Re: [gutvol-d] Dear Jon and Bowerbird
--- Joshua Hutchinson <joshua@hutchinson.net> wrote:
... snip ...
I agree wholeheartedly with David. The topics under discussion have almost never been the problem. It is the person(s) involved in the discussions that has been the problem. Remove the problem, not the discussions.
And we do need to have a wide range of topics. For instance, I'm working on TEI, which I think is of vital importance to the future of PG (some may disagree). Discussions of TEI lead naturally into discussions of Unicode, graphic image formats, CSS, and other markup formats.
There are quite a few of us who would find it interesting to talk about these topics on gutvol-d if we knew that it wouldn't descend into pointless mudslinging within a day. I personally know of at least five DP volunteers who no longer follow gutvol-d because of the tone of recent posts. -- Jon Ingram __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
Why not create PG forums? On 5/17/05, Jonathan Ingram <jonathan_ingram@yahoo.com> wrote:
... snip ...
I agree wholeheartedly with David. The topics under discussion have almost never been the problem. It is the person(s) involved in the discussions
--- Joshua Hutchinson <joshua@hutchinson.net> wrote: that
has been the problem. Remove the problem, not the discussions.
And we do need to have a wide range of topics. For instance, I'm working on TEI, which I think is of vital importance to the future of PG (some may disagree). Discussions of TEI lead naturally into discussions of Unicode, graphic image formats, CSS, and other markup formats.
There are quite a few of us who would find it interesting to talk about these topics on gutvol-d if we knew that it wouldn't descend into pointless mudslinging within a day. I personally know of at least five DP volunteers who no longer follow gutvol-d because of the tone of recent posts.
-- Jon Ingram
__________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail _______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/listinfo.cgi/gutvol-d
-- Joseph R. Gruber joseph.gruber@gmail.com
--- "Joseph R. Gruber" <joseph.gruber@gmail.com> wrote:
Why not create PG forums?
We just tend to use the DP forums... you're welcome to come and join us :). -- Jon Ingram __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
On Tuesday 17 May 2005 02:36 pm, Jonathan Ingram wrote:
--- "Joseph R. Gruber" <joseph.gruber@gmail.com> wrote:
Why not create PG forums?
We just tend to use the DP forums... you're welcome to come and join us :).
Since DP and PG have related but usually separate concerns, it would be of benefit for PG to have its own forums where those can be given focus. [Yes, I changed the Subject mid-thread, since the subject changed.]
On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 06:05:23PM -0400, D Garcia wrote:
On Tuesday 17 May 2005 02:36 pm, Jonathan Ingram wrote:
--- "Joseph R. Gruber" <joseph.gruber@gmail.com> wrote:
Why not create PG forums?
We just tend to use the DP forums... you're welcome to come and join us :).
Since DP and PG have related but usually separate concerns, it would be of benefit for PG to have its own forums where those can be given focus.
You mean we should have BBS types of stuff, rather than just a mailing list? Or, are you saying that the gutvol-d (et al.) is a good complement to the DP forums? I must be looking in the wrong places when I visit the DP forums. Maybe you need to keep on top of them to be useful, since I seem to mostly find older threads, not the active ones. But I'd love to track a few active ones...better go looking some more. -- Greg
Greg Newby wrote:
I must be looking in the wrong places when I visit the DP forums. Maybe you need to keep on top of them to be useful, since I seem to mostly find older threads, not the active ones. But I'd love to track a few active ones...better go looking some more.
You need to be a registered user to be able to read most of the DP Forum content. You can register at DP here: http://www.pgdp.net Once registered, the Forums are here: http://www.pgdp.net/phpBB2 There already is a Project Gutenberg Forum for those interested in discussing PG issues. If you think you have a registered account, but a dog has eaten the password, you can email dphelp <at> pgdp.net & someone will help you extract it from the dog. Cheers, P -- Help digitise public domain books: Distributed Proofreaders: http://www.pgdp.net "Preserving history one page at a time." Set free dead-tree books: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/servalan
PG had a forum-like Volunteers' Board at http://promo.net/pg/vol/wwwboard/ but it has become inactive and was officially discontinued on November 28, 2003 The archives are still available at the same address. Carlo
On Wed, May 18, 2005 at 08:40:31AM +0200, Carlo Traverso wrote:
PG had a forum-like Volunteers' Board at http://promo.net/pg/vol/wwwboard/ but it has become inactive and was officially discontinued on November 28, 2003
The archives are still available at the same address.
I can't recommend emulating it; at least, not _simply_ emulating it. The rules of the board were that "This Board is for posting any question or information about how to create Project Gutenberg E-Texts." and "Off-topic subjects include anything that is NOT about creating PG e-texts,". I moderated it ruthlessly; personal insults, opinion, advocacy, posts from clueless newbies who thought they were gurus, and indeed anything that did not fit the moderation parameters comfortably just went to the Big Bit-Bucket In The Sky without a second thought. It was a place where newcomers could browse or ask questions and make contact -- with me, if no-one else -- and try to get their heads around what PG was. Remember, PG was very opaque before that: the _only_ two-way communication was private mail. Then the Board and gutvol-d started up, and quickly settled into a pattern: the Board was the shopfront-window for passers-by who might be interested in walking in; gutvol-d was the back-room for the regulars. And please note, by "regulars" I mean people who were actually contributing to PG, who knew what they were talking about from experience, and who had a stake in the outcome. Monday-morning Quarterbacks weren't really in evidence. The Board had value in hooking people up with useful work, and with answering newbie questions, and it did good. Nowadays, however, people can find useful work to do all the time at DP, and all the newbie questions are answered in the FAQ, which was largely comprised of questions that had been asked on the Board. Its functions had become obsolete, and an attempt to revive it would, I think, be futile. jim
Jon Ingram wrote:
Joshua Hutchinson wrote:
... For instance, I'm working on TEI, which I think is of vital importance to the future of PG (some may disagree). Discussions of TEI lead naturally into discussions of Unicode, graphic image formats, CSS, and other markup formats.
There are quite a few of us who would find it interesting to talk about these topics on gutvol-d if we knew that it wouldn't descend into pointless mudslinging within a day.
Two issues brought up in the above comments: 1) PGTEI -- I agree with Josh about the vital importance of PGTEI to the future of PG, DP, and other similar structured digital text projects. As far as I am concerned, this is the core technology for the future of public domain text digitization. From my fairly coarse (not detailed) look at the PGTEI 0.3, I am quite impressed -- and excited -- with how it is progressing. Btw Josh, has any "formal" working group been put together to continue with PGTEI development? Or is it mostly Marcello and you? Is there a dedicated PGTEI mailing list or forum anywhere? 2) Where can we discuss topics of a future-technical-development nature, of which PGTEI is one of them? As I noted in a prior reply (a sort of "hindsight is 20-20" message), I think that discussion of such fairly technical and futuristic topics should NOT be done on gutvol-d, which I think needs to be reserved for "talking shop" and "general help" topics by PG's volunteers -- to discuss the "here and now" of PG's activities. I've been perusing (catching up on) the various forums at DP's site and it does not appear there's a forum which would be a good match for PGTEI and other future-tech-development topics. There is the DP forum "Future Features", but this appears dedicated primarily to suggesting and discussing new features of the DP system, so it has a more general, and more proofing-level focus. Topics such as PGTEI are more "under-the-hood" and fundamental in nature. So, assuming enough others agree with my assessment, where should the future-tech-development group/forum be placed (at lists.pglaf.org or as a DP forum), and what to call it? ***** Now to discuss a somewhat related point, and one I probably need to post to the appropriate DP forum since it is about the DP forums. But I'll mention it here as well since it is germane to any discussion of where to host a proposed group/forum. DP's forum system has a lot of good features, but it also has problems that I think inhibit participation by some people (including yours truly). Because many of us have to monitor a large number of groups/ forums/blogs all over the Internet, we prefer to have all new updates centralized and sent to us. Mailing lists are excellent in that any new messages are sent to us via email, which we process in one place in our email client, and which we can save offline in the format of our choice (e.g., I subscribe to 50+ mailing lists/groups, and I don't have to visit 50 different sites with 50 different interfaces to look for any updates.) Also, RSS syndication has become the rage for the same reason -- it is a very convenient way for end-users to be keep updated on new community content (such as blogs and DP-like community forums) without having to laboriously visit a large number of sites, each of which has their own way of organizing the community content. Thus, I hope that the DP forums will implement an RSS feed for each of its forums, for those of us who wish to keep updated on discussion. (It does appear possible to add RSS feeds to phpbb, at least from a cursory Google search I just did.) Jon Noring
Jon Noring wrote:
Btw Josh, has any "formal" working group been put together to continue with PGTEI development? Or is it mostly Marcello and you? Is there a dedicated PGTEI mailing list or forum anywhere?
No. But we will consider input from anybody.
2) Where can we discuss topics of a future-technical-development nature, of which PGTEI is one of them?
As I noted in a prior reply (a sort of "hindsight is 20-20" message), I think that discussion of such fairly technical and futuristic topics should NOT be done on gutvol-d, which I think needs to be reserved for "talking shop" and "general help" topics by PG's volunteers -- to discuss the "here and now" of PG's activities.
gutvol-p (provided <person> is put under moderation)
Thus, I hope that the DP forums will implement an RSS feed for each of its forums, for those of us who wish to keep updated on discussion. (It does appear possible to add RSS feeds to phpbb, at least from a cursory Google search I just did.)
I second that. I'm not a regular DP forum member because I hate the software. -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org
Marcello wrote:
Jon Noring wrote:
Btw Josh, has any "formal" working group been put together to continue with PGTEI development? Or is it mostly Marcello and you? Is there a dedicated PGTEI mailing list or forum anywhere?
No. But we will consider input from anybody.
Where again is the site hosting the latest PGTEI documents (and DTD if one has been put together)? (This request is not only for me, but for others interested in PGTEI.) I also invite an announcement of the latest PGTEI draft version to The eBook Community ('ebook-community') and 'xml-ebook', both at YahooGroups.
Thus, I hope that the DP forums will implement an RSS feed for each of its forums, for those of us who wish to keep updated on discussion. (It does appear possible to add RSS feeds to phpbb, at least from a cursory Google search I just did.)
I second that. I'm not a regular DP forum member because I hate the software.
Well, I guess I'm not the only one. I just posted a similar "plea" on DP's 'General' forum asking for RSS syndication of their forums, and Jon Ingram immediately replied in support. So that's three of us... DP is definitely fast moving and very active (which is not seen if one only monitors gutvol-*), and RSS syndication of its several forums will benefit a lot of people who will be able to more easily keep abreast of new developments. Jon Noring
Jon Noring wrote:
Where again is the site hosting the latest PGTEI documents (and DTD if one has been put together)? (This request is not only for me, but for others interested in PGTEI.)
Start at: http://www.gutenberg.org/tei/ -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org
On 17 May 2005, at 22:52, Marcello Perathoner wrote:
Jon Noring wrote:
Where again is the site hosting the latest PGTEI documents (and DTD if one has been put together)? (This request is not only for me, but for others interested in PGTEI.)
Start at:
The other day there was a flurry of PGTEIization at Distributed Proofreaders. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to host the results at http://www.gutenberg.org/tei/ too. -- branko collin collin@xs4all.nl
Branko Collin wrote:
On 17 May 2005, at 22:52, Marcello Perathoner wrote:
Jon Noring wrote:
Where again is the site hosting the latest PGTEI documents (and DTD if one has been put together)? (This request is not only for me, but for others interested in PGTEI.)
Start at:
The other day there was a flurry of PGTEIization at Distributed Proofreaders. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to host the results at http://www.gutenberg.org/tei/ too.
I have some extra space on the pglaf.org server now. After the DP roll-out, I'm gonna bring up the TEI subject again and I'll have plenty of space to have lots of examples and tests (instead of struggling to fit everything with the 10mb my ISP gave me). I don't want to get the ball rolling on this right now, because of the DP stuff. JHutch PS I promise I won't "pull a bowerbird" and never actually produce the files I'm talking about!
Branko Collin wrote:
Where again is the site hosting the latest PGTEI documents (and DTD if one has been put together)? (This request is not only for me, but for others interested in PGTEI.)
Start at:
The other day there was a flurry of PGTEIization at Distributed Proofreaders. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to host the results at http://www.gutenberg.org/tei/ too.
I'd prefer to host only milestone documents and not ongoing discussions on the web site. That said, where are the results of that digiTEIzation, so I can take a look? -- Marcello Perathoner webmaster@gutenberg.org
On 18 May 2005, at 9:32, Marcello Perathoner wrote:
Branko Collin wrote:
The other day there was a flurry of PGTEIization at Distributed Proofreaders. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to host the results at http://www.gutenberg.org/tei/ too.
I'd prefer to host only milestone documents and not ongoing discussions on the web site.
That said, where are the results of that digiTEIzation, so I can take a look?
See <http://www.pgdp.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14719>. I don't know if you need to log in. -- branko collin collin@xs4all.nl
participants (11)
-
Branko Collin -
Carlo Traverso -
D Garcia -
Greg Newby -
Jim Tinsley -
Jon Noring -
Jonathan Ingram -
Joseph R. Gruber -
Joshua Hutchinson -
Marcello Perathoner -
Pauline