- gutvol-d - lists.pglaf.org

re: [gutvol-d] on the issue of hand-crafted versus computer-generated.html versions
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 30 Sep '05

30 Sep '05

michael said: > http://www.pgdp.net aargh! shows how long it's been since i logged in over there. sorry! > Do you have a pointer to this exchange? nope, not at hand. > I searched for posts from Juliet containing > the word "discourage" and didn't find it. search my messages for "text-to-html" and you should be more likely to find it, i'd say... if you can't locate it, let me know; i'll find it... i'd say it was about the time i took my sabbatical before my _current_ vacation from the d.p. forums -- which, by the way, i'm finding very pleasant, and i'm sure that all of you are enjoying the break too -- so that would mean a post shortly before my 128th. my current post-counter is 256, so you can gauge. (i always take a break when i get to a power-of-2; next time i enter, i'll make 256 posts before i leave. kinda scary to think of, isn't it? yeah, for me too.) -bowerbird

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re: [gutvol-d] That bird guy
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 30 Sep '05

30 Sep '05

ah yes, the call for banning. that brings back memories too. you all say, "show us some examples", as if you were _daring_ me to do so... but when i say, "ok, i'll give you examples", then you want to ban me. convenient, eh? censorship is a tool of fascists. are you fascists? just a minute ago, jared was telling us how he will listen to people who might have a better idea, and now you are talking about banning me. ironic, eh? -bowerbird

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re: [gutvol-d] on the issue of hand-crafted versus computer-generated .html versions
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 30 Sep '05

30 Sep '05

i said: > you tarking naugshlocks ahh, brings back memories! the "tarking naugschlocks". did you ever get a translation for that? go try babblefish! -bowerbird

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re: [gutvol-d] on the issue of hand-crafted versus computer-generated .html versions
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 30 Sep '05

30 Sep '05

aaron said: > You are assuming that all of the typographic information > from the html files will be thrown out. I dare say > you are mistaken. no. i'm "assuming" that the "old" .html file will be moved to the "old" folder, which is where i found it. > And in true Bowerbird fashion, > you never considered for a moment > that she might have a point. how do you know what i "never considered for a moment"? how can you say such a thing? and _of_course_ what i said was "discouraging". when you tell someone they are wasting their time, it's obvious, isn't it?, that that will be "discouraging". the whole point of _telling_ them is to _discourage_ them. the question is whether or not it actually _is_ a waste of time. if -- in reality -- it _is_ a waste of time, then you are being a _good_friend_ to the person by informing them of that reality. and i explained, giving good reasons, why it was a waste of time. it was the same explanation that i just gave here, which is that idiosyncratic files can't be leveraged, so they'll later be discarded. and that is exactly what happened to the .html file for #16663. it's been placed aside, replaced by a computer-generated version. so any time spent hand-generating that .html file was _wasted_... juliet had to "rebuke" me because she had no counterargument. i was right. she knew it, and had no response but to defame me. i let her know, backchannel, never to scapegoat me again like that. now, if you must, consider me the "bad guy" for trying to tell people that they were wasting their time by hand-generating .html versions. but i was telling them _the_truth_; the facts have already proven that. to my mind, the person (and the overall system) who would have me "be quiet, because i am discouraging volunteers" is the real "bad guy". it seems -- to me anyway -- to be immoral to waste people's time with an inefficient system when they are _volunteering_ that time. if you are paying them, fine, but if they are volunteering, i believe that you have some kind of moral obligation to use their time well. -bowerbird

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re: [gutvol-d] on the issue of hand-crafted versus computer-generated .html versions
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 30 Sep '05

30 Sep '05

jared said: > Well, BB, that "inefficient system" you speak of, > works just fine for everybody else that I know :) great. glad you're happy with it. :+) everyone i admire strives for constant improvement, and doesn't mind if they get constructive criticism... is that you? i'm not so sure. and it was because of people just like you, who wanted to shout me down without even listening to what i had to say, that i asked "why is it again that i wanted to help here?", and came up with no convincing answer, and thus decided i'd leave without helping. when i'm away from you, i remember that the reason i want to help you is because i have an abiding love for electronic-books, and want them to succeed out in the world, because global 24/7 access to knowledge just might save the humans from extinction. and that abiding love makes me come back and try it again. and then i run into people like you... > So, you're pretty much out of luck. me? i think not. you're the ones losing out. but hey, it's your time and energy, to waste as you see fit. i'm just having fun watching... > WE are all volunteers here working on the books, > but so are the people behind the scenes like Marcello, > Aaron and Mike Hart. it's funny how you call him "mike" hart. > Yes, it's difficult to get people to work together sometimes. well, i ain't trying to get you to "work together" with me. and i don't particularly want to "work together" with you. i have some knowledge you would find useful, if you'd listen. but if you don't want to listen, it's no real skin off my nose... > Research on what the term "compromise" means > and you'll understand why we are able to work together > despite differences of opinion. You give some, you take some. sounds wonderful. have at it. i'm interested in electronic-books, not joining with your cult, so i'll just pick up the books after you're done preparing them, and move them on to an increased state of usefulness myself... > I'm not always going to get my way with regard to > how I think things should be done with regard to > how to do my post-processing, but it never hurts to > ask the opinion of others who have done the same work > to get their input on how I should do it. Yes, i don't have to > take their advice, but I definately do listen to any and all opinions. i don't think so. or you wouldn't be trying to shout me down. but -- unlike the past -- i'm not going to let your nastiness and the nastiness of your colleagues interrupt me this time. i'm just gonna keep posting examples that prove my pudding. and this listserve? i don't much need it any longer. because i'm not trying to "preview" my system to you guys any more. i'm taking it out into the world, so they can taste the pudding. -bowerbird

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Posting for List
by BunnyCAW＠aol.com 30 Sep '05

30 Sep '05

I'm afraid I've stumbled into the wrong spot here. I thought that this was a spot for newbie questions such as what format to use, if illustrations should be scanned and included with the text, etc. It seems you are all experienced proof-readers and/or folks who have submitted ebooks already. Where would I direct such questions? Catherine Waters

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re: [gutvol-d] A Picture Says More Than 10,000 Words
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 30 Sep '05

30 Sep '05

jared said: > WHAHAHA!! Good one, Marcello ;) > that does look like BB, or at least > what I imagine him to be like, lol. > And don't take it down, it's too funny :-P well, it doesn't much look like me. but it is me. and i've had it up for many years now, maybe 3, which you can tell by doing f.t.p. to the website, so marcello won't be "taking it down" any time... -bowerbird

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A Picture Says More Than 10,000 Words
by Marcello Perathoner 30 Sep '05

30 Sep '05

Especially this picture: http://users.aol.com/morasch/bowerbird_intelligentleman.gif (No use taking it down, I snipped a copy :-) -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster(a)gutenberg.org

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re: [gutvol-d] on the issue of hand-crafted versus computer-generated .html versions
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 30 Sep '05

30 Sep '05

josh said: > You, sir, have just crossed the line. yeah right. > Juliet, however, is the most even tempered, > nice, moderate, polite, and wonderful person > I've ever met on the Internet. yeah, when i met her in person, she was nice too. and i said that her "rebuke" was atypical of her... shows you that even "the most wonderful person" can have a bad day. i didn't hold it against her. i just told her not to do it again. and he hasn't. on the contrary, since then she has stepped in and told some people who were getting nasty with me that it doesn't work like that over there. > She only stopped you from disparaging > the efforts of hard-working volunteers at DP. "disparaging". that sounds familiar. maybe look up that term, michael... interpreting "you are wasting your time doing that" as "disparaging the efforts" of a person is an error. if i didn't value the time and energy of that person, i wouldn't bother telling them of their inefficiency... to me, allowing people to waste their time by doing work that is only going to have to be redone later is the most disparaging way you can treat their efforts. i objected to that spin, one that scapegoated me by misinterpreting my words. which is an error that you, sir, have just repeated. talk about "crossing a line"... > All you did at DP was tell us we were "doing it wrong." and i went into detail giving you good reasons why. and i would have given you even more good reasons, and continued to tell you how to improve workflows, except i decided why should i help people who abuse me? i couldn't come up with one single reason, and i still can't. and indeed, when i finally _do_ release tools you could use, i will hobble them with my 4:20 system. once every 4 hours, the tool will work for 20 minutes, and then go back to sleep. 4 hours later, it'll come alive again, for another 20 minutes... that way you'll know that it works, but you won't overdo it... > bowerbird, you are a slimeball and an evil, frustrated little man. > And the fact that you DARE to turn your filthly mouth against > Juliet only comfirms that better than ANYTHING I could say. you underestimate yourself. what you just said says quite a bit. it says quite a bit about you... at any rate, i wonder if juliet finds your "defense" of her -- as if i was attacking her; i just said what happened -- to be "charming". or maybe it simply embarrasses her. -bowerbird

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re: [gutvol-d] Felix Holt copyright ?
by Bowerbird＠aol.com 30 Sep '05

30 Sep '05

karen said: > Felix Holt is available at <http://www.princeton.edu/~batke/eliot/holt/> , > but as a folder of individual HTML files, one for each chapter. > Bastards. easy now. > It's impossible to download the HTML > and convert to a PDA-friendly format > without a LOT of work. why? there are batch download programs, and tools that will stitch together .html files. shouldn't take much work to automate it all. > They're protecting their precious little digitization project. well, they paid a lot of money to have that markup done, so i guess they don't feel they can give it away for free... but for those of us using a plain-text format as "master", it's enough that they've given us the text, all by itself... that's one of the benefits of this nice type of "master"... -bowerbird

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