james said:
I am interested in trying out your tool.
cool. let's mount it as a demo project.
I'm currently working on a book that has a special meaning to me but which is hell to format.
ok.
i'll check it out.
I've more or less committed myself to doing family tree tables using ASCII text.
i'd suggest doing them as text _and_ images, and putting both in the book, as a fall-back... text can be copied; images preserve the look.
There are a LOT of these in the book. I'd need some way to indicate that these should be surrounded by "pre" tags in the HTML.
that's easy enough to do.
Second, I need to have some illustrations. How would your tool handle those?
with simplicity, grace, and elegance, of course. ;+)
My understanding of your ideas is that I can make a file with some simple markup and generate many different formats from that.
you understand correctly.
I used the HTML generator in guiguts for my PG submissions so far. I'm not entirely happy with it, especially the way it uses "span" tags to indicate indented text. I end up going through and replacing these with "blockquotes". The style sheet guiguts gives me is good for HTML but needs to be tweaked to produce a good Kindle book. And of course once I've generated my HTML I now have two files to correct.
i hear everything you're saying.
Also, if the book has multiple levels of headings, how would you deal with that?
you simply indicate the level of the heading by the number of blank lines preceding it... for instance:
h1 heading = 14 blank lines preceding h2 heading = 12 blank lines preceding h3 heading = 10 blank lines preceding h4 heading = 8 blank lines preceding h5 heading = 6 blank lines preceding h6 heading = 4 blank lines preceding
or, if you prefer:
h1 heading = 9 blank lines preceding h2 heading = 8 blank lines preceding h3 heading = 7 blank lines preceding h4 heading = 6 blank lines preceding h5 heading = 5 blank lines preceding h6 heading = 4 blank lines preceding
note it's the _relative_ number that counts. (the absolute number merely determines how much vertical space the header uses when the book is output in .pdf format... some designers like to put it way down.) the program creates a nice _outline-style_ indented list of the headings for you, and keeps track of any change that happens, so once you've determined the outline is right, you can pretty much stop thinking about it. (if you've already used the h1-h6 terms, you can just do a global replace on them. if you like, you can _leave_in_ the h1-h6 terms, in addition to the blank lines, and wait to take them out until you "go final".) *** so i'll mount the scans. send me the text, and i'll incorporate it into the public demo. however... ...here comes the bad news... it might well be the case that what you want is impossible. because the kindle can't do it. is _incapable_ of doing it. not just kindle, but _any_ screen that's "too small" (e.g., a phone). for instance, most of the family trees that you gave as examples in your december 18th post _won't_ work -- dependably -- in _any_ system.
http://lists.pglaf.org/mailman/private/gutvol-d/2011-December/008590.html not as text, anyway. you can "fool yourself" into thinking they work, by setting the text-size down to a small level... but if you want a test, do the opposite instead: set the text-size to its biggest level, and then see how many characters fit on a kindle screen. you will then be tempted to say something like "well, as long as the text is a reasonable size..." but again, that's just fooling yourself, because if you ask a 50-year-old person, you might get a totally different answer m a 20-year-old as to what text-size constitutes "a reasonable size"... and your problem is worse than the "poetry" one, because your lines, if split, _become_gibberish_. so you are going to have disaster. perhaps not all the time, on all of your trees. but sometimes. and you need to face that fact before you start, or you're only gonna be disappointed later... so, if you wanna work with me, send me the text. -bowerbird
Bowerbird, I agree with ASCII family trees for plain text, images for web page and Kindle. I'm well aware of the limitations of the Kindle. Images should be OK. The family trees are not that compelling. If the images are too small to make out on the Kindle the customer can view them on a PC or Mac or more likely just ignore them. Does your tool support crappy line art for text, pictures for other formatting? How do you specify that? It will take me a LONG time to finish this text. I'm using archive.org's text file and I use Jedit and guiguts to get it in shape, one page at a time. It is by far the most challenging book I've ever done. However, if a work in progress is useful to you I put the very latest at this URL every night: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8919415/AStudyOfTheBhagavataPurana.txt As for automatically generating a TOC, that would have been useful to me on my two previous texts in which the original had no TOC. This book has a TOC that I want to preserve. I understood PDF is a possible output. I have published a book on Lulu.com in Crown Quarto format where I had to submit a PDF of those dimensions: http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/make-your-own-sugar-activities/1299555... It might be nice to have the option to reissue old books on Lulu. I don't know if I'd sell many. I don't get the profits from the book I wrote, so I don't know how it's selling. The three books I've donated so far plus this current one might make nice reprints. James Simmons On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 1:43 PM, <Bowerbird@aol.com> wrote:
james said:
I am interested in trying out your tool.
cool. let's mount it as a demo project.
I'm currently working on a book that has a special meaning to me but which is hell to format.
ok.
i'll check it out.
I've more or less committed myself to doing family tree tables using ASCII text.
i'd suggest doing them as text _and_ images, and putting both in the book, as a fall-back... text can be copied; images preserve the look.
There are a LOT of these in the book. I'd need some way to indicate that these should be surrounded by "pre" tags in the HTML.
that's easy enough to do.
Second, I need to have some illustrations. How would your tool handle those?
with simplicity, grace, and elegance, of course. ;+)
My understanding of your ideas is that I can make a file with some simple markup and generate many different formats from that.
you understand correctly.
I used the HTML generator in guiguts for my PG submissions so far. I'm not entirely happy with it, especially the way it uses "span" tags to indicate indented text. I end up going through and replacing these with "blockquotes". The style sheet guiguts gives me is good for HTML but needs to be tweaked to produce a good Kindle book. And of course once I've generated my HTML I now have two files to correct.
i hear everything you're saying.
Also, if the book has multiple levels of headings, how would you deal with that?
you simply indicate the level of the heading by the number of blank lines preceding it...
for instance:
h1 heading = 14 blank lines preceding h2 heading = 12 blank lines preceding h3 heading = 10 blank lines preceding h4 heading = 8 blank lines preceding h5 heading = 6 blank lines preceding h6 heading = 4 blank lines preceding
or, if you prefer:
h1 heading = 9 blank lines preceding h2 heading = 8 blank lines preceding h3 heading = 7 blank lines preceding h4 heading = 6 blank lines preceding h5 heading = 5 blank lines preceding h6 heading = 4 blank lines preceding
note it's the _relative_ number that counts.
(the absolute number merely determines how much vertical space the header uses when the book is output in .pdf format... some designers like to put it way down.)
the program creates a nice _outline-style_ indented list of the headings for you, and keeps track of any change that happens, so once you've determined the outline is right, you can pretty much stop thinking about it.
(if you've already used the h1-h6 terms, you can just do a global replace on them. if you like, you can _leave_in_ the h1-h6 terms, in addition to the blank lines, and wait to take them out until you "go final".)
***
so i'll mount the scans. send me the text, and i'll incorporate it into the public demo.
however...
...here comes the bad news...
it might well be the case that what you want is impossible. because the kindle can't do it. is _incapable_ of doing it. not just kindle, but _any_ screen that's "too small" (e.g., a phone).
for instance, most of the family trees that you gave as examples in your december 18th post _won't_ work -- dependably -- in _any_ system.
http://lists.pglaf.org/mailman/private/gutvol-d/2011-December/008590.html
not as text, anyway.
you can "fool yourself" into thinking they work, by setting the text-size down to a small level...
but if you want a test, do the opposite instead: set the text-size to its biggest level, and then see how many characters fit on a kindle screen.
you will then be tempted to say something like "well, as long as the text is a reasonable size..."
but again, that's just fooling yourself, because if you ask a 50-year-old person, you might get a totally different answer m a 20-year-old as to what text-size constitutes "a reasonable size"...
and your problem is worse than the "poetry" one, because your lines, if split, _become_gibberish_.
so you are going to have disaster. perhaps not all the time, on all of your trees. but sometimes.
and you need to face that fact before you start, or you're only gonna be disappointed later...
so, if you wanna work with me, send me the text.
-bowerbird
_______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/mailman/listinfo/gutvol-d
Jim, in lines like this: ______________ = 8,57,142 6/7 Deva years. I'd suggest using hyphens, not underscores. If you're not careful in replacing double underscores with </i>, you'll end up with </i>'s where not intended. I don't know how far along you are in the book, but I'd also strongly recommend that you run Gutcheck on your text file. (Jeebies and Gutspell, too, just for thoroughness.) http://gutcheck.sourceforge.net/etc.html (Ditto for Paul Flo Williams, if he's watching this thread.) All three work in Windows and *nix. Al -----Original Message----- From: gutvol-d-bounces@lists.pglaf.org [mailto:gutvol-d-bounces@lists.pglaf.org] On Behalf Of James Simmons Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 1:02 PM To: Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion Cc: bowerbird@aol.com Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] book of james -- 001 Bowerbird, I agree with ASCII family trees for plain text, images for web page and Kindle. I'm well aware of the limitations of the Kindle. Images should be OK. The family trees are not that compelling. If the images are too small to make out on the Kindle the customer can view them on a PC or Mac or more likely just ignore them. Does your tool support crappy line art for text, pictures for other formatting? How do you specify that? It will take me a LONG time to finish this text. I'm using archive.org's text file and I use Jedit and guiguts to get it in shape, one page at a time. It is by far the most challenging book I've ever done. However, if a work in progress is useful to you I put the very latest at this URL every night: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8919415/AStudyOfTheBhagavataPurana.txt As for automatically generating a TOC, that would have been useful to me on my two previous texts in which the original had no TOC. This book has a TOC that I want to preserve. I understood PDF is a possible output. I have published a book on Lulu.com in Crown Quarto format where I had to submit a PDF of those dimensions: http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/make-your-own-sugar-activities/1 2995552?productTrackingContext=search_results/search_shelf/center/1 It might be nice to have the option to reissue old books on Lulu. I don't know if I'd sell many. I don't get the profits from the book I wrote, so I don't know how it's selling. The three books I've donated so far plus this current one might make nice reprints. James Simmons On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 1:43 PM, <Bowerbird@aol.com> wrote: james said:
I am interested in trying out your tool.
cool. let's mount it as a demo project.
I'm currently working on a book that has a special meaning to me but which is hell to format.
ok.
i'll check it out.
I've more or less committed myself to doing family tree tables using ASCII text.
i'd suggest doing them as text _and_ images, and putting both in the book, as a fall-back... text can be copied; images preserve the look.
There are a LOT of these in the book. I'd need some way to indicate that these should be surrounded by "pre" tags in the HTML.
that's easy enough to do.
Second, I need to have some illustrations. How would your tool handle those?
with simplicity, grace, and elegance, of course. ;+)
My understanding of your ideas is that I can make a file with some simple markup and generate many different formats from that.
you understand correctly.
I used the HTML generator in guiguts for my PG submissions so far. I'm not entirely happy with it, especially the way it uses "span" tags to indicate indented text. I end up going through and replacing these with "blockquotes". The style sheet guiguts gives me is good for HTML but needs to be tweaked to produce a good Kindle book. And of course once I've generated my HTML I now have two files to correct.
i hear everything you're saying.
Also, if the book has multiple levels of headings, how would you deal with that?
you simply indicate the level of the heading by the number of blank lines preceding it... for instance:
h1 heading = 14 blank lines preceding h2 heading = 12 blank lines preceding h3 heading = 10 blank lines preceding h4 heading = 8 blank lines preceding h5 heading = 6 blank lines preceding h6 heading = 4 blank lines preceding
or, if you prefer:
h1 heading = 9 blank lines preceding h2 heading = 8 blank lines preceding h3 heading = 7 blank lines preceding h4 heading = 6 blank lines preceding h5 heading = 5 blank lines preceding h6 heading = 4 blank lines preceding
note it's the _relative_ number that counts. (the absolute number merely determines how much vertical space the header uses when the book is output in .pdf format... some designers like to put it way down.) the program creates a nice _outline-style_ indented list of the headings for you, and keeps track of any change that happens, so once you've determined the outline is right, you can pretty much stop thinking about it. (if you've already used the h1-h6 terms, you can just do a global replace on them. if you like, you can _leave_in_ the h1-h6 terms, in addition to the blank lines, and wait to take them out until you "go final".) *** so i'll mount the scans. send me the text, and i'll incorporate it into the public demo. however... ...here comes the bad news... it might well be the case that what you want is impossible. because the kindle can't do it. is _incapable_ of doing it. not just kindle, but _any_ screen that's "too small" (e.g., a phone). for instance, most of the family trees that you gave as examples in your december 18th post _won't_ work -- dependably -- in _any_ system.
http://lists.pglaf.org/mailman/private/gutvol-d/2011-December/008590.h tml not as text, anyway. you can "fool yourself" into thinking they work, by setting the text-size down to a small level... but if you want a test, do the opposite instead: set the text-size to its biggest level, and then see how many characters fit on a kindle screen. you will then be tempted to say something like "well, as long as the text is a reasonable size..." but again, that's just fooling yourself, because if you ask a 50-year-old person, you might get a totally different answer m a 20-year-old as to what text-size constitutes "a reasonable size"... and your problem is worse than the "poetry" one, because your lines, if split, _become_gibberish_. so you are going to have disaster. perhaps not all the time, on all of your trees. but sometimes. and you need to face that fact before you start, or you're only gonna be disappointed later... so, if you wanna work with me, send me the text. -bowerbird _______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/mailman/listinfo/gutvol-d
Al, Good call on the underscores for totals issue. I'll fix that tonight. I do plan on running gutcheck, jeebies and the rest when I have worked my way through the whole file. I've done some basic paragraph rewrapping, page number removing, etc. all the way through but the real work of correcting is just starting. There are too many obvious errors to fix before I start looking for hidden ones. Gutspell probably could be made to work in Unix if the author supplied a Make file. I can probably figure out how to compile it, but for now I run it under Wine. James Simmons On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Al Haines <ajhaines@shaw.ca> wrote:
Jim, in lines like this:
______________ = 8,57,142 6/7 Deva years.
I'd suggest using hyphens, not underscores. If you're not careful in replacing double underscores with </i>, you'll end up with </i>'s where not intended.
I don't know how far along you are in the book, but I'd also strongly recommend that you run Gutcheck on your text file. (Jeebies and Gutspell, too, just for thoroughness.) http://gutcheck.sourceforge.net/etc.html (Ditto for Paul Flo Williams, if he's watching this thread.) All three work in Windows and *nix.
Al
-----Original Message----- From: gutvol-d-bounces@lists.pglaf.org [mailto:gutvol-d-bounces@lists.pglaf.org] On Behalf Of James Simmons Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 1:02 PM To: Project Gutenberg Volunteer Discussion Cc: bowerbird@aol.com Subject: Re: [gutvol-d] book of james -- 001
Bowerbird,
I agree with ASCII family trees for plain text, images for web page and Kindle. I'm well aware of the limitations of the Kindle. Images should be OK. The family trees are not that compelling. If the images are too small to make out on the Kindle the customer can view them on a PC or Mac or more likely just ignore them. Does your tool support crappy line art for text, pictures for other formatting? How do you specify that?
It will take me a LONG time to finish this text. I'm using archive.org's text file and I use Jedit and guiguts to get it in shape, one page at a time. It is by far the most challenging book I've ever done. However, if a work in progress is useful to you I put the very latest at this URL every night:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8919415/AStudyOfTheBhagavataPurana.txt
As for automatically generating a TOC, that would have been useful to me on my two previous texts in which the original had no TOC. This book has a TOC that I want to preserve.
I understood PDF is a possible output. I have published a book on Lulu.com in Crown Quarto format where I had to submit a PDF of those dimensions:
http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/make-your-own-sugar-activities/1 2995552?productTrackingContext=search_results/search_shelf/center/1
It might be nice to have the option to reissue old books on Lulu. I don't know if I'd sell many. I don't get the profits from the book I wrote, so I don't know how it's selling. The three books I've donated so far plus this current one might make nice reprints.
James Simmons
On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 1:43 PM, <Bowerbird@aol.com> wrote:
james said:
I am interested in trying out your tool.
cool. let's mount it as a demo project.
I'm currently working on a book that has a special meaning to me but which is hell to format.
ok.
i'll check it out.
I've more or less committed myself to doing family tree tables using ASCII text.
i'd suggest doing them as text _and_ images, and putting both in the book, as a fall-back... text can be copied; images preserve the look.
There are a LOT of these in the book. I'd need some way to indicate that these should be surrounded by "pre" tags in the HTML.
that's easy enough to do.
Second, I need to have some illustrations. How would your tool handle those?
with simplicity, grace, and elegance, of course. ;+)
My understanding of your ideas is that I can make a file with some simple markup and generate many different formats from that.
you understand correctly.
I used the HTML generator in guiguts for my PG submissions so far. I'm not entirely happy with it, especially the way it uses "span" tags to indicate indented text. I end up going through and replacing these with "blockquotes". The style sheet guiguts gives me is good for HTML but needs to be tweaked to produce a good Kindle book. And of course once I've generated my HTML I now have two files to correct.
i hear everything you're saying.
Also, if the book has multiple levels of headings, how would you deal with that?
you simply indicate the level of the heading by the number of blank lines preceding it...
for instance:
h1 heading = 14 blank lines preceding h2 heading = 12 blank lines preceding h3 heading = 10 blank lines preceding h4 heading = 8 blank lines preceding h5 heading = 6 blank lines preceding h6 heading = 4 blank lines preceding
or, if you prefer:
h1 heading = 9 blank lines preceding h2 heading = 8 blank lines preceding h3 heading = 7 blank lines preceding h4 heading = 6 blank lines preceding h5 heading = 5 blank lines preceding h6 heading = 4 blank lines preceding
note it's the _relative_ number that counts.
(the absolute number merely determines how much vertical space the header uses when the book is output in .pdf format... some designers like to put it way down.)
the program creates a nice _outline-style_ indented list of the headings for you, and keeps track of any change that happens, so once you've determined the outline is right, you can pretty much stop thinking about it.
(if you've already used the h1-h6 terms, you can just do a global replace on them. if you like, you can _leave_in_ the h1-h6 terms, in addition to the blank lines, and wait to take them out until you "go final".)
***
so i'll mount the scans. send me the text, and i'll incorporate it into the public demo.
however...
...here comes the bad news...
it might well be the case that what you want is impossible. because the kindle can't do it. is _incapable_ of doing it. not just kindle, but _any_ screen that's "too small" (e.g., a phone).
for instance, most of the family trees that you gave as examples in your december 18th post _won't_ work -- dependably -- in _any_ system.
http://lists.pglaf.org/mailman/private/gutvol-d/2011-December/008590.h tml
not as text, anyway.
you can "fool yourself" into thinking they work, by setting the text-size down to a small level...
but if you want a test, do the opposite instead: set the text-size to its biggest level, and then see how many characters fit on a kindle screen.
you will then be tempted to say something like "well, as long as the text is a reasonable size..."
but again, that's just fooling yourself, because if you ask a 50-year-old person, you might get a totally different answer m a 20-year-old as to what text-size constitutes "a reasonable size"...
and your problem is worse than the "poetry" one, because your lines, if split, _become_gibberish_.
so you are going to have disaster. perhaps not all the time, on all of your trees. but sometimes.
and you need to face that fact before you start, or you're only gonna be disappointed later...
so, if you wanna work with me, send me the text.
-bowerbird
_______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/mailman/listinfo/gutvol-d
_______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/mailman/listinfo/gutvol-d
James Simmons wrote:
Gutspell probably could be made to work in Unix if the author supplied a Make file. I can probably figure out how to compile it, but for now I run it under Wine.
gutspell.c includes a Windows/DOS-specific header, process.h, on line 34, so delete that line. Then just type: $ make gutspell (You don't always need a Makefile.)
Paul, Thanks for the tip. I actually did try to compile it, and ran into the process.h error. It never occurred to me I could just delete the line. James Simmons On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 2:19 AM, Paul Flo Williams <paul@frixxon.co.uk>wrote:
James Simmons wrote:
Gutspell probably could be made to work in Unix if the author supplied a Make file. I can probably figure out how to compile it, but for now I
run
it under Wine.
gutspell.c includes a Windows/DOS-specific header, process.h, on line 34, so delete that line.
Then just type:
$ make gutspell
(You don't always need a Makefile.)
_______________________________________________ gutvol-d mailing list gutvol-d@lists.pglaf.org http://lists.pglaf.org/mailman/listinfo/gutvol-d
participants (4)
-
Al Haines -
Bowerbird＠aol.com -
James Simmons -
Paul Flo Williams