the job myself. (the task is largely automated by now, so the only need for a human is in the quality-control arena, and i'm quite happy to leave that up to end-users.) now, if _you_ want to find some volunteers who will help make _your_ library consistent, then i _might_ be willing to help you out in that regard, but your _first_ task would be to convince yourself that your whitewashers will actually support the drive. > Or, barring that, you are welcome to download ALL > files you can get your hands on, by hook or crook, by hook or crook? they're all available for downloading. > and work on them to your heart's content or form, > and republish them here, or elsewhere. i believe you need to check with your whitewashers before you offer to "republish them here". but yes, republishing elsewhere is precisely what i will do, once i get around to making them all consistent... > As always, you are welcome to address all of the > Whitewashers individually or as a collection, to > make whatever point[s] you wish. i'm "addressing" them by posting to this listserve... whether or not they choose to engage, who cares? as long as i go down on the record, i'm satisfied... > The one thing about volunteers, you have to > SELL them on your ideas. if i ever decide i need volunteers for something, i'll keep that in mind. -bowerbird

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re: !@!Re: [gutvol-d] blah blah blog
by Joshua Hutchinson 04 Feb '06

04 Feb '06

> ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bowerbird(a)aol.com > and i could generate a list of tens of thousands > of such changes, involving thousands of e-texts > and therefore, probably twice that many files... > That isn't how it works. You can't just generate a list of "fixes" and hand it off to someone else to do the hard work. YOU need to do the work if it is something you feel needs to be done. Take a file, fix all the problems, upload the fixes to PG and the file will get reposted. If you want to include your "list" with the upload, that's fine. It'll will allow some easier double-checking of your work. I doubt you'll ever come close to doing this, since it would be useful work and I've never seen you do any, but that's what the process is. Josh

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re: !@!Re: [gutvol-d] blah blah blog
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 03 Feb '06

03 Feb '06

josh said: > You can't just generate a list of "fixes" and > hand it off to someone else to do the hard work. well first, it _is_ acceptable -- and _perfectly_ so -- for a person to submit a simple report of an error (or even a complex report of thousands of errors) without generating all the "corrected" files themself. indeed, i'd guess _most_ error-reports are just that. (and surely, for someone who might find one typo, you don't want to receive a full set of files from them, you just want 'em to tell you where the typo is located.) but even aside from that, josh, don't split hairs. i could hand the whitewashers "a list of fixes" _and_ updated files _and_ complete changelogs _and_ the program i used to complete the task, which they could continue to use in the future to check new files to ensure they're consistent. and those whitewashers _still_ couldn't process thousands of updated e-texts in one fell swoop, not under their present updating policy, which calls for them to run through all their checks to move an e-text to the new directory structure... which was my point. didn't you get it? meanwhile, i can generate the new files _myself_ -- without the hassle of an obtuse workflow -- and host a library that _does_ have consistency, with files up and available as soon as they're fixed. > YOU need to do the work > if it is something you feel needs to be done. i don't care if project gutenberg's e-texts have their inconsistencies removed or not. i _do_ want a library that's free of inconsistencies, but i anticipate i will have to remove them myself. and i have no issues with doing that, as i have said. this is completely different, however, from drawing your attention to the fact of these inconsistencies, and raising your awareness of troubles they cause. in other words, i am doing y'all a great big favor by pointing out a deficiency in your output that could be corrected with a minimum of effort on your part, but would _greatly_ increase the value of your output. the only problem is, y'all would rather take offense than take a simple look at a problem in your methods. but again, if i am wrong on this, and the whitewashers will implement wholesale changes to get consistency, and make a commitment to ensure future consistency, then i _certainly_ hope someone will say that directly... -bowerbird

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re: !@!Re: [gutvol-d] blah blah blog
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 03 Feb '06

03 Feb '06

walter said: > vapourware call it whatever you want, walter. i call it "banana-cream"... -bowerbird

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re: !@!Re: [gutvol-d] blah blah blog
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 03 Feb '06

03 Feb '06

michael said: > However, my response is NOT in jest, > we will be only to happy to help, > as with all such suggested projects. let me focus on this constructive point, and get to the rest of your reply later... last i heard, your whitewashers want to move files to the new directory structure when they do any corrections to 'em, thus can't update tons of files in one fell swoop. if that has changed, do please let me know. besides, if there's no commitment to make new files consistent, there isn't that much point to making the older ones consistent. (you stop a spill before cleaning the mess.) but if that has changed too, please tell me. i believe you are open to change, michael. i don't believe that your whitewashers are. but again, if i'm wrong, just let me know... i first made these points when you were celebrating the 10,000 e-texts plateau. you will be at 20,000 before you know it, with the mess twice as big as it was then. i expect in 3 years it'll be twice as big again. -bowerbird

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